There's now a pattern - The reality is.... We're offensively awful.

[Bordersfox]

4 minutes ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

This in a nutshell sums up LCFC fans and probably football fans in general. It's amazing to win games and be top of the league by miles and there's talk of best football I've ever seen and we will be in Europe soon and Enzo will be Peos successor. 2 tight losses against two of the better teams after a 9 game winning run and suddenly it's all going wrong and we will be mid table. 46 games season we were never ever going to just keep on winning. That was a 0-0 all day long, you can't compensate for a 30 yard screamer, or an amazing save from Meslier to deny KDH. We could be sitting here after two draws very happy and no talk of the performances. We need perspective, before the season if you said we'd be top in November with an 8 point gap to third, everyone would be jizzing themselves. It's a long season strap in for the ride and bloody support the team instead of bastard moaning.

So true Jim.  And it's many of the same 'HMS P1ss the league' folk who HMS p1ss their pants after a couple of tight defeats.  

 

It's fine to criticise your team, of course, it's part of being a fan. But the wild swings from one extreme to the other are just bizarre.  

[Guest Sideshow Faes]

1 hour ago, Joe90lcfc said:

Not having that pal, yes Barcelona were the best ever football team to ever play, and probably there will not be a team better, but boring?? No they were not they were a pleasure to watch every player had his purpose!! Your statement is like “he was the nicest serial killer I have met”.

Being the best and most boring just shouldn’t be in the same sentence! Barcelona were far from boring 

Let's agree to disagree. 

[murphy]

3 hours ago, Joe90lcfc said:

Not having that pal, yes Barcelona were the best ever football team to ever play, and probably there will not be a team better, but boring?? No they were not they were a pleasure to watch every player had his purpose!! Your statement is like “he was the nicest serial killer I have met”.

Being the best and most boring just shouldn’t be in the same sentence! Barcelona were far from boring 

 

All about opinions I suppose, but I'm with sideshow.  Yes Barca had brilliant players, yes they were a great team but tiki taka is deathly dull.  It reminds me of that famous Simpsons soccer parody scene.  I just prefer a bit of blood and thunder.  I prefer risk takers and end to end football played at pace.  

 

I'm probably a football philistine.  I don't even know what an inverted fullback is and I glaze over if someone mentions 'two eights'.  Jumpers for goalposts please.

 

[OntarioFox]

We're a weird fanbase

[Number 6]

We're clearly not offensively awful, and to be honest I expected more frustration in front of goal than we've actually seen so far. Generally we've been successful at breaking down the low blocks - mostly through patience and wearing teams down plus a bit of individual quality. 

 

I would probably like to see us play with a bit more cockiness / swagger. Go out and get the game done first half. I want to see more performances like Burton/Stoke, where we get the early goal, control the game, and finish them off when the chance is there. Neither of those performances were 4-0 wins, but I think we have shown a level of control in games that the likes of Ipswich and Leeds haven't always. Conversely we could probably embrace chaos a little bit more at times in a bid to hurt teams. But we are still a work in progress, and I think we will improve.

[Bazly]

12 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

 

- i know it's not realistic, but to prove that goals scored really isn't the be all and end all;

It's impossible to predict but Ipswich are very leaky, so, all other things remaining equal,  personally i'd take our strong defence against their (slightly superior) goalscoring

It's very true, a good defence is key to providing a platform to go on to win a game. The one position that has been a clear and obvious upgrade over last season is the goalkeeper when we shipped a lot of goals, largely due to Ward's inability to get in the way of shots (goal bound shots were actually twice as likely to go past Ward into the net than they were with the top goalkeepers in the league). I did provide the relative EPL keeper shot stop data for one thread last year. Ward was demonstrably the worst keeper in the league and by some way which makes me wonder why Brenda persisted with him for so long.

The side scored 51 goals last season due mainly to contributions from Maddison and Barnes with the attackers in the team being largely absent. 51 goals would normally be more than enough to stay up in the middle to lower middle of the table. So, yes, you can huff and puff as much as you want seeking to create goals but a strong defence is essential, if the team cannot score goals then it becomes your only hope.

Edited 13 November 2023 by Bazly

[Guest glasgowfox]

We will be much better when we get the Cannon firing 

[Bablemikey]

We're really missing Doyle & Ndidi I think. Our play seems disjointed and incoherent now compared to the fluidity & control we demonstrated when they were playing.

[Stadt]

I think our play is too procedural, players largely stay in their zones and the wingers are often too wide. 
 

If Enzo let the handbrake off we’d be more chaotic but that’s what we need - especially with the individual quality we have.

 

Increase the risk taking rather than trying to score from pristine passing moves all the time.

Edited 13 November 2023 by Stadt
Wank grammar

[ARM1968]

We’re just not offensive enough. 🤣🤣

[justfoxes]

7 hours ago, Bordersfox said:

So true Jim.  And it's many of the same 'HMS P1ss the league' folk who HMS p1ss their pants after a couple of tight defeats.  

 

It's fine to criticise your team, of course, it's part of being a fan. But the wild swings from one extreme to the other are just bizarre.  

Everyone has the right to their own opinion but ffs it’s a bit early to start panicking and going all doom and gloom, what’s next an Enzo out chant or demands from some ?

 

We all knew this would be a tough league we have been described by some as a big day out and ones to try and shoot down in this league and some have given us a half decent game, the time to worry about our football will be around February we’re top at the moment yes on goal difference but we’re top Enzo will sort out our blip over the next fortnight and I can see us get back to playing quality football again !

[justfoxes]

5 hours ago, OntarioFox said:

We're a weird fanbase

Some are Very Very Weird  !!

[Chelmofox]

4 hours ago, Stadt said:

I think our play is too procedural, players largely stay in their zones and the wingers are often too wide. 
 

If Enzo let the handbrake off we’d be more chaotic but that’s what we need - especially with the individual quality we have.

 

Increase the risk taking rather than trying to score from pristine passing moves all the time.

I agree on the whole, but do you think this is being done in the context of coaching the system to the players as they implement different strategies etc around the system? I still think Enzo would rather drop points sticking to the system rather than just 'having a go' (this won't change unless we or he gets into trouble), and currently players do seem a little rigid in the system.  Some of those (like KDH and Fatawu) have definitely toned down their play, and i think this is intentional to ensure players stick in their zones and don't try and do too much or take over another role. Madders would have hated this!!

 

It's not lost on me that Man City hit the ground running in the 2nd half of the season.  I don't want to keep making parallels with them but do wonder as the process gets more and more ingrained, and we potentially re-enforce in January, that Enzo will look to 'release the beast' a little more as he knows players will more instinctively behave better in the system.  

 

The cliche is that its a Marathon, not a sprint. The goal is promotion but to also set the foundations in place for long term success. We still have a good buffer and head start on 3rd place.  I still don't think we can overly judge the system on what we see now as its still a work in process. The problem for Enzo is the football gods don't always play nicely, and a few more poor results and there will be pressure to change things up.

 

[Philkeavo]

I believe in Enzo and the process. My observations are the passing is sometimes too slow and predictable. We have not looked like breaking teams down in the first hour and only when teams get tired in the last 20 minutes do we look really dangerous. We are still (and have been all season) vulnerable to the transition. Teams that are well set up and hold their shape find it relatively comfortable to play against us.

 

For me, it is not the system it is the players. It is no coincidence that our performances and results have dropped a level without the option of Nididi and as each game goes by I feel we are missing Callum Doyle more and more. Justin has done okay mind but he is stop gap on the left side. You need technically gifted players to play Enzoball with pace and purpose. We are still in the driving seat so hope recent result are a blip.

Edited 13 November 2023 by Philkeavo

[Langley]

On 12/11/2023 at 16:56, oz was my hero said:

100%agree with this . As I said in a post yesterday we don't pull their back for around or give them something  extra to think about as we are very regimental  in positions.  Also never understand  a team having everyone back for a corner as its just inviting more players attacking the corner.  Leave 2 out they will leave 3 back.

Couldn't agree more. 

 

Sticking Abdul and Stephy on the wings of the half way line with someone on the centre circle would force at least three or four to come back because one poor corner or caught by the 'keeper and you're instantly at least 3vs3.

[sacreblueits442]

49 minutes ago, Langley said:

Couldn't agree more. 

 

Sticking Abdul and Stephy on the wings of the half way line with someone on the centre circle would force at least three or four to come back because one poor corner or caught by the 'keeper and you're instantly at least 3vs3.

...I  like the idea of not having all our players camped in our box on a corner!!!

  Holding so many high up the pitch would encourage teams even more, as unless we are clearing at the near post, we are still allowing free headers from set pieces.

[Guest Sideshow Faes]

On 13/11/2023 at 12:13, Stadt said:

I think our play is too procedural, players largely stay in their zones and the wingers are often too wide. 
 

If Enzo let the handbrake off we’d be more chaotic but that’s what we need - especially with the individual quality we have.

 

Increase the risk taking rather than trying to score from pristine passing moves all the time.

The idea of our play is that the wingers stay high and wide to try to keep more of their defenders back. Then the wingers take multiple touches to try to draw in two or three players, which then creates space elsewhere. Where is going wrong is we aren't really taking advantage of that by moving the ball quickly into those other areas, partly because most of our opponents are pulling everybody back. The procedural element is intentional, given that football is highly tactical these days. It can be dull, granted, but the passing and positioning is designed to create spaces to attack. 

[Foxaholic ME]

On 13/11/2023 at 16:14, justfoxes said:

Everyone has the right to their own opinion but ffs it’s a bit early to start panicking and going all doom and gloom, what’s next an Enzo out chant or demands from some ?

 

We all knew this would be a tough league we have been described by some as a big day out and ones to try and shoot down in this league and some have given us a half decent game, the time to worry about our football will be around February we’re top at the moment yes on goal difference but we’re top Enzo will sort out our blip over the next fortnight and I can see us get back to playing quality football again !

Biggest  myth out this is a tough league   how often do teams struggle who get relegated   and    nobody seems to mention   that Ipswich are a  Div 1 team .  We have already lost as many as Burnley  who of course after 103 points are flying in the Premier 

[Dan]

1 hour ago, Sideshow Faes said:

The idea of our play is that the wingers stay high and wide to try to keep more of their defenders back. Then the wingers take multiple touches to try to draw in two or three players, which then creates space elsewhere. Where is going wrong is we aren't really taking advantage of that by moving the ball quickly into those other areas, partly because most of our opponents are pulling everybody back. The procedural element is intentional, given that football is highly tactical these days. It can be dull, granted, but the passing and positioning is designed to create spaces to attack. 

The idea makes sense to me, the problem we have is that we're not really getting enough out of the three central attacking players. I think KDH is the only player who has put up acceptable attacking numbers so far.

[VG Fox]

On 13/11/2023 at 10:47, murphy said:

 

All about opinions I suppose, but I'm with sideshow.  Yes Barca had brilliant players, yes they were a great team but tiki taka is deathly dull.  It reminds me of that famous Simpsons soccer parody scene.  I just prefer a bit of blood and thunder.  I prefer risk takers and end to end football played at pace.  

 

I'm probably a football philistine.  I don't even know what an inverted fullback is and I glaze over if someone mentions 'two eights'.  Jumpers for goalposts please.

 

I'm right with you...for me it's fast counter attacking football, sharp passing at pace, strong tackling.... probably because having supported city since the 70's, that's the only way we could play as most of the time we didn't have the players to totally dominate teams in the old 1st division and PL.

[Guest Sideshow Faes]

5 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

The idea makes sense to me, the problem we have is that we're not really getting enough out of the three central attacking players. I think KDH is the only player who has put up acceptable attacking numbers so far.

Ndidi was doing pretty well but we don't have any other midfielders providing anything

[smudgerfox]

Wingers are the problem for me. They’re exciting, skilful, fast, dangerous but not ruthless. In this system a lot of your chances fall to the wide players and ours are simply not clinical finishers - except perhaps McAteer. Neither are they prolific assisters. And that’s untenable. Add in the fact that the system tends to isolate the striker and you end up with a team that  dominates possession but doesn’t translate that domination into the scoreline.Win or lose , that’s been the story of nearly every game this season - Southampton, Blackburn, Preston , Swansea might be exceptions. 

[fuchsntf]

On 12/11/2023 at 01:10, sacreblueits442 said:

...not that we are trying for the perfect goal, no one is willing to take the responsibility of going for the goal!!!

McAteer did just that before his injury and today had a run at the defence where he could or should have gone on his own but chose to make the pass instead. Passing is so ingrained in these players they do not want to take on the responsibility to go for a goal.

Passingis so ingrained in these players they do not want to take on the responsibility to gofor a goal.

 

I do often think Jesus why didn’t he just go for it…strangely the next few games

they do,then seem to revert to type..

Gung ho, is now left to those old cowboy,and war films,or in the past memories of older supporters like myself..Those first 15 minute at Filbert street home games,

charge & up and at them…wonderfull to Watch…Leeds for the last 3 years,look busy,

hustle & bustle,even Gung ho with purpose, L’pool, BvB these last 50+years.

 

Lets be honest,it never worked for us,in fact over seasons periods of 2-4seasons max, and only with & not an handful of top quality teams,has Gung ho brought,any

success. Back in the day,teams who brought something different, wingers though giving often the Terrasses some memory to go home with,became defunk,shoved in midfield or some type of WB,wing play became easier to defend against & break up runs. The real big teams that evolved,created a new system,shown wing play,

like Robard,Ronaldo,Mahrez,Grealish plus  a few others ,were great rescources to have,but also often not played has-out n out wingers.Coached & coaxed to play with tendencies to concentrate more on their defensive duties,or take their play into or through the middle.

All those past wizards of the dribble,the faint, the ball skulduggery ,and flicks in nano secondsfaded on those romantic memories left behind in the modern coaches toolkit.

 

We have found this season,why four +1, wingers that have been told

to stick mainly on the wing,with 2 used slightly different..Fatawu/Mavadidi,the Terrasses love them when sent out to hammer down their flanks,many fan and Enzo know the nature of the beast,that over 90 minutes they will trip up,or fade in or out of games,but Enzo rightly believes these 2  they still give him & Team the press and more often than not creates openings…

Mcateer/Agun ,shown they can play slightly different roles

within wing play or from other positions.

Albrighton the club legend,like Vardy Not age,but time has slowly caught up with them..though it doesn’t mean yet they are surplus to requirements and can still occasionally produce their game according to Enzo needs to use them..

IMO Albrighton actoss the 2 leagues,is still one of the

best/top  crossers in the English game.and great to have around for the younger squad members to ping off,where some player  interviews have shown..

How great it would be if Mavadidi & Fatawu could push the Albrighton legend into a respected but deep long lost memory..

 

Today the modern fan linger too much on the mistakes/errors ,every single player makes instead of embracing those high % of positive moments the individual players,bring for the team & those expectations of the manager,within HIS own set up and system ideology..

 

Though we haven’t converted has often as we would of liked,

questioning that the “offensive play” is struggling and insuating

it has somehow imploded or broke beyond repair Naaa way of base. !!

Comeback before we go into the festive season,and let’s see if we have had that

occasional football wobble or hiccup, & have returned onto even steady keel,accepting there are waves out there,that still could upset our trim & balance..

 

Flatcap grumblings, and predicting doom all the way if…???
Makes one not the wisest.

A bit more favourable tendencies  encouragement towards a new manager and his system, squad, club approach would be not less than they have so far earnt..

 

Our lives and world going ons might be miserable,

but for me what’s sacremount are our “ Holidays/pastimes/ and sport,where one pushes the positives,and not dwell everyday,every week on the negative maybes &

laydown ground stone markers that all is lost..

Why if one loses a suitcase,the holidays aren’t ruined,just because you can’t wear that special loved shirt,or those so comfortable shoes,even your provisions of baked beans..

 

[gerblod]

1 hour ago, fuchsntf said:

Passingis so ingrained in these players they do not want to take on the responsibility to gofor a goal.

 

I do often think Jesus why didn’t he just go for it…strangely the next few games

they do,then seem to revert to type..

Gung ho, is now left to those old cowboy,and war films,or in the past memories of older supporters like myself..Those first 15 minute at Filbert street home games,

charge & up and at them…wonderfull to Watch…Leeds for the last 3 years,look busy,

hustle & bustle,even Gung ho with purpose, L’pool, BvB these last 50+years.

 

Lets be honest,it never worked for us,in fact over seasons periods of 2-4seasons max, and only with & not an handful of top quality teams,has Gung ho brought,any

success. Back in the day,teams who brought something different, wingers though giving often the Terrasses some memory to go home with,became defunk,shoved in midfield or some type of WB,wing play became easier to defend against & break up runs. The real big teams that evolved,created a new system,shown wing play,

like Robard,Ronaldo,Mahrez,Grealish plus  a few others ,were great rescources to have,but also often not played has-out n out wingers.Coached & coaxed to play with tendencies to concentrate more on their defensive duties,or take their play into or through the middle.

All those past wizards of the dribble,the faint, the ball skulduggery ,and flicks in nano secondsfaded on those romantic memories left behind in the modern coaches toolkit.

 

We have found this season,why four +1, wingers that have been told

to stick mainly on the wing,with 2 used slightly different..Fatawu/Mavadidi,the Terrasses love them when sent out to hammer down their flanks,many fan and Enzo know the nature of the beast,that over 90 minutes they will trip up,or fade in or out of games,but Enzo rightly believes these 2  they still give him & Team the press and more often than not creates openings…

Mcateer/Agun ,shown they can play slightly different roles

within wing play or from other positions.

Albrighton the club legend,like Vardy Not age,but time has slowly caught up with them..though it doesn’t mean yet they are surplus to requirements and can still occasionally produce their game according to Enzo needs to use them..

IMO Albrighton actoss the 2 leagues,is still one of the

best/top  crossers in the English game.and great to have around for the younger squad members to ping off,where some player  interviews have shown..

How great it would be if Mavadidi & Fatawu could push the Albrighton legend into a respected but deep long lost memory..

 

Today the modern fan linger too much on the mistakes/errors ,every single player makes instead of embracing those high % of positive moments the individual players,bring for the team & those expectations of the manager,within HIS own set up and system ideology..

 

Though we haven’t converted has often as we would of liked,

questioning that the “offensive play” is struggling and insuating

it has somehow imploded or broke beyond repair Naaa way of base. !!

Comeback before we go into the festive season,and let’s see if we have had that

occasional football wobble or hiccup, & have returned onto even steady keel,accepting there are waves out there,that still could upset our trim & balance..

 

Flatcap grumblings, and predicting doom all the way if…???
Makes one not the wisest.

A bit more favourable tendencies  encouragement towards a new manager and his system, squad, club approach would be not less than they have so far earnt..

 

Our lives and world going ons might be miserable,

but for me what’s sacremount are our “ Holidays/pastimes/ and sport,where one pushes the positives,and not dwell everyday,every week on the negative maybes &

laydown ground stone markers that all is lost..

Why if one loses a suitcase,the holidays aren’t ruined,just because you can’t wear that special loved shirt,or those so comfortable shoes,even your provisions of baked beans..

 

👏. Any new manager, whatever the business, can decide to mask his/her insecurities by being over-prescriptive in insisting players follow their 'plan'. Letting go of the reins is difficult when your reputation is at stake or when you are building a rep. The run of results has masked a few shortcomings in our play and maybe deceived the players into believing it's going to be simple to get promotion. We've been lucky in some games and now we've been unlucky in two successive games. A free kick is like a corner - they can come off, but it's often down to luck or the stars aligning perfectly. How often was Madders successful with his? Away at Middlesbrough to a free kick when it could have easily been a draw and the doom 'n gloom soothsayers start muttering around the campfire.

But Maresca is not yet Guardiola or Arteta - neither of whom ever seem to be looking over their shoulders - just always positive in seeking to approach games with confidence and self belief.

Great teams have players who aren't always thinking about what the manager will say if things go awry. The old adage about going out and enjoying yourself is true - only then is the yoke of expectation forgotten.

I wish I could watch City in that frame of mind. Only when we're 4-0 ahead can I relax. But that has ever been the football supporters burden.

[ClaphamFox]

18 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

The idea makes sense to me, the problem we have is that we're not really getting enough out of the three central attacking players. I think KDH is the only player who has put up acceptable attacking numbers so far.

Which is why I think we'll target at least one attacking midfielder in January. Although we're second-highest scorers in the league, we're nowhere near incisive enough around the box. Praet and Akgun will help in that regard when they're fit, but I'll be surprised if we d don't try to bring in a genuinely creative midfielder.

I have no doubt that we'll concede fewer goals than any other team in the division this season. If we make a few tweaks to ensure that our possession stats are better reflected in goals scored, we'll be be promoted.

Edited 15 November 2023 by ClaphamFox