England vs Argentina - Weds 15th July - 20.00 (BST)

[STUHILL]

Tuchel got scared and bottled it. Simple as that. 

 

He tried desperately to protect a 1-0 lead. 

 

We can't have a Manager with that mindset. 

 

We will never win anything with a Manager who is afraid to kill the game off. 

 

Get rid. Harsh, but he will do the exact same in other big games. 

 

 

[KingsX]

just coaching malpractice.

 

yours were the better side for 60’. And yet from 65’, they never had a chance. Not “second best” — but never had a chance.

 

an inevitable but unnecessary capitulation.

[filbertway]

Oh well! Russ ball in league one to look forward to now boys and girls! 

[Tommy Fresh]

Just now, filbertway said:

Eh? Did you sleep from our goal to the first sub? The players retreated to their own box immediately 

 

The player's were well into sit back mode already

 

Yeah but do you know thats not a pre agreed tactic or an instruction in game from Tuchel? If not why does he wait so long to change it?

[JonnyZeroFox]

I don’t know how I feel, I just felt we went backwards from Southgate today not the forward steps we expected under Tuchel. That call to bring defenders on was the worst I have ever seen, even if we somehow seen it out I would be going crazy… we handed Argentina control 

[foxfanazer]

Just now, Miella27 said:

Was you not raging at the tv?

Nope, I thought the ref had a good game. The first 20 minutes was embarrassing from both sets of players and then we kind of got on with it

[trabuch]

5 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Kane had to go to the only team in Germany that wins things to win a trophy ****ing dog shit 

I think he really is a problem for us. I know he scores goals for us (against average opposition usually), but for most of the game he's doing nothing. Messi was doing nothing most of that match, but when he was needed he really stepped up. Oh - and he's a shit captain.

Edited 2 hours ago by trabuch

[JonnyZeroFox]

1 minute ago, filbertway said:

Eh? Did you sleep from our goal to the first sub? The players retreated to their own box immediately 

 

The player's were well into sit back mode already

 

Tuchel did nothing to change it at the hydration break he could have by making more aggressive subs but defenders come on 

[Lambert09]

I think the reason he has to go is because he thought he could treat Argentina the same as Mexico and Norway. 

[Stuntman_Mike]

50 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I know I am

 

You got sheep on Google images?

Edited 2 hours ago by Stuntman_Mike

[JonnyZeroFox]

Just now, trabuch said:

I think he really is a problem for us. I know he scores goals for us (against average opposition usually), but for most of the game he's doing nothing. Messi was doing nothing most of that match, but when he was needed he really stepped up.

Needed? What he did step up but you mean when we decided to stick eight in the box and give him all the room… blame Kane whatever! It’s pathetic to do so.. Kane would do just as much damage if we are on the front foot.. just not allowed to when the whole team is sitting back 

[foxfanazer]

1 minute ago, trabuch said:

I think he really is a problem for us. I know he scores goals for us (against average opposition usually), but for most of the game he's doing nothing. Messi was doing nothing most of that match, but when he was needed he really stepped up. Oh - and he's a shit captain.

You're brave 

[Miella27]

Just now, foxfanazer said:

Nope, I thought the ref had a good game. The first 20 minutes was embarrassing from both sets of players and then we kind of got on with it

Fair enough, I will politely end this conversation and watch the first 15-20 mins of the game on catch up to see if I draw the same conclusion as I did first time round. 

[filbertway]

Just now, Tommy Fresh said:

Yeah but do you know thats not a pre agreed tactic or an instruction in game from Tuchel? If not why does he wait so long to change it?

Kane said "the message was to go for another after we scored"

 

Tuchel was also annoyed about us being poor on the ball and passive after Norway. Whereas Jude was pretty chuffed we ground out a 2-1 v Norway.

 

So im inclined to think its the players mindset.

 

Especially given recent evidence of us in major tournaments as well.

 

I could be wrong but from what I saw, it looked like the players were in "do not concede" mode as soon as Argentina took the kick off after Gordon's goal.

[Jattdogg]

28 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

We're not allowed to take Kane off 

Its always been this way. Whether it's Kane or a previous star.

 

We always seem to hold on to our best player even when they clearly arent 100%. This is not a knock on Kane because he has done fantastic for us. The man is no spring chicken, played lots of games and cant keep doing that in the heat.

 

When you recognize your players arent performing, you sub and bring on a replacement who might provide a better option. I dont  care if its messi, Ronaldo nobody is safe. Why bother bringing other players of you arent going to use them? Its our national squad they are all very good players.

 

That aside, I feel for the players because this is tuchels fault. He failed us when we needed him to be a leader. Im sorry but if you did this now, you will only do it again next tournament.

 

Wouldn't be upset if he walks or if sacked. Just another excuse.

Edited 2 hours ago by Jattdogg

[Alf Bentley]

23 minutes ago, Tielemans63 said:

I don't blame the players, I don't think it is a mentality issue from them. It's 100% Tuchel's tactics. It was a stupid gamble to invite pressure from the world champions for 30+ minutes. 

 

As soon as he took off Gordon for Konsa, the writing was on the wall. The players didn't bottle it, the manager did. 

 

We scored in the 55th minute. Tuchel didn't make that first sub until the 72nd minute.

 

During the intervening 17 minutes, we had already dropped deep, Argentina were dominating possession (88% Argentina possession from England taking the lead).

We were inviting pressure from the moment we went ahead - including for 17 minutes before Tuchel made any substitutions.

 

There's a separate argument to be had about the wisdom of the subs made, but these facts suggest the players had indeed bottled it - and Tuchel was reacting to that fact. It can certainly be argued that his reaction was wrong - but the problem was there long before he tried to deal with it.

[Corky]

The ref was probably a booking light early on but booking lots of players would make the game even worse for histrionics and play acting.

[Tommy Fresh]

Just now, filbertway said:

Kane said "the message was to go for another after we scored"

 

Tuchel was also annoyed about us being poor on the ball and passive after Norway. Whereas Jude was pretty chuffed we ground out a 2-1 v Norway.

 

So im inclined to think its the players mindset.

 

Especially given recent evidence of us in major tournaments as well.

 

I could be wrong but from what I saw, it looked like the players were in "do not concede" mode as soon as Argentina took the kick off after Gordon's goal.

So make a sub then  don't say go for a second and then watch them sit back for 20 minutes

[JonnyZeroFox]

Just now, Alf Bentley said:

 

We scored in the 55th minute. Tuchel didn't make that first sub until the 72nd minute.

 

During the intervening 17 minutes, we had already dropped deep, Argentina were dominating possession (88% Argentina possession from England taking the lead).

We were inviting pressure from the moment we went ahead - including for 17 minutes before Tuchel made any substitutions.

 

There's a separate argument to be had about the wisdom of the subs made, but these facts suggest the players had indeed bottled it - and Tuchel was reacting to that fact. It can certainly be argued that his reaction was wrong - but the problem was there long before he tried to deal with it.

Reacted a manager don’t go more ****ing defensive because his players lost bottle he makes aggressive subs and inspires them ffs 

[Lambert09]

3 minutes ago, trabuch said:

I think he really is a problem for us. I know he scores goals for us (against average opposition usually), but for most of the game he's doing nothing. Messi was doing nothing most of that match, but when he was needed he really stepped up. Oh - and he's a shit captain.

As a fan of a club who had vardy, you of all people should know that they can’t do anything without service. If the moment had come he would have delivered and we are screwed when Kane is gone 

[Izzy]

Fvck off Tuchel. Join Ericsson and Capello and get in the bin.

 

I want an English manager next and his name is Wayne Rooney

[filbertway]

2 minutes ago, JonnyZeroFox said:

Tuchel did nothing to change it at the hydration break he could have by making more aggressive subs but defenders come on 

Don't disagree with that. I just think the players hold more responsibility than Tuchel.

If they as a team dont want to attack, he can bring on attackers but if they sit back then its lambs to the slaughter. 

 

Incredibly disappointing again from England, clutching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Stuntman_Mike]

We peaked too soon. 

 

It was a disaster inviting that much pressure at that stage. 

 

We looked dead by the end and only have ourselves to blame.

 

It's infuriating losing to them ****s, I just hope Spain smash them in the final.

[foxfanazer]

Just now, Corky said:

The ref was probably a booking light early on but booking lots of players would make the game even worse for histrionics and play acting.

Exactly. Kept his cool amongst some really embarrassing theatrics from both sides

 

 

[Tielemans63]

3 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Nope, I thought the ref had a good game. The first 20 minutes was embarrassing from both sets of players and then we kind of got on with it

I thought the ref was okay, too. Although, more generally, it does wind me up that Argentina get more leeway than any other side beside 'that's just how they play'. Seems ridiculous to me that it's an expectation that there'll be a few horrendous challenges allowed before anything gets done.