PAPA LAZAROU Posted 17 September 2014 Posted 17 September 2014 They joined the Union voluntarily. No they did not . They had too because they were bankrupt and it's only our money that has kept them stable for three hundred years. If they want to fly the nest then so be it, we will be better off without them.
Bellend Sebastian Posted 17 September 2014 Posted 17 September 2014 But they are in charge of their own destiny, they get a vote the same as the rest of us. They're Brits like everyone else in 2014. It's not like they're the Irish in 1920, they're not being beaten or abused or oppressed by an occupying ruling class. They're an equal member in a union that subsidises their prescriptions, education, let's them make their own laws and gives them stacks of cash every year to run things. They're literally like the spoiled kids of wealthy middle class parents getting all rebellious because they're not allowed to have a shit tattoo and leave their room a mess. They've got it spectacularly good and the only thing they don't like is their central government is the other end of an island in a country that conquered them hundreds of years ago. If the Welsh and the Cornish can be over it by now I'm pretty sure the Sweaties can be too. They've had it better than the rest of the celtic nations for the last few centuries as it is. You need to tidy up your room, young man, and what's that on your arm? I don't know enough about how it all works to say whether they are or aren't under the current system, I'm thinking more about how they feel, and of course how people feel in lots of situations doesn't necessarily reflect the reality of it. I'm English and have only ever lived in England, so I've no insight whatsoever into what it's like to be a citizen of any of what might be viewed by some, rightly or wrongly, as the 'junior' nations of the union, or the cultural baggage that it seems goes along with that for some folk
Guest MattP Posted 17 September 2014 Posted 17 September 2014 I don't know enough about how it all works to say whether they are or aren't under the current system, I'm thinking more about how they feel, and of course how people feel in lots of situations doesn't necessarily reflect the reality of it. I'm English and have only ever lived in England, so I've no insight whatsoever into what it's like to be a citizen of any of what might be viewed by some, rightly or wrongly, as the 'junior' nations of the union, or the cultural baggage that it seems goes along with that for some folk I'd say given they are part of a group of nations that seems to happily subsidises their prescriptions, educations, welfare state etc they have it pretty damn good to be honest and the main reason as to why the 'Yes' campaign has been run on a platform of 'anti Tory, anti English rhetoric rather than any substance based on economics. Not bad 'cultural baggage' if you ask most people south of the border. Incredibly this also runs alongside the lowest life expectancy in Western Europe (Just imagine that welfare bill if pensions were having to be paid out to an average mortality age of near 80 like we have to?) It's only the fact that the English have become so apathetic that they haven't asked some serious questions of why this has been allowed to happen in the first place, maybe on Friday we'll start after Call me Dave's and Mr Milipede's outrageous piece of devo max bribery this week to ensure a 'No' Vote. I won't bet on it though.
Finnaldo Posted 17 September 2014 Posted 17 September 2014 If they vote yes I'll be the first one up there rebuilding Hadrian's Wall.
yorkie1999 Posted 17 September 2014 Posted 17 September 2014 To be perfectly honest, if cameron and his new found friends had offered celtic and rangers premier league football, the no's would have won by a landslide.
Orkneyfox Posted 17 September 2014 Posted 17 September 2014 They joined the Union voluntarily. A small number of heavily bribed Scottish nobles signed the act of Union, most of Scots had no say in the matter.
Webbo Posted 17 September 2014 Posted 17 September 2014 A small number of heavily bribed Scottish nobles signed the act of Union, most of Scots had no say in the matter. That's how it was in those days, most English didn't have a say either.
Vacamion Posted 17 September 2014 Posted 17 September 2014 Facebook and Twitter are practically no go areas, swamped with people posting recycled propaganda from both sides. As if people haven't made up their minds and would be influenced by it...
notnow john Posted 17 September 2014 Posted 17 September 2014 Even with a no vote it's the begining of the end.
DennisNedry Posted 17 September 2014 Posted 17 September 2014 Salmond wins either way. YES VOTE: We're free from the English! NO VOTE: We managed to secure very favourable conditions from the English!
OzFox Posted 18 September 2014 Posted 18 September 2014 Enjoyed this... http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/09/david-camerons-draft-letter-in-the-event-of-a-yes-vote/ To my fellow citizens I would like to apologise for the role I have played in the dismantling of the United Kingdom. I am sure there is little need for me to tell you that I never dreamed that my Prime Ministership would be the Union’s last, or that I would be the person ultimately responsible for the needless destruction of one of the most successful polities in the history of Europe and indeed the world. However, I must take responsibility for what has happened. First of all, the blame is mine for allowing the referendum question to be worded in a way that inevitably favoured the secessionist cause. As is obvious now, I should have insisted on wording such as: ‘Do you think Scotland should leave the United Kingdom?’ or ‘Should Scotland remain part of the United Kingdom?’ Unfortunately my career in television PR and then at the top of Conservative politics gave me little training in the art of negotiation. I now accept that I should have sent a more able and experienced negotiator to wrangle with a politician as accomplished as Alex Salmond. To my shame I must also confess that, before those negotiations, it had been suggested that my government seek advice from colleagues in Canada and elsewhere who had successfully defeated similar referendums and separatist movements. I declined to follow that advice, underestimating as I did the urgency and importance of the question of Scottish secession. It was also, as the referendum results make all too clear, deeply foolish of me to agree to Alex Salmond’s demand that teenagers be allowed to vote in the referendum. It did not occur to me at the time that the only 16- and 17-year-olds likely to take part in such a vote would be passionate nationalists, and that I might be dooming the cause of the Union. It is true that Conservative modernisers and my long-time image consultants were adamant on this question, but in the end the decision was mine. It was unforgivably trivial and short-sighted of me to put the future of the UK at risk for the chance of a slight improvement in our brand image among young people. All I can say in my defence is that at the time our pollsters said it was highly unlikely that the nationalists would ever have a real chance of winning. However, there is no excuse for the lack of seriousness, effort and thought that I and my cabinet put into the referendum until too late in the day.Whatever the future may hold for an independent Scotland, there is no question that the immediate prospect for England, Wales and Northern Ireland is a dismaying and difficult one. On top of negotiating borders and finances with Scotland, we face the complicated and costly task of reshaping thousands of public and private institutions to fit our truncated country. We must restore international confidence in the remains of the UK even as we come to terms with a radical change in our national identity. Much as I hope to play my own part in indeed in rebuilding British nationhood, and persuading investors and institutions around the world that Britain is still a safe and stable place to do business, I feel it would be wrong to do so while holding the office of Prime Minister. I therefore resign that office, and also announce my intention to stand down as Member of Parliament for Witney. I extend my humblest apologies to her Majesty, to my fellow citizens and to all who put their faith in me as a leader. David Cameron
ozleicester Posted 18 September 2014 Posted 18 September 2014 I hope they leave just so the status quo is changed
leicsmac Posted 18 September 2014 Posted 18 September 2014 Nah, Scotland going solo would be a dream come true for the Tories. Their entrenched supporters won't give a flying fvck that the Union has been split up as they're only care about England anyway and their political base will become a majority.
breadandcheese Posted 18 September 2014 Posted 18 September 2014 Nah, Scotland going solo would be a dream come true for the Tories. Their entrenched supporters won't give a flying fvck that the Union has been split up as they're only care about England anyway and their political base will become a majority. That's simply not true.
leicsmac Posted 18 September 2014 Posted 18 September 2014 That's simply not true. Can you elaborate? The Tories have always sourced their core support from middle and Southeast England and this at a stroke will eliminate many voters who will not vote for them. And isn't it the majority view amongst conservatives that if Scotland wants out, they can have it but don't come back crying in a few decades when the Westminster money tree isn't available to them?
Webbo Posted 18 September 2014 Posted 18 September 2014 Can you elaborate? The Tories have always sourced their core support from middle and Southeast England and this at a stroke will eliminate many voters who will not vote for them. And isn't it the majority view amongst conservatives that if Scotland wants out, they can have it but don't come back crying in a few decades when the Westminster money tree isn't available to them? The Conservatives are a Unionist party. Most put country before party.
Guest MattP Posted 18 September 2014 Posted 18 September 2014 Nah, Scotland going solo would be a dream come true for the Tories. Their entrenched supporters won't give a flying fvck that the Union has been split up as they're only care about England anyway and their political base will become a majority. No offence but you can tell you are nowhere near this country to come out with such nonsense. Every Tory I know is absolutely dreading a yes vote today and seems to care passionately about keeping the union.
leicsmac Posted 18 September 2014 Posted 18 September 2014 No offence but you can tell you are nowhere near this country to come out with such nonsense. Every Tory I know is absolutely dreading a yes vote today and seems to care passionately about keeping the union. Really? That's what I get when I source the prevailing opinion from our conservative community on here then, I guess. There's been a fair few on here saying what I said above. The Conservatives are a Unionist party. Most put country before party. Fair enough then. What political spectrum do the 'let them go, we don't want them anyway' brigade belong to then? On this particular matter I agree wholeheartedly about keeping the Union. The world is watching, and quite frankly a Yes vote will make the UK a laughing stock in the eyes of the international community.
Webbo Posted 18 September 2014 Posted 18 September 2014 I think English people from across the spectrum occasionally think "fvck em" when they hear the Scottish hatemongers constantly blaming us for their own shortcomings but deep down we don't want Scotland to leave.
Stadt Posted 18 September 2014 Posted 18 September 2014 If I was Scottish I'd be voting no but had the yes campaign not been full of empty promises and ran by Alex Salmond I probably would have voted yes. But I'm not Scottish
Guest MattP Posted 18 September 2014 Posted 18 September 2014 Really? That's what I get when I source the prevailing opinion from our conservative community on here then, I guess. There's been a fair few on here saying what I said above. Fair enough then. What political spectrum do the 'let them go, we don't want them anyway' brigade belong to then? On this particular matter I agree wholeheartedly about keeping the Union. The world is watching, and quite frankly a Yes vote will make the UK a laughing stock in the eyes of the international community. Really? I'd say a few fringe people are probably either winding others up or couldn't care less. No Tories are actively wanting the destruction of the Union, Cameron has openly stated he cares more about his country than his party. Second line - all of them, I don't think it's exclusive to one group. (maybe the SWP excepted, did you see thhem get hold of Miliband in Edinburgh? )
Ashley Posted 18 September 2014 Posted 18 September 2014 What happens to the Union Jack and Ensign should Scotland get the 'YES' Vote? Edit: Will Scotland stay within HM Armed forces too?
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