Russell Martin

[honeybradger]

37 minutes ago, RedSoxUK said:

https://fbref.com/en/comps/10/2023-2024/2023-2024-Championship-Stats

Fair enough, that's surprising to me although I am still wary of his reluctance to play typical wingers.

[Kitchandro]

31 minutes ago, kingfox said:

I’m gonna have to do a RedSox and dispute that claim slightly. 
 

Under Enzo Maresca we actually ranked 1st for counter attacks per90 in the Championship, we averaged 2.3, Southampton under Martin averaged 1.3

 

As for the second paragraph, I fully agree, but as I alluded to in another post yesterday, heavy possession has proved to be a successful formula in the Championship, but not a successful formula for newly promoted teams in the Premier League, this is where I feel some teams are becoming unstuck, but what do you do? 
 

In Russell Martin’s case, I feel he needs to get on trend slightly, or he’ll continue on that downward trend that you’ve alluded to. 
 

He needs to add more dynamism to his teams. At Leicester he’ll have Mavididi and Fatawu at his disposal, but at Southampton he had Sulemana and Edozie, they both ranked high when it came to take-ons per90, but Martin only started them in 10 and 16 games respectively. 
 

As you say, this is the one tweak that Russell Martin must make, and the evidence is there. 
 

Like yourself, I wouldn’t be too concerned with Russell Martin as manager in the Championship, just because history has shown that heavy possession is a successful formula in this league, but it’s the long term ramifications that would concern me, we’ll be going round in circles again if he doesn’t show willingness to tweak things. 

Having possession and being a possession obsessed team aren’t the same. Teams with better players will invariably have higher possession stats and are most likely to get promoted because they have better players. Having higher possession stats because you want higher possession stats is the problem. We had a lot of possession when promoted under Pearson, but our style was dynamic and varied. If we hadn’t got scared to attack part way through the first Prem season we’d have been comfortably top half and our run of form once throwing caution to the wind proved that.

 

I don’t share everyone’s confidence that we’re likely to go up and if I did it would be in spite of the incoming manager. If we’re going up because we’ve got the best players, let’s build something long term that we’ll be comfortable playing in the Premier League. If the players aren’t that great, we need a better tactician anyway.

 

The long and short of it is Martin will breed further apathy and resentment which will never disappear. He cannot succeed here because promotion and even midtable in the Premier League is less exciting than what we remember and the style of football will not protect him when we go on a bad run like it has protected someone like Ange Postecoglou for example.

Edited 25 May 2025 by Kitchandro

[inckley fox]

2 hours ago, RedSoxUK said:

Just to dispute that a bit... His Southampton side had he most progressive carries, 3rd highest take ons (more than us,) 4th highest crosses. 

 

People can peddle the 'possession for possessions sake' narrative but they did create, score goals, and got promoted doing it in a specific style and there's absolutely nothing to suggest that wouldn't be the case here with the clear objective of promotion. Worrying about how he would adapt a promoted Leicester side to avoid relegation isn't today's problem.

This sounds like advocating for more short-termism.

 

What happens beyond Year One is today's problem if what you do in Year One makes Year Two less likely to be successful. If we want to plan for the future, then surely that begins now and extends beyond a single season.

 

Whenever we have gone up and stayed up in the past we have been able to maintain and build on a core of players: Walsh, Izzet, Parker, Lennon, Heskey and Claridge in 1996, then Morgan, Schlupp, De Laet, James, Drinkwater, Mahrez, King, Vardy and Nugent eleven years ago. In the case of the latter, we went up with a young side and the conversation was frequently about having the right things in place to be successful in the PL. It wasn't an old school-era 'one side gets you up, then a totally different side keeps you up' approach.

 

Last year we came up with too many players who weren't going to make the step-up. We'd already seen that many of the core of the team weren't PL-standard, and on top of that played a style and system which was going to be hard to sustain. It wasn't even all that hot in the second half of the FLC season. Relegation wasn't all about the mistakes Cooper and Ruud made, or the limitations on the budget, it was also about how much work we'd given ourselves to bridge the gap by not previously making decisions with the long-term in mind.

 

Bearing in mind that Martin's non-PL record beyond that final full season with Southampton isn't actually very good - and that you'd have to say that, with a weaker squad than the last one we went down with, it's far, far from a shoo-in that he even takes us up - I'm not sure that a club seeking promotion should be appointing a boss who is up-and-down in the FLC, and awful when he gets out of it, is a good plan. Not if we want to establish ourselves in the top flight again.

 

It feels like yet more doubling-down on this board's footballing ethos, at the expense of making sensible decisions with the long-term future in mind. Even though, when they've been successful, it's often been because of a willingness to compromise on those ideals.

[kingfox]

1 hour ago, Iwebema said:

Did we really? That's interesting, honestly felt that every game outside of the Southampton game we were just camped on the oppositions box. I stand corrected!

 

I'm much less negative about the appointment than some on here, I can see a pathway to it being successful but it does feel very predictable amd short term.

 

I maybe naively think we have better wide players than he had at Southampton who he will have to use and can work well in his system at this level.

 

One thing I would say, considering we all know how much play power there is in the dressing room currently,  I do think the players would take well to him and enjoy playing his football which is half the battle.

 

Overall I'd much rather look towards Rohl or wider across the football world. But I dont think it will be as bad as some are making out.

 

The way I’ve described the potential appointment of Russell is inevitable, it’s felt like it’s been on the cards for years, he just feels like a very King Power type of appointment. It’s an unsurprising route to go down, just because he fits with previous styles we’ve had and has achieved promotion before, but as you say, it also feels a very short term outlook, it’s yet more proof imo that they are not following the trends, unless Russell actually does show tweaks here and there.

 

His style of football will suit various elements of the squad, Vestergaard and Winks will probably come back into the fold, but it’s not surprising that a chunk of fans want rid of those two, after what has happened with them this season. Will he favour Fatawu and Mavididi, I bloody well hope so, but you have to wonder why Sulemana and Edozie didn’t feature a bit more for Southampton, over Russell favouring attacking midfielders and strikers on the wings instead. 
 

We could well be a possession dominant team under Rohl, but at least Rohl has shown he can play a more fast & direct style at Sheffield Wednesday, and as evidence suggests, you need those fundamentals to give you a fighting chance in the Premier League. 
 

1 hour ago, Kitchandro said:

Having possession and being a possession obsessed team aren’t the same. Teams with better players will invariably have higher possession stats and are most likely to get promoted because they have better players. Having higher possession stats because you want higher possession stats is the problem. We had a lot of possession when promoted under Pearson, but our style was dynamic and varied. If we hadn’t got scared to attack part way through the first Prem season we’d have been comfortably top half and our run of form once throwing caution to the wind proved that.

 

I don’t share everyone’s confidence that we’re likely to go up and if I did it would be in spite of the incoming manager. If we’re going up because we’ve got the best players, let’s build something long term that we’ll be comfortable playing in the Premier League. If the players aren’t that great, we need a better tactician anyway.

 

The long and short of it is Martin will breed further apathy and resentment which will never disappear. He cannot succeed here because promotion and even midtable in the Premier League is less exciting than what we remember and the style of football will not protect him when we go on a bad run like it has protected someone like Ange Postecoglou for example.

It’s where Russell Martin and Vincent Kompany in the past have become unstuck though, to continue with the same type trends as a possession obsessed team that’s been newly promoted, it just doesn’t seem to work. 
 

Of course we haven’t been a possession obsessed team this season, but as I’ve said in previous posts, we haven’t got with the trends and in some areas, we’ve stuck with the same trends that we had in the Championship, for instance, the direct speed we’ve played at is pretty much identical this season to what we produced in the Championship, it isn’t going to cut it, and this is where you need to be more like a Bournemouth, Forest, Palace. 
 

Next season could easily go one of two ways, but I think us being in the mix is more likely than not being in the mix, but I thoroughly agree mate, you need to build a long term strategy to give you the best shot of Premier League survival, recent history suggests that wanting to be possession obsessive isn’t the right route to go down. 
 

And it’s a style that a good chunk of Leicester fans have become bored with, and as you say mate, the apathy will just continue to grow, especially if Russell goes on difficult runs of form. The style of football may be bad enough, but you chuck some bad runs of form into the mix too, they’ll rightfully be moans and groans galore, and fans will be wanting him out the door asap. 

[lcfcsnow]

You just know the Southampton obsession wouldn’t even be over as Martin would no doubt request players from there more shite lumbered with

[Guest Bilo]

Presumably we'll start to see movement, one way or another, next week.

[coolhandfox]

At least it looks like we are going to move quickly.

[Vindaloo FOX]

He's got good hair

[Steve Earle]

8 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

At least it looks like we are going to move quickly.

Bit late for that @coolhandfox?!

[SafewayFox]

14 minutes ago, Vindaloo FOX said:

He's got good hair

I said this to a couple of mates.

 

Genuinely think his hair and the fact he’s dating Lucy Pinder are his best traits.

 

That’s hardly an exciting choice for your next manager.

 

What an uninspiring and constant rumour.

Edited 25 May 2025 by SafewayFox

[ronnup]

Walker Peters free transfer first in

[Realist Guy In The Room]

15 minutes ago, Vindaloo FOX said:

He's got good hair

But we dont care

RUSSELL RUSSELL MARTIN

[ClaphamFox]

Why are people assuming this is a done deal when no reliable sources have reported it as such?

[SafewayFox]

3 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Why are people assuming this is a done deal when no reliable sources have reported it as such?

He has been linked to us, too many times for my liking though.

[Finnegan]

2 hours ago, kingfox said:

Under Enzo Maresca we actually ranked 1st for counter attacks per90 in the Championship, we averaged 2.3, Southampton under Martin averaged 1.3

 

It absolutely blows my mind the number of people that managed to watch us all year under Enzo and not actually understand what his football was.

 

I've said a thousand times (and I'll die on this hill) that the problem is less 'Enzoball' and the fact that everybody wanted to park the bus against us.

 

All of that "messing around at the back" is bait, it's trying to draw the opposition out and on to you so that you can beat the press and attack quickly behind them.

[Foxin_Mad]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

It absolutely blows my mind the number of people that managed to watch us all year under Enzo and not actually understand what his football was.

 

I've said a thousand times (and I'll die on this hill) that the problem is less 'Enzoball' and the fact that everybody wanted to park the bus against us.

 

All of that "messing around at the back" is bait, it's trying to draw the opposition out and on to you so that you can beat the press and attack quickly behind them.

The problem is with that type of Football though is you are driving teams to park the bus and no one is breaking the line, they know you will struggle to break them down. Its a strange style I don’t actually fully understand as most of the risk and jeopardy is created in your own 18 yard box as opposed to movement and risk taking in the opponents 18 yard box which they seem scared to do, or playing forward balls in the final 3rd. So many times a bit of movement would help. 

[ronnup]

Hes deffo coming, the way ot was talked about when they interviewed him before the play off final was like every ****er knows already

[lcfcbluearmy]

17 hours ago, Sankey93 said:

RM will have a better side with us than he did with Southampton! I would like someone totally different who plays attacking heavy metal football 😂 but he just ticks all the boxes for our board.

Blue tinted specs our squad now is no better than Southampton the season they got promoted

[SafewayFox]

12 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

The problem is with that type of Football though is you are driving teams to park the bus and no one is breaking the line, they know you will struggle to break them down. Its a strange style I don’t actually fully understand as most of the risk and jeopardy is created in your own 18 yard box as opposed to movement and risk taking in the opponents 18 yard box which they seem scared to do, or playing forward balls in the final 3rd. So many times a bit of movement would help. 

The style works, look at Brighton’s De Zerbi.

 

Our problem was the quality of some of our players (even at Championship level) for it.

 

It has its obvious flaws but Enzo compared to our managers since is night and days a better coach/manager.

[kingfox]

8 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

It absolutely blows my mind the number of people that managed to watch us all year under Enzo and not actually understand what his football was.

 

I've said a thousand times (and I'll die on this hill) that the problem is less 'Enzoball' and the fact that everybody wanted to park the bus against us.

 

All of that "messing around at the back" is bait, it's trying to draw the opposition out and on to you so that you can beat the press and attack quickly behind them.

He has shown similar elements at Chelsea too. They rank 2nd for counter attacks per90, direct attacks and fast breaks. 
 

Who knows how his style would’ve translated to us in the Premier League, but no doubt he would’ve made us more of a threat on counter attacks. 
 

The thing that pisses me off about Cooper and RVN, is the fact they’ve gone completely in the opposite direction. To go from the best counter attacking team in the Championship, to one of the worst counter attacking teams in the Premier League is nonsensical, and it’s partly why we’ve struggled in the Premier League so badly imo. 

[Finnegan]

3 minutes ago, kingfox said:

He has shown similar elements at Chelsea too. They rank 2nd for counter attacks per90, direct attacks and fast breaks. 
 

Who knows how his style would’ve translated to us in the Premier League, but no doubt he would’ve made us more of a threat on counter attacks. 
 

The thing that pisses me off about Cooper and RVN, is the fact they’ve gone completely in the opposite direction. To go from the best counter attacking team in the Championship, to one of the worst counter attacking teams in the Premier League is nonsensical, and it’s partly why we’ve struggled in the Premier League so badly imo. 

 

Everyone was acting like he'd have tried to out-pass the Prem. 

 

I think we'd have been better in attack and defence this year with his approach. Better defensive shape, better pressing, better counters. 

 

The "pragmatic" football everyone thought they were getting from Cooper was exactly what Enzo was going to provide, sensible defending, energetic pressing, fast counters. 

 

[foxfanazer]

Are we just gonna start every season now by appointing a manager the fans really don't want?

[AjcW]

5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Everyone was acting like he'd have tried to out-pass the Prem. 

 

I think we'd have been better in attack and defence this year with his approach. Better defensive shape, better pressing, better counters. 

 

The "pragmatic" football everyone thought they were getting from Cooper was exactly what Enzo was going to provide, sensible defending, energetic pressing, fast counters. 

 

Not to mention the 4 or 5 different players we would have signed/sold 🙈

[Realist Guy In The Room]

36 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

It absolutely blows my mind the number of people that managed to watch us all year under Enzo and not actually understand what his football was.

 

I've said a thousand times (and I'll die on this hill) that the problem is less 'Enzoball' and the fact that everybody wanted to park the bus against us.

 

All of that "messing around at the back" is bait, it's trying to draw the opposition out and on to you so that you can beat the press and attack quickly behind them.

The sad thing is, if Enzo spent 5 minutes of some games, pumping it long with Vesty up front knocking it down for Vards, Mavidid and Fatawu to run on to, there wouldnt have been any complaints at all.

 

[Uncle Monty]

4 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

The sad thing is, if Enzo spent 5 minutes of some games, pumping it long with Vesty up front knocking it down for Vards, Mavidid and Fatawu to run on to, there wouldnt have been any complaints at all.

 

Specifically the last 5 would have been nice. 

 

That was the most frustrating thing for me, when we were looking for a winner and seeing Wout, ball at feet, hand on hips at the half way line with players in front of him, only to slowly pass it back the the keeper. It was infuriating.