Premier League has charged LCFC with an alleged breach of PSR

[5waller5]

1 hour ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

I see what you are saying but have we really curbed our spending and have we really learnt any lessons, I would suggest absolutely not, if anything we have continued to throw our lucrative contracts but just to a lower level of player. 
 

When we came down last time we had players like Hamza, Ward, Daka and Soumare who between them were on £250k per week, those 4 are still here, despite relegation and a supposed reset we then offered Winks and Coady contracts worth over £130k per week in the championship and close on £200k per week in the prem between them.
 

We then double down again by spending £40m and another circa  £250k  per week in wages to the likes of Skipp, Ayew, Eduaord and BDCR. All of which were the recommendations of a manager that the owner didn’t really want. 

 

Where have we learnt, where have we curbed our spending. Similar if not smaller sized clubs to us such Brighton, Palace, Bournemouth, Brentford and Fulham all seem to stay compliant and competitive, whilst we throw lucrative contracts to players who are not deserving of them in the view that is what makes us challenge the big 6, no it isn’t. 
 

We used to scout well, recruit young hungry players with a high ceiling, this is what made us successful, then we got lazy and instead of continuing to refresh we started to pay big wages across the majority of the squad, rank average players earning in excess of £2-3m per year to be squad fillers and bench warmers. 
 

Now the level of player we attract has reduced however we still seem happy to reward with big contracts. How anyone can continue to defend the directors of this club, who continually flout the rules, that have been in place for long enough, whilst delivering 2 relegations is absolutely beyond me, especially when the 5 clubs I mentioned have all been challenging for European qualification whilst remaining compliant with PSR rules. 
 

If this was at any other club, we would be watching on from afar aghast at the mismanagement of a club. 
 

I don’t feel sorry for the club, the club are not victims, they have shown time and time again a blatant disregard for the rules and it’s now caught up with the club who will be punished, I do feel sorry for the fans, us who can see how our club is being run into the ground and yet continually fail to make the systemic changes needed to reset. 
 

Make no mistake, any sadness I had as to how we have fallen, has long been replaced with anger, towards a board too arrogant to listen or acknowledge any mistakes, accountability or responsibility. A refusal to change anything and an almost unwavering stubbornness to just carry on regardless. 
 

We are not hard done to by the authorities we are reckless and this is going to have some pretty serious repercussions. If this does not make us as a fanbase unite to fight for change for our club then I really do not know what will. 
 

Yes we were in league one once, but honestly this is as bad in terms of ownership, decision making and leadership as I have ever  known it. Currently there are zero redeeming qualities, we have borrowed money to the hilt, supporters disconnected to club, on field shambles, off field we don’t have a clue.. This is really really bad and with a points deduction on the horizon I cannot see it improving for some time, unless Top sells up or suddenly clears out the current directors. 

Entirely agree.

[Finnegan]

The one thing about this announcement and it's timing is we're going to end up with another Steve Cooper situation where we can only hire a manager that's desperate because anyone with quality will want to keep their distance. 

 

Only now we're not in the Prem. 

 

[teblin]

Just now, Finnegan said:

The one thing about this announcement and it's timing is we're going to end up with another Steve Cooper situation where we can only hire a manager that's desperate because anyone with quality will want to keep their distance. 

 

Only now we're not in the Prem. 

 

The not in the prem thing might be an advantage, as despite a points deductions we should still have a competitive squad in the Championship. someone with the "Right Mindset" might see it as a way of getting a really good season on their CV with Promotion or near Promotion with a team with points deductions.

[AjcW]

9 minutes ago, teblin said:

The not in the prem thing might be an advantage, as despite a points deductions we should still have a competitive squad in the Championship. someone with the "Right Mindset" might see it as a way of getting a really good season on their CV with Promotion or near Promotion with a team with points deductions.

The increasing gap between the Championship and the Prem has meant the top 3/4 often get 90+ points.

 

Sheff Utd had a 2 point deduction this season and finished 3rd and might bow out against Sunderland on Saturday.

 

We're hearing rumours of 6,9,12 points. 

 

Lets take 9 or 12 as an example, that would require having the mindset that even winning your fist 5 games might not be enough to not be bottom of the Championship by the time the transfer window closes at the end of August.

 

If you took 12 points of Leeds/Burnley total right now they'd be in the Play Offs and they've had better seasons than we did last time round!

[Ric Flair]

31 minutes ago, Terraloon said:

This is why the arbitration panels views are so important

 

That panel clearly believes that the rules do give  jurisdiction to the PL but in relation to 22/3 a charge can’t be laid because the appeal panel’s decision may have been wrong but they way they went about making that decision wasn’t perverse.

I just don't get what's different. Both the PL and EFL have tightened their rules but they've not done so until 2024/25 so if the arbitration panel have ruled that the IC was wrong for 22/23 but not enough to overturn it but for 23/24 there is jurisdiction, we could argue that both have to be treated the same and fair game for 24/25 onwards where the rules have been re-worded to prevent this.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

@teblin @Claudio Fannieri @Wasyls Pec Deck

 

 

Agree with everything you all say. I’m not for one minute defending the board, and it’s clear we’re still operating with heavy losses…. But my stance is that it’s just becoming a tiresome relentless pursuit by the PL and the EPL to get us. When there’s other teams IE Chelsea and Man City who are blatantly breaking the rules but don’t receive half the scrutiny we have. This should have been settled when the verdict was released, but to change the rules and essentially have another go sends the wrong message to me. We’re no longer a threat to the top 6 and probably never will be again….. (two of those so called big clubs are doing a good job of ****ing up themselves anyway). You would think they would just accept that and move on, we’ve hamstrung ourselves and are paying the price for it.

 

The problem is, and it may even be us who knows, but the EPL and EFL will end up driving a club into extinction by punishing them, or at least set them on the path the self destruction due to hefty punishments. 
 

Points deductions in some scenarios could be the difference between relegation and survival, and the financial implications of relegation can be catastrophic for some teams. I just struggle to see where the sustainability part of this comes in? It just seems to me that it’s a football enforcement team gagging to get one over clubs that have interrupted their exclusive party. 
 

What we’ve done to ourselves is unforgivable, and hopefully this will start to make the most devout clappers see how badly this club is being run. But, I just think the approach to this PSR FFP stuff is Wild West, the EPL know they can’t touch the big boys, so they will hammer anyone else they can get their hands on, this shouldn’t be the way…. If a club is struggling and making mistakes, wouldn’t it be more pertinent to try to remedy the situation through action plans and guidance? Rather than just keep taking points off clubs, potentially causing further damage, and then walk away into the sunset for bumslaps and beers. 
 

I just feel like there needs to be a better system in place that actually puts clubs back on track, rather than further derail them. 

Wise words and agree with every single word. 

[teblin]

Just now, AjcW said:

The increasing gap between the Championship and the Prem has meant the top 3/4 often get 90+ points.

 

Sheff Utd had a 2 point deduction this season and finished 3rd and might bow out against Sunderland on Saturday.

 

We're hearing rumours of 6,9,12 points. 

 

Lets take 9 or 12 as an example, that would require having the mindset that even winning your fist 5 games might not be enough to not be bottom of the Championship by the time the transfer window closes at the end of August.

 

If you took 12 points of Leeds/Burnley total right now they'd be in the Play Offs and they've had better seasons than we did last time round!

It won’t be 12 that’s what you get when you go into administration. 
 

Forest got 4 points taken off, Everton something similar.

 

i might be wrong, id have thought we’d be looking at a max of 6 points. 

[ClaphamFox]

On Radio Leicester this morning Kieran Maguire said, very explicitly, that the PL can only impose a points deduction on us this season, effectively forcing us from 18th to 19th place - ie, they cannot force us to start next season with a points deduction. This contradicts what pretty much all media outlets were reporting yesterday. Now I really am confused...

[goose2010]

not sure there is any point thinking about the possible outcomes as this will go on for months and lets be honest they are just making it up as they go along. 

[teblin]

6 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

On Radio Leicester this morning Kieran Maguire said, very explicitly, that the PL can only impose a points deduction on us this season, effectively forcing us from 18th to 19th place - ie, they cannot force us to start next season with a points deduction. This contradicts what pretty much all media outlets were reporting yesterday. Now I really am confused...

Or I guess it can be suspended until we are in the premier league again?

[Chelmofox]

10 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

On Radio Leicester this morning Kieran Maguire said, very explicitly, that the PL can only impose a points deduction on us this season, effectively forcing us from 18th to 19th place - ie, they cannot force us to start next season with a points deduction. This contradicts what pretty much all media outlets were reporting yesterday. Now I really am confused...

Its silly season with a lot of this. I almost wish that everything was confidential until the points deductions had been confirmed as everyone is making lots up as they go along. 

[TheGoldenGod]

14 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

On Radio Leicester this morning Kieran Maguire said, very explicitly, that the PL can only impose a points deduction on us this season, effectively forcing us from 18th to 19th place - ie, they cannot force us to start next season with a points deduction. This contradicts what pretty much all media outlets were reporting yesterday. Now I really am confused...

Whilst that might be music to some peoples ears...it's safe to assume that we know how long these things drag on for and we've literally got 4 days until the season is over! I'm not convinced it could be applied this season unless its retrospective during next season at which point we'll already be playing in the Championship!

[Stadt]

40 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

The one thing about this announcement and it's timing is we're going to end up with another Steve Cooper situation where we can only hire a manager that's desperate because anyone with quality will want to keep their distance. 

 

Only now we're not in the Prem. 

 

The spending leads you to think the hierarchy thought we'd be fine FFP/PSR wise to then only land Cooper anyway was a failure. 

 

Top wants a manager that plays like Man City but Rudkin's lack of agency means we get Cooper, even by Top's own crap yardsticks he just doesn't get enough out of Rudkin. I can only assume he's absolutely stupid/negligent or Rudkin genuinely is in his position for more nefarious reasons.

[ClaphamFox]

Just now, TheGoldenGod said:

Whilst that might be music to some peoples ears...it's safe to assume that we know how long these things drag on for and we've literally got 4 days until the season is over! I'm not convinced it could be applied this season unless its retrospective during next season at which point we'll already be playing in the Championship!

Sure, but IF Maguire is correct, that won't matter because, according to him, the PL cannot impose a points deduction while we're in the Championship. So they'd have to retrospectively move us down from 18th to 19th (assuming we finish in 18th) or, as @teblin says, wait until we're back in the PL...

[Stadt]

2 minutes ago, TheGoldenGod said:

Whilst that might be music to some peoples ears...it's safe to assume that we know how long these things drag on for and we've literally got 4 days until the season is over! I'm not convinced it could be applied this season unless its retrospective during next season at which point we'll already be playing in the Championship!

More likely it'd be suspended until we (if ever) get promoted next time no? 

[TheGoldenGod]

Just now, ClaphamFox said:

Sure, but IF Maguire is correct, that won't matter because, according to him, the PL cannot impose a points deduction while we're in the Championship. So they'd have to retrospectively move us down from 18th to 19th (assuming we finish in 18th) or, as @teblin says, wait until we're back in the PL...

Oh it sounds ideal...for now (albeit pushing the can down the road in the event of a delayed PL points deduction next time we're promoted) but I'm just sceptical its true. Feels like the blind leading the blind sometimes!

[Iwebema]

3 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Sure, but IF Maguire is correct, that won't matter because, according to him, the PL cannot impose a points deduction while we're in the Championship. So they'd have to retrospectively move us down from 18th to 19th (assuming we finish in 18th) or, as @teblin says, wait until we're back in the PL...

I havent listened to it, so apologies if this is a silly question, arent the charges related to the season in the championship? And the PL are just executing some of the EFLs case and they will hand it back to the EFL once we are formally an EFL club? 

[The boy Linacre]

18 minutes ago, teblin said:

Or I guess it can be suspended until we are in the premier league again?

IF I was us I would do everything to take it this season, the season is gone, meaningless and worthless, lets toss the fire on a wasted season.

Much better approach than taking it next season OR the next season we are in the Prem.

[TrentFox]

We get a 4-point deduction with immediate effect. Thus ensuring we still beat Derby’s pathetic total, win our last game on Sunday to finish 18th, avoid relegation as Man City get 60 point deduction, then take Nuno from Forest who leads us to CL qualification. Fans declare it the greatest period of sheer ecstasy in the club’s history and Rudkin is given the freedom of the city for masterminding the whole process. It’s written in the stars …..

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, Stadt said:

The spending leads you to think the hierarchy thought we'd be fine FFP/PSR wise to then only land Cooper anyway was a failure. 

 

Top wants a manager that plays like Man City but Rudkin's lack of agency means we get Cooper, even by Top's own crap yardsticks he just doesn't get enough out of Rudkin. I can only assume he's absolutely stupid/negligent or Rudkin genuinely is in his position for more nefarious reasons.

 

I know it's easy to say in hindsight but I said this in the Ayew thread when we signed him, I'd rather we'd have just embraced relegation at the start of the season and done the complete opposite of getting "Premier League experience." We should have given up this year and just thought about the future. 

 

We shouldn't have signed anyone over 21. Buy a bunch of kids that'll improve in value, even if we sold half of them after one season when we get relegated. It's adding to the value of the squad and bringing in some money to soften the blow, any that stay, great that's next year sorted. 

 

The fact we brought in Skipp, Ayew, Reid and an extremely expensive Edouard loan and none of those people represent any chance of profit is just absolutely mind blowingly stupid for a club so close to the knife edge. 

 

Not only were those players obviously too crap to keep us up, they drag us further in to the PSR hole. 

 

Bilal was the right idea but he's just one guy and frankly wasn't THAT cheap. 

 

[Les-TA-Jon]

29 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

On Radio Leicester this morning Kieran Maguire said, very explicitly, that the PL can only impose a points deduction on us this season, effectively forcing us from 18th to 19th place - ie, they cannot force us to start next season with a points deduction. This contradicts what pretty much all media outlets were reporting yesterday. Now I really am confused...

I thought the PL and EFL had closed the loophole and also given each other the power to provide punishments on each other's behalf? 

 

I.e the PL is charging us for breaking EFL PSR, because we're currently under PL jurisdiction and then (probably next season) the EFL can impose any punishment on the PL's behalf. 

[lcfc_forever]

45 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I just don't get what's different. Both the PL and EFL have tightened their rules but they've not done so until 2024/25 so if the arbitration panel have ruled that the IC was wrong for 22/23 but not enough to overturn it but for 23/24 there is jurisdiction, we could argue that both have to be treated the same and fair game for 24/25 onwards where the rules have been re-worded to prevent this.

Agree Ric - I don't get it either. Seems to be that as the charges were announced after the rule was tightened up, it's OK but how does that stand up legally? But looks like the club have accepted that the PL does have the power to do this. 

 

It's interesting how the club have become a lot more conciliatory and talked about being cooperative. You'd think either they know we're in big trouble and so doing all they can to mitigate, or they know it won't be a big punishment so willing to go along with it. 

 

Based on what I've read, it seems we may not have gone over the limit hugely but the club's behaviour may put us in more trouble.  

Our case I guess will be:

• It wasn't clear whether we were a PL or EFL club, so the club in our rights not to engage fully until that was sorted so we didn't prejudice our own case. Now this has been clarified, the club is being fully cooperative. 
• The PL have said that punishment should be in-season so unfair for the club to hit next season. While they may argue the delay came from submitting the accounts, the arbitration committee needed to rule first anyway to clarify who has jurisdiction and it was a PL decision to take Leicester to that court after the appeals committee had already ruled on 22/23. 
• The rule change came after the accounts were submitted, so the club should have some mitigation here. 

 

Edited 21 May 2025 by lcfc_forever

[Ricey]

9 minutes ago, Iwebema said:

I havent listened to it, so apologies if this is a silly question, arent the charges related to the season in the championship? And the PL are just executing some of the EFLs case and they will hand it back to the EFL once we are formally an EFL club? 

This is how I understand it.

 

The PL now have the jurisdiction to review and charge us, even though we spent the final season of the three year period in the EFL. They can charge, pass on to the IC and they will determine a punishment.

 

The fact the club aren’t fighting this one suggests either they know they can’t win, as the PL can pass the punishment over to the EFL, or the they know the PL will have to apply it this season.

[ClaphamFox]

10 minutes ago, Iwebema said:

I havent listened to it, so apologies if this is a silly question, arent the charges related to the season in the championship? And the PL are just executing some of the EFLs case and they will hand it back to the EFL once we are formally an EFL club? 

No, the PL has jurisdiction over that season because we became a PL club before the end of the accounting period. That's why they have been able to charge us for that period.

 

5 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

I thought the PL and EFL had closed the loophole and also given each other the power to provide punishments on each other's behalf? 

 

I.e the PL is charging us for breaking EFL PSR, because we're currently under PL jurisdiction and then (probably next season) the EFL can impose any punishment on the PL's behalf. 

Yes, they've closed the loophole but Maguire seems to believe it won't apply in our case. He didn't really explain why, but I assume it's because he thinks that rule change cannot be imposed retroactively. 

 

I have no idea whether Maguire is correct, especially given that pretty much everybody else has been saying the opposite. But given his status as the leading expert on this stuff, it would be a weird thing for him to get so wrong...

[RonnieTodger]

Can’t wait to read more about how Leicester are being punished for trying to compete.

 

Competing by signing Vestergaard, Daka, Soumare, Bertrand and Lookman on loan.

 

Then not keeping the only one of those who was any good.