The Enzo Thread

[Lad1966]

On 15/04/2024 at 22:13, weller54 said:

A brace for Oliver!!  Brilliant.

I bet his Dad, JR and uncle Bobby were delighted.

 

10 hours ago, Finn Claw II said:

Its the lack of plan B that worries me,  If we go up, I can’t see us staying up with this style of football unless we spend a lot on technical attacking players, a replacement for Ndiddi and at least 2 good defenders   We are not about to spend £100m. 
 

He deserves a crack at the PL if we stay up but we  should be ruthless if after half a season it isn’t working.  We also need to do this managing the finances so paying much less on wages than we have,

 

 

If we get promoted, the squad will be moulded around players that will suit Enzo style.We will have about 7players out of contract, which will need replacing. You are right, we won’t have £££ is spend, but we will need to rely on loans, free transfers and some clever recruitment of young technical players. 

[RumbleFox]

17 hours ago, winteriscoming said:

Neither of those sides have blown a 12+ point lead at the top. 

Tbf, neither of those teams had one to begin with. 

[Clever Fox]

6 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

Tbf, neither of those teams had one to begin with. 

Its so difficult to get a gap in this league, to say that we blew 12 points is embarrassing.

The players mainly should be ashamed of themselves though Enzo is not blameless either.

[Chelmofox]

6 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

Its so difficult to get a gap in this league, to say that we blew 12 points is embarrassing.

The players mainly should be ashamed of themselves though Enzo is not blameless either.

It’s straight forward to lose points 3 games in a row in this league. We still find ourselves 4 points ahead of Leeds.  Most disappointing thing for me is not converting some of these losses into draws. 
 

 

[Clever Fox]

4 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

And yet, we've not fallen apart entirely and may well win the league still. But by all means, focus on shame and embarrassment.

True, And we can just as easily still blow it when it should have been wrapped up by now.

 

 

[Clever Fox]

3 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

It’s straight forward to lose points 3 games in a row in this league. We still find ourselves 4 points ahead of Leeds.  Most disappointing thing for me is not converting some of these losses into draws. 
 

 

Agreed, A few tweaks here and there could have saved us a few extra points.

Thankfully with failings of others we still have it in our own hands.

 

[dr.o.ball]

31 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

Agreed, A few tweaks here and there could have saved us a few extra points.

Thankfully with failings of others we still have it in our own hands.

 

Enzo's not for me but he's the manager so get behind him, other teams have bottled the top spots when the pressure is on so perhaps I'm to harsh

[Clever Fox]

1 minute ago, dr.o.ball said:

Enzo's not for me but he's the manager so get behind him, other teams have bottled the top spots when the pressure is on so perhaps I'm to harsh

I think he's an amazing Coach, just not sure if he has the quality of a top Manager. He needs to be more flexible in his approach, both in Selections and adjustments when things are not working.

If he can find that balance he can go on to be a great Manager.

[Number 6]

19 hours ago, winteriscoming said:

I think had they or anybody else been in charge at the start of the season we’d be up by now. 

Dean Smith finished 5th with a squad which had Grealish, McGinn, Mings, and Abraham in it in 2019. And also had a decent Norwich squad 5th at Christmas as recently as last season.

 

I don't buy that we'd have been promoted at a canter under him at all. It's like people have forgotten Daka on the wing and the 5-3 at Fulham.

[daddylonglegs]

Not making a sub before the 83rd minute where we were being carved open in midfield was absolutely bonkers.

 

Terrible in-game management (again), he's just got away with it this time. 

 

I like the fact that he's passionate & has implemented a style of play (However boring it may be), but as i've said previously i'm not sure I can stomach another season of it 

[trooky]

13 hours ago, BenTheFox said:

Take the game yesterday. If we had Carlos Corberan as our manager and West Brom had Maresca, we'd have been promoted weeks ago and they probably wouldn't be in the play-offs. I hope this helps. 

It's all hypothetical, pointless and not helpful. We can judge Enzo at the season end. 

 

The target was promotion, not to finish the season unbeaten, or with a records point total or to be promoted in March / April.

[BenTheFox]

1 hour ago, Clever Fox said:

I think he's an amazing Coach, just not sure if he has the quality of a top Manager. He needs to be more flexible in his approach, both in Selections and adjustments when things are not working.

If he can find that balance he can go on to be a great Manager.

I'm in this camp. He's clearly a very coach. You don't work for Pep Guardiola if you're not. I'm just not convinced that he's a good manager yet. 

[Ric Flair]

8 hours ago, Number 6 said:

Dean Smith finished 5th with a squad which had Grealish, McGinn, Mings, and Abraham in it in 2019. And also had a decent Norwich squad 5th at Christmas as recently as last season.

 

I don't buy that we'd have been promoted at a canter under him at all. It's like people have forgotten Daka on the wing and the 5-3 at Fulham.

He joined Villa a third of the way through that season when they were 15th. It is true after a very string start they struggled when Grealish was out for a few months. They then went on a run and got 5th.

[whoareyaaa]

8 hours ago, daddylonglegs said:

Not making a sub before the 83rd minute where we were being carved open in midfield was absolutely bonkers.

 

Terrible in-game management (again), he's just got away with it this time. 

 

I like the fact that he's passionate & has implemented a style of play (However boring it may be), but as i've said previously i'm not sure I can stomach another season of it 

Next season I doubt we will be having teams parking the bus for the whole game like we get in the Championship, teams will be coming to play.

[Number 6]

18 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He joined Villa a third of the way through that season when they were 15th. It is true after a very string start they struggled when Grealish was out for a few months. They then went on a run and got 5th.

Fair point, though they were only 4 points off their final finishing position if 5th (incredibly congested table). Looks like he had them at around an 80 point season pace, which is probably only slightly above where they did finish.

[indierich06]

I do think Enzo will (or should have) learned a lot in his first season as a manager, and that will stand him in good stead. But one thing that does worry me is that he never seems that introspective after a match - it's always 'the system is fine, we created enough chances to win, we played well'... but how do we account for the losses and the poor form then? If it's just him backing his players publicly, that's fine - but if he really doesn't think there's anything to improve on, or any ways that HE can improve, or any ways his system can be tweaked to counteract the ways it's been exploited this season, then that's a problem.

 

The style can be a bit dry at times, but that seems like the way football is going more generally at the minute, thanks to Guardiola. I do feel for Enzo in the sense that - by and large - we DO create enough chances to win most games we play, we just don't seem to have the strikers to finish them. Vardy is quite a way past his best, I had high hopes for Iheanacho and Daka in this league, but they've proved they're not up to it and should be moved on IMO. But then it's baffling that Cannon hasn't been given more of a chance, given the performances he put in when he did play.

 

And it begs the question - why didn't we move for a more suitable striker in the summer? We let Leeds strengthen by buying Piroe, while leaving ourselves with strikers who weren't good enough. Piroe's not had an amazing season at Leeds, but you look at a lot of the chances we create and we're crying out for a strong, mobile, skilful finisher, and I don't think Leeds have utilised him well. Maybe we were gambling on the fact that the existing strikers could do the business? But I think a smarter move would have been to sell one or two (Iheanacho and Daka) to get them off the wage bill and fund a replacement.

 

All in all, you can't argue the season hasn't been a success if we go up automatically, as champions or runners up, and Enzo should be given the summer to evolve the team - we're likely losing Ndidi, Iheanacho, Praet, Vestergaard, Vardy, Albrighton, the futures of Yunus, Fatawu and Doyle are all up in the air currently too, and clubs are once again going to be sniffing around at the likes of Dewsbury-Hall. That's about six regular starters and 10 squad players whose futures are uncertain. And all this set to the backdrop of ongoing financial issues and a likely points deduction.

 

We'll likely be odds on to go down next season, especially if we start on -6 or whatever the PL decides - I hope we go back to looking at young players with potential (<£10m), and shrewd experienced players, rather than just throwing money around in a desperate attempt to stay up like Forest have done recently. Build a side for the future, regardless of next season's outcome - the mentality at this club is rotten to the core, it looked like we'd fixed it early in the season, but the fight appears to have gone yet again now we're in the thick of it.

 

TL;DR - Enzo's got his flaws, hopefully he learns from them, if he gets us up he deserves a shot at keeping us there.

[Ricey]

Just been listening to the JJ Watt episode of Stick to Football and it's interesting that he said Burnley have changed their style over the last few weeks. I haven't seen them, so can't say I've noticed.

 

"We definitely held that mentality for quite a while (sticking with the way they played in the Championship) but then we learned that it wasn't going to be successful, so we did have to switch it. Vincent is a first time manager and he's going through the PL for the first time as well. The way that we played in the Championship last season was so successful and dominant, so you think you add players to that and tweak it a little bit and then you go up and try in the PL, but you are coming up against sometimes 1 - 2 billion pound rosters and sometimes you literally don't have the ability...so we did switch it."

 

They have only lost one in 7 since going a bit more direct.

 

Like Burnley we'll have to rebuild our squad next season, but unlike Burnley we haven't dominated the Championship like they did and we may have to sell a couple of our best players to appease PSR.

 

We'd be absolutely crazy to go up and try and play the way we are now. It would be suicide, but there is no doubt in my mind that Enzo will do it. He's said as much in interviews.

[SixtiesFox]

Robbins is just the type of manager we will need next season if we gain promotion. We'll be working with a limited budget and starting with a points deduction. He is a shrewd tactician, doesn't panic, is adaptable and most importantly he gets the best out of the players at his disposal. He dealt impressively with a significant player turnover at Coventry this season which is exactly what we'll be dealing with next term. He comes across as a tough, honest pro and will instill the belief, steel and determination to give us a chance of survival. Enzo's rigid tactics and idealistic philosophies will be ruthlessly exposed as he simply won't have the players to implement his possession based style effectively. 

[HarryDee8]

Hopefully he takes into account saints will need the 3 points more then us. 

 

Hit them on the counter!! They will play a high line 

[Chelmofox]

28 minutes ago, SixtiesFox said:

Robbins is just the type of manager we will need next season if we gain promotion. We'll be working with a limited budget and starting with a points deduction. He is a shrewd tactician, doesn't panic, is adaptable and most importantly he gets the best out of the players at his disposal. He dealt impressively with a significant player turnover at Coventry this season which is exactly what we'll be dealing with next term. He comes across as a tough, honest pro and will instill the belief, steel and determination to give us a chance of survival. Enzo's rigid tactics and idealistic philosophies will be ruthlessly exposed as he simply won't have the players to implement his possession based style effectively. 

He's done a great job at Coventry, but he's been there for many years and been allowed to build his project. If he comes here he's going to be given how many games before he is sacked?

[SixtiesFox]

21 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

He's done a great job at Coventry, but he's been there for many years and been allowed to build his project. If he comes here he's going to be given how many games before he is sacked?

Fair point, but expectations should be tempered next season as a consequence of the mismanagement of the club at board level that has got us into this mess, albeit with a big helping hand from Rodgers. Under the unique circumstances we''ll be facing I'd rather take my chances in the Premier League with Robbins over Enzo any day of the week. Burnley finally adapted to reality by changing their style and going direct to good effect but they may have left it too late. Enzo's intransigence will be his downfall, as we have witnessed with our relegation form recently. I'd love to be proved wrong and we'll get the chance to see him put him to the test, but I fear it will end badly. Realistically our likely relegation next year will be a stepping stone towards a proper rebuild and Robbins has the credentials to engineer that.  

[SafewayFox]

Credit to Enzo, tonight has been one of our best performances since he took over.

 

A key difference, how quickly we play the ball forward.

 

 

[Bryn]

1 minute ago, SafewayFox said:

Credit to Enzo, tonight has been one of our best performances since he took over.

 

A key difference, how quickly we play the ball forward.

 

 

Agreed, even before we took the lead we were moving the ball far more purposefully.

 

If he’s finally realised he has to mix things up there’s a future for him here.

[Messi]

Just now, SafewayFox said:

Credit to Enzo, tonight has been one of our best performances since he took over.

 

A key difference, how quickly we play the ball forward.

 

 

100% - moving the ball forward quicker and I think I’ve seen us play more longer passes or balls over the top tonight than any other game this season - not constantly needing to have too many passes. Credit where it’s due he must have felt the frustrations big time after the Plymouth performance. 

[Bryn]

I think playing KDH as a 10 tonight has made a huge difference as well.