Absolute *** of our time Pt.MXXVI

[jgtuk]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

A technical point that a lot of people appear to be putting a lot of unnecessary value on and a distinction withouta difference, it would seem to me.

 

As people above have said, for me the much bigger issue is that numerous government entities failed to deal with this man before he committed these terrible acts.

This...

[Innovindil]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

A technical point that a lot of people appear to be putting a lot of unnecessary value on and a distinction withouta difference, it would seem to me.

 

As people above have said, for me the much bigger issue is that numerous government entities failed to deal with this man before he committed these terrible acts.

This would be my takeaway aswell. This man should have been locked up long before he had the chance to kill and hurt these people. 

 

With that said, I'd add the caveat that I can see why the families are angry. For all the similarities between prison and a secure medical facility, being told he will "probably" never be released from there because of his condition is not the same as having the assurances he'll spend x amount of years in jail. A small difference, but one of importance when people are hurting so badly imo. 

[Spiritwalker]

18 minutes ago, Torquay Gunner said:

Sadly the entire Justice system is underfunded including the Probation Service, Prison Service and the Courts.   I work in the courts and the backlog is horrendous.

As is the mental health system which I suggest is at the heart of the problem here.

More anger should be directed towards those who for years have underfunded mental

health services. Many people who should be in hospital are on the streets and not 

looked after or monitored.

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

I don't see what opportunity you're suggesting? No one is going to think "oh I'm just going to murder lots of people and claim schizophrenia", because a) psychiatrists can see through that b) this person had extensive history of insane delusions. He literally went to the mi5 building and asked to be locked up. 

 

The second point is there's actually very little difference between a secure hospital and high secure prisons, which I don't think the general public gets. He is not being shipped off to Pontins here, he will be in solitary confinement and he'll be on all sorts of horrible drugs (google Clozapine) against his will.  If he gets put on Clozapine then he'll be dead before he'd ever be considered safe for release anyway.

 

Of course the baying mob wants what they see as just punishment, in fact I think for a lot of people, prison would not be enough for this person. These psychiatrists are also not the bleeding heart liberals a lot of people think they are, it's actually one of the most oppressive professions out there. 

 

The families have not got justice, however that is partly due to the inactions of the state, and not solely on the guy who killed their loved ones.

The opportunity is strikingly clear. The headline reads 'triple killer in broad daylight avoids jail.' Ergo, people will think if I commit a crime I won't got to jail. The detail behind it you talk about is redundant, very few people will go that far.

Do you think the man on the clapham omnibus knows there is little difference between a jail and hospital? Of course not.

Read most of the literature on here, especially around COP 28 and climate change, it is clear the majority of people do not go beyond headlines and do not understand topics. As they will in this case too.

[Fox92]

Got away with murder.

[String fellow]

Yesterday, we had the 'random men-with-opinions on the internet'. Today, we have the 'man on the Clapham omnibus'. I'm looking forward to learning a few more wonderfully condescending and sexist phrases before this debate is finished! 

Edited 26 January by String fellow

[grobyfox1990]

27 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Yesterday, we had the 'random men-with-opinions on the internet'. Today, we have the 'man on the Clapham omnibus'. I'm looking forward to learning a few more wonderfully condescending and sexist phrases before this debate is finished! 

Condescending? it's a term used in courts across the world to determine what the reasonable person would behave like.

If we're sticking to the general rhetoric that the courts are oh so right and qualified people CANNOT be questioned because the murderer had mental health issues, the man on the clapham omnibus model would be a central part of that.

[String fellow]

1 hour ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Condescending? it's a term used in courts across the world to determine what the reasonable person would behave like.

If we're sticking to the general rhetoric that the courts are oh so right and qualified people CANNOT be questioned because the murderer had mental health issues, the man on the clapham omnibus model would be a central part of that.

Tbh, I don't fully understand either of the points made above. However, I do note with interest the use of the word shown in bold.

[filthyfox]

I have actually bren on the Clapham omnibus....   it's not that special

[Parafox]

3 hours ago, filthyfox said:

I have actually bren on the Clapham omnibus....   it's not that special

Are you the driver?

 

Or the rear gunner?

[FoxesDeb]

3 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Are you the driver?

 

Or the rear gunner?

Wait, Bren is from Dinnerladies I thought? Victoria Wood?

[Parafox]

14 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Wait, Bren is from Dinnerladies I thought? Victoria Wood?

 

Clearly you're too young to get the connection 

Edited 26 January by Parafox

[Foxdiamond]

10 minutes ago, Parafox said:

 

Clearly you're too young to get the connection 

Br from Brno and En from Enfield = Bren Gun

[FoxesDeb]

8 minutes ago, Parafox said:

 

Clearly you're too young to get the connection 

It's not often I get called too young these days, so I'll take it 

[Jon the Hat]

15 hours ago, Innovindil said:

This would be my takeaway aswell. This man should have been locked up long before he had the chance to kill and hurt these people. 

 

With that said, I'd add the caveat that I can see why the families are angry. For all the similarities between prison and a secure medical facility, being told he will "probably" never be released from there because of his condition is not the same as having the assurances he'll spend x amount of years in jail. A small difference, but one of importance when people are hurting so badly imo. 

I think you hit the nail on the head there.  There should be a route to saying this is murder, and they will spend the rest of their natural life in a secure facility in cases such as this.  Vistims families are never goingt o be satisifed with Manslaughter and undetermined sentence in a hospital.

[ozleicester]

wait till you all read Sapolsky - Determined

[Zear0]

[SecretPro]

13 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Hope they get tortured daily in prison.

[Daggers]

5 hours ago, SecretPro said:

Hope they get tortured daily in prison.

I hope the people who underfunded education, mental health and social services for the last 14 years get tortured daily. 

[Daggers]

On 27/01/2024 at 06:42, ozleicester said:

wait till you all read Sapolsky - Determined

Feels > reading and facts and stuff

 

Catch up.

[Guest David Oldfields Gate]

13 minutes ago, Daggers said:

I hope the people who underfunded education, mental health and social services for the last 14 years get tortured daily. 

You mean taxpayers? 

[SecretPro]

25 minutes ago, Daggers said:

I hope the people who underfunded education, mental health and social services for the last 14 years get tortured daily. 

Oh me too, but I think you'd be pushing to suggest that they are to blame in this instance. 

 

No broken homes here, perfectly normal families, no red flags, even at school, fairly well off too judging by those trips for the world kickboxing championships etc. 

Edited 2 February by SecretPro

[Daggers]

5 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Oh me too, but I think you'd be pushing to suggest that they are to blame in this instance. 

 

No broken homes here, perfectly normal families, no red flags, even at school, fairly well off too judging by those trips for the world kickboxing championships etc. 

Don't believe it’s pushing it at all. It’s beyond argument that we fail kids with issues completely. This has nothing to do with broken homes or affluence.

 

CAMHS is a right state, and obtaining diagnosis for MH problems and neurodiversity no longer attracts the support and funding it used to. 
 

After the first attempted poisoning and exclusion, Jenkinson would and should have been sent to a PRU…but good luck finding spaces anymore.

[Parafox]

7 hours ago, Zear0 said:

 

Well, aren't they the picture of decent parenting and a sound educational background?

 

Maybe one shouldn't judge a book by it's cover. 

Edited 2 February by Parafox

[ealingfox]