League One - Who manages us?

[The Doctor]

14 hours ago, whoareyaaa said:

It's not worked for 5 years plus, worked under Enzo as we had beter players who have now left and not been replaced ? 

we didn't play any sort of possession based football under Cooper. Hard to say we played football at all under RvN.

 

Be serious, what you actually are objecting to is not "possession football", because that's a wide reaching umbrella that covers pretty much all football besides the likes of catenaccio. There are a lot of ways to play with possession. What you actually mean is sterile "suffocate the game" football.

[HankMarvin]

19 minutes ago, shen said:

I think that we have to question whether any manager or squad can be successful with our current setup.

Maresca could, with a very strong squad. But we've degraded a lot since then.

Depends how you class successful, we have just seen Hull promoted on a shoestring budget whilst we were relegated from the league.

What is successful over the next two seasons?

Promotion and reaching the playoffs the following season with a rejuvenated squad of talented younger players I guess, but it’s all subjective and will depend hugely on what is invested back into the team.

Edited Thursday at 11:14 by HankMarvin

[shen]

2 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Depends how you class successful, we have just seen Hull promoted on a shoestring budget whilst we were relegated from the league.

What is successful over the next two seasons?

Promotion and reaching the playoffs the following season with a rejuvenated squad of talented younger players I guess.

We won't really know until we know the extent of outgoing and incoming players, any potential point penalties and the leadership structure reshuffle.

Something beyond the playing squad is clearly amiss, so a new manager will have a lot more on his plate in order to get results this season.

[les-tah]

Lets assume Russel Martin is the man how do we afford 11 new players fitting his style? Even maresca would struggle with this squad.

Edited Thursday at 11:32 by les-tah

[NAKC20]

I have just heard from a family member who has a close friend within the club that Russell Martin IS the new manager and i have seen photos of the presentation he has given. Only saying what i have been told but the source is usually very reliable

[Silva Fox]

1 minute ago, NAKC20 said:

I have just heard from a family member who has a close friend within the club that Russell Martin IS the new manager and i have seen photos of the presentation he has given. Only saying what i have been told but the source is usually very reliable

I don't doubt it for a moment but I suspect there are some clever tech-savvy people on here who will have a lot of fun with the highlighted part! 

[Holly B]

4 minutes ago, NAKC20 said:

I have just heard from a family member who has a close friend within the club that Russell Martin IS the new manager and i have seen photos of the presentation he has given. Only saying what i have been told but the source is usually very reliable

This

[Jabbaranks]

I have it on good authority that he's already been given a Leon Allen Unlimited Spend card, Simpkins lifetime membership and a Non-Peak hour admission card for St Maggies baths as well

[Finnegan]

I love how brave all the wannabe itks are saying they've heard it's Russell Martin when John Percy pretty much stated as such ages ago. 

 

[NAKC20]

24 minutes ago, Silva Fox said:

I don't doubt it for a moment but I suspect there are some clever tech-savvy people on here who will have a lot of fun with the highlighted part! 

Im sure there is (and im certainly not one of them) i am however convinced its true as on the photos the word 'shoot' is not mentioned once

[Outfox the Fox]

23 minutes ago, NAKC20 said:

I have just heard from a family member who has a close friend within the club that Russell Martin IS the new manager and i have seen photos of the presentation he has given. Only saying what i have been told but the source is usually very reliable

As Percy said this at the beginning of the week, I guess the main holdup, is sorting out his backroom team. He would want Matt Gill as his Assistant Manager, but all the talk at West Brom, is that Gill is staying there. If that's the case, I dont know who else he'd want for that job. Rhys Owen (Performance Coach) is very likely to be coming in from Rangers. Dean Thornton, RM's usual Goalkeeping Coach seems to be happy at Millwall and Ben Parker, the usual Analyst, is well set up at Old Trafford.

So, I would imagine there's a lot of 'tooing & froing' going on, trying to sort out the backup staff 

[MYKL]

I think if Martin gets the job it shows how delusional the club is, our current situation its perfect for an up and coming young manager wanted to prove themselves looking at options with a win rate of below 40% isn't going to help the club at all. 

[lcfcbluearmy]

36 minutes ago, NAKC20 said:

I have just heard from a family member who has a close friend within the club that Russell Martin IS the new manager and i have seen photos of the presentation he has given. Only saying what i have been told but the source is usually very reliable

Yes i heard that too proof attached 

[cityfanlee23]

3 minutes ago, lcfcbluearmy said:

Yes i heard that too proof attached 

As an F1 fan who grew up on the phrase "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast" that first line got me 

[cityfanlee23]

Russell Martin actually has me scared of success right now, because if we get promoted you just know we will panic offer a new 5 year deal and quadruple down on this long after he's gone "we got promoted from League 1 with this style" 

[Horibbly Wrong]

I've had a think and I'm pretty sure it's RM

[winteriscoming]

Unless he’s changed his style of play I genuinely think there’s more chance of us going down than going up with Martin in charge. 

[inckley fox]

3 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

Which is the baffling thing. Martin is 40—a young manager by any measure. He's shown he can coach a squad of players to play a particular way. He's got a good track record of blooding young players and is usually popular in the dressing room (Rangers being a notable exception). By all accounts he his ambitious and sees himself managing at the very top. Yet he has this glaring weakness in that he refuses to deviate from his preferred style even when it is tantamount to suicide against superior opposition. This means he will only ever deliver success if the squad at his disposal is technically superior to every other team in whatever division they're in.

 

If he doesn't become more pragmatic it will strangle his career before it's really taken off, yet he shows no signs of altering his approach. It's very odd.

I would agree, but Enzo's career has followed an 'alright when the squad ****s on everyone else's, not so hot when things are a bit tighter' trajectory, and it's served him well. To me, that doesn't qualify you as a particularly stellar manager and I suspect there are a good few would-be bosses out there who could also pull that off, but they don't tend to get the chance because they have to serve their apprenticeship with clubs that require a lot of improvement. And when they play that kind of football, it often goes wrong.

 

It's a scaled-down version of the old 'how would Pep have fared at Peterborough?' argument. Yes, I wholly accept that Guardiola is a pretty damn 'stellar' manager, but when you're comparing him with the Cloughs and Fergusons and even Mourinhos of the world, that's always the nagging question mark over his 'greatness'. He came straight in as manager of Champions League winners and has exclusively managed the biggest clubs in the world ever since. When he has improved clubs, he's been making elite teams even more elite.

 

Obviously, that once-considered-vital lower-level 'apprenticeship' never happened with Pep. It briefly happened with Enzo, went wrong, and nobody read too much into it. And then, a long long way down the ladder, it happened with Martin, didn't especially work out in two different jobs, but the football community had already decided he was the next big thing, so why let actual outcomes get in the way of that?

 

All that said, I appreciate the appeal to some clubs of managers who can deliver, or who have attributes that they believe can deliver, expected success to the best teams at a given level. That's what Scott Parker does in the second tier, even though he repeatedly leaves clubs ill-prepared for the step-up. I can't decide whether the reason for him never getting a chance with a top job is (a) he's not as bright as Enzo, Kompany etc.; (b) where others fly the nest, he's a decent enough human to stick around upon promotion and make things work... but repeatedly fails, (c) he's just not as glamorous as some of the others, or (d) he had a complete meltdown once and thus failed the litmus test for dealing with the sort of pressure you face at the top. I use him as an example because everything from the way his teams stifle games to the dapper dress sense reeks of someone who fancies themselves as an elite manager. On top of that, his record is actually a lot better than some of those who do get their chance.

 

So is that also why those who know (or think they know) what they're looking for overlook the bumps in the road that Enzo, Kompany, or possibly even Martin, stumble on? Right or wrong, does the footballing community just decide, at times, that someone's face fits for top-end management, while others don't?

 

Therefore the imitations you describe when it comes to Martin are also his appeal: we'll have quality which, the board believes, will put League One to shame, and need a manager who can motivate the squad and make the most of their superior technical attributes. It was a good fix with Enzo, after all, albeit a very short-term one.

 

But there are problems. Firstly, does that style work in the third tier? Did it give us any chance of capitalising on promotion and cementing ourselves at a higher level the last time round? Are we foregoing the chance of a long-term root-and-branch rebuild - right down to the playing philosophy - which could make us a second tier force again, or possibly better? Is this squad, or what's left of it, really all that superior to the best teams in the third tier?

 

Then there's the man himself. Is he really the brand of manager I just described - lined up for the elite, and therefore a genuine asset for the right club? Or is he one of those who was lined up for the big time, failed his audition, and is now in the dumper along with a whole host of others; a place from which only idiots like Top and Rudkin go fishing for their managers? Is he anything like the kind of manager who can correct the deep cultural issues at the club? Can he overcome the tidal wave of negativity and toxicity that will greet him? And, even given his supposed strengths, is he actually that good at playing the classic, so-called 'poundshop Pep'? Is he good enough to fully exploit technical superiority, if that's what we truly have?

 

Sadly, I think this smacks of a very limited, unintelligent, under-researched, arrogant and unimaginative approach to appointing your managers. I wouldn't entirely rule out short-term success, but it's by no means a given in the current climate and would probably be costly in the long-term. Martin is not a good manager, even at this level, and won't be an asset. He may once have been billed as the next big thing, but isn't any more. In spite of his age, he's as much yesterday's man as the dinosaurs of the game who bronze themselves on beaches while the grandkids splash about, occasionally featuring on podcasts or midweek game pundit panels, surprising everyone that they're still alive and lucid.

 

Above all, if it happens, it'd be as clear an example as you could have of a club which urgently needs a thorough top-to-bottom overhaul but which, instead of that, is digging in, misremembering what worked for them in days of yore, and repeating the same old mistakes all over again. And if it does work, which it most probably won't, it won't work for long.

[ClaphamFox]

2 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

Unless he’s changed his style of play I genuinely think there’s more chance of us going down than going up with Martin in charge. 

It will depend entirely on what kind of squad he gets to work with. Next season's squad will likely be virtually unrecognizable from last season's, but nobody knows who will be in it so it's hard to predict where we'll end up.

[FoxKent_88]

1 minute ago, ClaphamFox said:

It will depend entirely on what kind of squad he gets to work with. Next season's squad will likely be virtually unrecognizable from last season's, but nobody knows who will be in it so it's hard to predict where we'll end up.

Some rare positivity on Foxestalk !! 

[21st Century Fox]

I for one can't wait to see which overpaid players, wedded to one singular tactical system, we'll be celebrating seeing the back of in 2030.

[winteriscoming]

9 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

It will depend entirely on what kind of squad he gets to work with. Next season's squad will likely be virtually unrecognizable from last season's, but nobody knows who will be in it so it's hard to predict where we'll end up.

I’m hoping it will be mainly youth. 
Build a side around Alves, Nelson, Braybrooke and Page. 
 

[FoxinNotts]

9 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

I’m hoping it will be mainly youth. 
Build a side around Alves, Nelson, Braybrooke and Page. 
 

I'd add Aluko into this list. Wouldn't be adverse to all these starting regular in league 1

[ClaphamFox]

13 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

I’m hoping it will be mainly youth. 
Build a side around Alves, Nelson, Braybrooke and Page. 
 

I can see Alves, Braybrooke and Page being starters. Nelson may be sold if we get a decent offer.

 

The one positive we have at the moment is that even if 20 of last season's squad end up leaving, we won't have to buy replacements for all of them as you'd expect the academy to fill in some of the gaps. This will hopefully mean we can concentrate whatever budget we have on a handful of quality signings rather than stretch it across a large number of average ones.

Edited Thursday at 12:57 by ClaphamFox

[sporter113]

16 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

I’m hoping it will be mainly youth. 
Build a side around Alves, Nelson, Braybrooke and Page. 
 

Could build an entire XI of academy players.

 

Bausor

Aluko - Gray - Wilson-Brown - Ali

Braybrooke - Cartwright - Page

Evans - Hutchinson - Alves

That's assuming Nelson and Monga get sold.