England vs Argentina - Weds 15th July - 20.00 (BST)

[Bevan]

Are we ever going to win the World Cup again? It genuinely feels like we never will. We just can’t get over the line and just don’t have the right mentality. Over 60 years and so many different players and managers and we can’t even get to a World Cup final 

[FrankieADZ]

Just now, Bevan said:

Are we ever going to win the World Cup again? It genuinely feels like we never will. We just can’t get over the line and just don’t have the right mentality. Over 60 years and so many different players and managers and we can’t even get to a World Cup final 

not for a while yet id say

[JonnyZeroFox]

Just now, Bevan said:

Are we ever going to win the World Cup again? It genuinely feels like we never will. We just can’t get over the line and just don’t have the right mentality. Over 60 years and so many different players and managers and we can’t even get to a World Cup final 

I’m believing not… we will bully teams with individuals but when up against an equal just go into our shell and be pathetic 

[OadbyBlue]

Devastating. 

[Super_horns]

The issue was we had no out ball - someone to hold it up in attack or even make a run with the ball through midfield.

 

Not be able to keep the ball meant we had to chase everything and get organised. 

 

Of course that then leads to endless pressure and obviously a side like Argentina are going to create and ultimately  convert chance.

[JonnyZeroFox]

1 minute ago, FrankieADZ said:

not for a while yet id say

I can go back to Sven era and the like… as much as we say they failed not once even against Brazil and some world class teams did we get overrun and totally outplayed like tonight 

[filbertway]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Bloke managed a Chelsea side rattled by Dan Amartey ffs

Good point, I assume he was inspired by Rodgers back 7 in the FA cup final

 

[FrankieADZ]

what a clown, hes got to go

[Leicesterpool]

Do you think walks away after the game Saturday or is he staying on to next euros. 

[Muzzy_no7]

There was no reason to go 5 at the back when he did.

 

Lautaro came on AFTER this.

[STUHILL]

1 minute ago, Bevan said:

Are we ever going to win the World Cup again? It genuinely feels like we never will. We just can’t get over the line and just don’t have the right mentality. Over 60 years and so many different players and managers and we can’t even get to a World Cup final 

Not until we have a Manager that really has no fear and just wants us to go out and win games by as many goals as possible, no matter the occassion. 

 

We keep ending up with Managers that try to defend 1 goal leads no matter what. 

I'd love a Manager to come in and say that the history of trying to hold on to leads is over. We are in a new era of trying to kill of games with more goals. 

I would genuinely prefer we lost games 6-3, with continued attacking and positive subsitutions, rather than this 5 at the back and all behind the ball bollocks. 

[Jattdogg]

11 minutes ago, JonnyZeroFox said:

with Southgate we never sat that deep, that’s the point… never got dominated with a team having 88% when we scored..  and the teams Southgate got put out by were better 

I was joking...mine was intended as a sexual innuendo. It's me jattdogg, what else do you expect lol.

[Jattdogg]

7 minutes ago, Bevan said:

Are we ever going to win the World Cup again? It genuinely feels like we never will. We just can’t get over the line and just don’t have the right mentality. Over 60 years and so many different players and managers and we can’t even get to a World Cup final 

Looking at evidence since the 60s, no lol.

Edited 1 hour ago by Jattdogg

[Alf Bentley]

3 minutes ago, Tielemans63 said:

An alternative view is that Argentina massively upped their game (which they did) and maybe the players could have been trusted to weather that storm. There is no doubt that the goal and their subs stung them into life. I just felt that Gordon for Konsa move looked such a poor call at the time, and so it has proven. We were still ahead, I strongly feel that wasn't the right change and it sent out all the wrong signals to the players.

 

 

 

Argentina did indeed massively up their game.

 

The rest is us analysing with hindsight from both of us. I can understand Tuchel not trusting the players to weather the storm, as there was no sign of the storm ending. We were under the cosh and looking increasingly likely to concede - and the players weren't finding ways to reduce that pressure and that likelihood of conceding, so I think he did have to act.

 

The Gordon-Konsa substitution looks bad with hindsight, but I can see the logic to it - stiffen the defence to deal with the onslaught, while pushing the 2 full backs forward to wing back roles, which theoretically should have allowed them to contribute to England keeping the ball better in midfield and moving forward when in possession. It didn't work like that, but I can see the logic. I'd be more critical of the subsequent subs, particularly Burn for James and not bringing on a pacy attacking player (e.g. Watkins) who could've forced Argentina to at least keep a couple of players back in defence.

[MattFox]

7 minutes ago, Bevan said:

Are we ever going to win the World Cup again? It genuinely feels like we never will. We just can’t get over the line and just don’t have the right mentality. Over 60 years and so many different players and managers and we can’t even get to a World Cup final 

Nahhh

 

Footballs cyclical and the last 10 years have been our opportunity 

 

can see it swinging against us again 

[Muzzy_no7]

1 minute ago, FrankieADZ said:

what a clown, hes got to go

Squad selection wrong and tactics wrong tonight. 
 

Would he learn for Euro 2028?

 

Who else is there without Tuchel?

[ramboacdc]

1 minute ago, Leicesterpool said:

Do you think walks away after the game Saturday or is he staying on to next euros. 

Wont walk. Also wont be sacked. 

 

Stuck with him until there is a scandal or there's a pitch **** up that is deemed unforgivable. Will be difficult as we auto qualified for the next euros.

[Jattdogg]

I would rather see us go out trying to win the sit back like cowards.

 

There is a time and place for that of course but not so soon after scoring.

[STUHILL]

Pep Guardiola?! 

 

Literally, the only man I think can stop generations of this pathetic defensive mindset in big games. 

 

I think he would be interested as well. 

[Samilktray]

12 minutes ago, JonnyZeroFox said:

with Southgate we never sat that deep, that’s the point… never got dominated with a team having 88% when we scored..  and the teams Southgate got put out by were better 

This Argentina team are better than Croatia when we lost in the semi finals, definitely better than the Italy team we lost to in the final of the euros aswell. Let’s not be silly now, these are the defending world champions ffs  

[DJW1]

Within two minutes of us scoring, Kane was playing in midfield. He should have been told stay up front, or replaced. Konsa didn't come on until 17 min after our goal. We were already hanging on but that change just made the defeat more inevitable 

[whoareyaaa]

16 minutes ago, EastAnglianFox said:

Both centre backs were on a yellow card right?

 

Did they even need to make a clearance in the last 20 minutes? 
 

Truly awful management
 

 

Southgate all over again bottled it

[JonnyZeroFox]

3 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

This Argentina team are better than Croatia when we lost in the semi finals, definitely better than the Italy team we lost to in the final of the euros aswell. Let’s not be silly now, these are the defending world champions ffs  

We will see once Spain spank them. For me we lost to an ageing poor Argentinian side 

Edited 55 minutes ago by JonnyZeroFox

[STUHILL]

1 minute ago, DJW1 said:

Within two minutes of us scoring, Kane was playing in midfield. He should have been told stay up front, or replaced. Konsa didn't come on until 17 min after our goal. We were already hanging on but that change just made the defeat more inevitable 

Would have loved to have seen two strikers put on at this point. At least have an outlet for counter attacks. It was shockingly bad game management

 

[Samilktray]

1 minute ago, JonnyZeroFox said:

We will see once Spain spank them 

That has no relevance to what I said