At last the dinosaurs at the FA get it !

[sylofox]

if you are good enough, you will still make it.

 

Look at Bale, Walcott, Wilshere, Waghorn......................................

Who the fvck is he?

[Kitchandro]

Too many average foreign players, is the problem, no problem with the likes of Aguero, Van Persie, Ozil playing in the prem, it is the average, but cheap foreign imports that are the problem. Especially at the top clubs, Jon Obi Mikel being the prime example of a shit player getting played so much at one of the best clubs at the expense of a young English talent, when you think of Chelsea having the likes of Scott Sinclair, Scott Parker, Steve Sidwell, Shaun Wright Phillips, all players whose careers went backwards at Chelsea.

 

Just look at the squads, in each team you've got plenty of no name foreigners who are taking the place of young English academy products.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2412068/Premier-League-squads-25-man-lists-team.html

 

Park, Chu Young

Kozak, Libor

Gueye, Magaye Serigne Falilou Dit Nelson

Bolasie, Yannick

Amorebieta Mardaras, Fernando Gabr

 

Who the fvck are any of these players?

 

 

 

Let's face it, there's not just one thing to blame.

 

There was a bloke on SSN yesterday who 'got it', he said we've got idiot youth and grass roots coaches who don't know what makes a good player. I mean how many short-arse Iniesta types have slipped through the net because they were told they weren't strong enough and were released at about 15?

 

Encouraging more young English players into starting 11s would help, but though we do stifle our kids we just aren't producing the quality often enough.

 

And it's no good them being on the bench either, forcing teams to play them is necessary.

 

And as has been said, it's no good them being foreigners who have been here 3 years. And it's no good them being Scottish or Irish either.

[Lesta Legend]

I always think the excuse of there is too many foreign players is a bit of a lame excuse, how does our players playing week in week out with the best players in the World in the Premiership make us play worse? Spain are World Champions and they have plenty of foreign players in La Liga. When it comes down to it our players just quite simply not good enough yet we are not far off though

Worst example against this guys argument, most players within the Spanish squad are from Barcelona and real. Both these teams are full of Spanish players. Isn't that what we want?! They have the best 'technical' players in the world as they invested in thousands of quality coaches and encourage technical ability and enjoyment over archaic Norms of the English 'style' competitive pressure from an early age.

If you had less foreign players, invested in better coaches and encouraged technical ability we would have a better national squad no doubt.!

[davieG]

Lot's of fans seemingly like to see the ball hoofed up.

 

There was a Senior FA coach in the late 70s early 80s I think who need a load of analysis on how goals were score and came up with the long ball game scenario that was adopted as official FA coaching policy - Cant' remember his name but I blame him for a lot of the shitty footbal that became the norm especially in the lower leagues.

 

Sure we used to have big bustling centre forwards before then but we also had plenty of ball playing skillful players.

 

Found him - Charles Hughes - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Hughes_(football_coach)

 

Charles Hughes (born 28 July 1929)^{[citation needed]} was the director of FA coaching for the Football Association. He authored the FA's official coaching manual and was an early developer of long ball tactics.^[2]

Hughes presented his ideas in the now defunct magazine Match Analysis and concluded most goals were scored from less than three passes. So it was important to get the ball quickly forward as soon as possible. He based this analysis on over one hundred games at all levels, including games involving Liverpool F.C. and the Brazilian national team, as well as many England Youth games. His ideals were developed from the those developed by World War II Wing Commander Charles Reep.^[3] From his statistical analysis, Hughes emphasized the importance of particular areas of the field from where goals were most often scored. He called these area the POMO - Positions of Maximum Opportunity - and asserted that players would score if the ball was played into the POMO enough times. He stressed the importance of set plays and crosses into the box.^[4]

Many British coaches advocated his long ball philosophy but critics have derided his philosophy for encouraging a generation of players who lack basic technical skills and have lack of understanding of diversity of different tactical playing strategies.^{[5][6][7][8][9][10][11]}

 

[Captain...]

Spain also have more top players playing abroad than we have English players playing abroad, Brazil have had this problem for years aswell with many of their top players playing in Europe do we consider this an advantage that we have over them then? If this was the other way round we would be using this as an excuse

 

You need a mix, we are too insular in many respects in the UK, and we don't like to go abroad. Brazil is different as it isn't one of the top leagues in the world, but I honestly think we would do better if we had English players playing for the top clubs in Norway, Sweden, Poland, than bench warming for Chelsea or playing for West Ham they may not be in the best teams in Europe but they would experience champions league football, the pressure of playing in the biggest games and develop the habit and attitude of winning.

 

As many have said on here there is not just one problem, there are short term fixes and long term fixes, what we can do now is enforce strict English born quotas for the first 11 or match day squad, whatever happened to that I thought it was coming in? We can develop better training facilities and have more training sessions for the English players, especially the young ones get them more involved in the squad and less pointless friendlies where we learn nothing as half the team drop out and the rest are too scared to get injured.

 

Long term we need a change of attitude at youth level, better playing surfaces at schools so they can actually pass the ball and a change in win at all costs at youth levels. We also need some joined up thinking where the U17s, U18s, U21s all play in the style that England will play in and ensure that the next manager doesn't just come in and change everything so we are starting from scratch, or have the same management team ensuring that we keep on track even if the manager changes. And not panic and stick the big man on and lump it up to him if we are losing. If we want to win the 2022 World Cup we need to be planning for it now.

[LCFC FOX]

Is homegrown just 4 English players in the squad or 4 players through the academy 

[Guest shearfox]

You need a mix, we are too insular in many respects in the UK, and we don't like to go abroad. Brazil is different as it isn't one of the top leagues in the world, but I honestly think we would do better if we had English players playing for the top clubs in Norway, Sweden, Poland, than bench warming for Chelsea or playing for West Ham they may not be in the best teams in Europe but they would experience champions league football, the pressure of playing in the biggest games and develop the habit and attitude of winning.

As many have said on here there is not just one problem, there are short term fixes and long term fixes, what we can do now is enforce strict English born quotas for the first 11 or match day squad, whatever happened to that I thought it was coming in? We can develop better training facilities and have more training sessions for the English players, especially the young ones get them more involved in the squad and less pointless friendlies where we learn nothing as half the team drop out and the rest are too scared to get injured.

Long term we need a change of attitude at youth level, better playing surfaces at schools so they can actually pass the ball and a change in win at all costs at youth levels. We also need some joined up thinking where the U17s, U18s, U21s all play in the style that England will play in and ensure that the next manager doesn't just come in and change everything so we are starting from scratch, or have the same management team ensuring that we keep on track even if the manager changes. And not panic and stick the big man on and lump it up to him if we are losing. If we want to win the 2022 World Cup we need to be planning for it now.

Totally agree with this, smaller pitches for your kids should also be neccessary, young kids shouldn't be playing on full size pitches because that just allows the big strong kids to look good.

[Captain...]

Totally agree with this, smaller pitches for your kids should also be neccessary, young kids shouldn't be playing on full size pitches because that just allows the big strong kids to look good.

 

Very good point, to be honest I don't really know what goes on at youth level, we need to be able to identify the kids that are going to make it as soon as possible, not just those with natural athleticism, but we need to find the kids with the good footballing brains, the ones that dribble with their heads up, that can see the best pass and know what they are going to do before they receive the ball, even if they don't execute it perfectly, that's the stuff you can't train.

[Kitchandro]

My uncle played under Nish in the City Academy and said he was useless. It seems a lot of these coaches don't even have any intention of nurturing young talent.

[Stadt]

Strong, quick player signs for academy gets to 16/17 gets released from academy for not being good enough on the ball.

Rinse and repeat.

[Steven]

Young English players need to have better attitudes, skills and make more reasonable wage demands to make them more attractive to Clubs.

[Swalker]

Or our players just aren't good enough

[Corky]

Increasing the number of young English players is not the only thing that matters, adding 40 average players won't improve us much, just more mediocrity to choose from. We need to have more players who have a better skill-set and the mentality to compete at the top level.

 

Focus on what they can do, not what they can't do. If they don't track back why does it matter if they can use the ball intelligently and have a cutting edge? Give players freedom, allow them to make mistakes if they try something different and then they might improve.

[deep blue]

Better coaching and emphasis on technical skills in our youngsters, coupled with good routes for them to progress through academies, is the key. 

 

That will make all the other problems disappear (as long as we get a large number of talented English players coming through then the competition from players of other nationalities wouldn't  have a big impact;  certainly it would significantly reduce the number of mediocre foreigners taking places from British players). 

 

But even if we started this now it will take 10 years minimum for it to show an effect at league level.

[oxford blue]

I agree with the comments about coaching etc.  In an interview on 5live last week, Gareth Southgate said the "win" attitude many youngsters pick up from parents doesn't help creative talent; a comment which anecdotally is right. 

 

This table for 2011/12 shows the Premier League has far more foreign players - and now around two-thirds are foreign - compared with less than 30% at the start:

http://comparetheleagues.com/

 

In Italy "a club must sell one of their non-EU players to make room for another as the rules stand at present, should they wish to sign more than their allocated two." (Source Forza - April 2013)

 

The following quote from the Guardian _Aug 2013 - says a lot:

 

Roy Hodgson, the manager of the senior national team who already face a tough battle to qualify for the World Cup, can only be alarmed that of 61 signings made by top-flight clubs for transfer fees this summer, a mere 12 have involved English players. None of last season's top eight has paid a fee for an English player since the transfer window opened.

While this is partly attributable to the reality that imports are appreciably better value than their high-priced English counterparts, deficiencies in youth development, coaching culture and wider education also all contribute to the failure of England-born players to make the required grade. Only three of the 23-man Under-21 squad that beat Scotland 6-0 last week started in the Premier League last weekend.

 

The problem Greg Dyke has is getting the Premier league to introduce proper quotas - Richard Scudamore doesn't seem to think there's anything wrong with position as it stands.

 

Interesting Greg Dyke had a large part to play in the introduction of the Premiership, so presumably it's not turned out as he thought...

[purpleronnie]

I agree with the comments about coaching etc.  In an interview on 5live last week, Gareth Southgate said the "win" attitude many youngsters pick up from parents doesn't help creative talent; a comment which anecdotally is right. 

 

This table for 2011/12 shows the Premier League has far more foreign players - and now around two-thirds are foreign - compared with less than 30% at the start:

http://comparetheleagues.com/

 

In Italy "a club must sell one of their non-EU players to make room for another as the rules stand at present, should they wish to sign more than their allocated two." (Source Forza - April 2013)

 

The following quote from the Guardian _Aug 2013 - says a lot:

 

Roy Hodgson, the manager of the senior national team who already face a tough battle to qualify for the World Cup, can only be alarmed that of 61 signings made by top-flight clubs for transfer fees this summer, a mere 12 have involved English players. None of last season's top eight has paid a fee for an English player since the transfer window opened.

While this is partly attributable to the reality that imports are appreciably better value than their high-priced English counterparts, deficiencies in youth development, coaching culture and wider education also all contribute to the failure of England-born players to make the required grade. Only three of the 23-man Under-21 squad that beat Scotland 6-0 last week started in the Premier League last weekend.

 

The problem Greg Dyke has is getting the Premier league to introduce proper quotas - Richard Scudamore doesn't seem to think there's anything wrong with position as it stands.

 

Interesting Greg Dyke had a large part to play in the introduction of the Premiership, so presumably it's not turned out as he thought...

Of course not we are the richest league around, that's all he cares about, he dismissed quotas and stated 'Our responsibility is to put on the best possible show'

 

And that in a nutshell is his stance.  Depressing.

[Ryanw21]

 

 

I think teams need to get together and make a protest against referees and the defences that they have, they have a right to send a player off therefor managers and players should have that right to dispute it. Refs should be accountable for their actions and poor games.

[coolhandfox]

A lot of talk about home grown players and to many foreign imports, in the 70's, 80's and 90's we had few foreign players and England were still poor!

 

Its down to lack of quality of coaching at all levels, grassroots and professional clubs, Academies still look to pick size and strength and speed over technical ability. 

[Swiss_tony]

Is this the same greg dyke that  that worked for lwt and initially setup a meeting with 5 breakaway clubs from the old league one to  form  the PL?

So now he works for the FA it was all a very bad idea??

Hmmmmmmm.

[hackneyfox]

Keeps getting mentioned that English players are too expensive, surely that only applies to the good ones?

Do Championship players get paid more than foreign imports to The Premier? It would have to be significantly more should they have similar skills as surely it takes longer to bed an import in.

 

There's nothing like the number of English players in the top division compared to 10 or 15 years ago, where have they all gone, they haven't gone abroad and the quality of the lower divisions certainly hasn't improved that much.

 

We're just not producing proper ball playing footballers, certainly not in a great number.

[Captain...]

Keeps getting mentioned that English players are too expensive, surely that only applies to the good ones?

Do Championship players get paid more than foreign imports to The Premier? It would have to be significantly more should they have similar skills as surely it takes longer to bed an import in.

 

There's nothing like the number of English players in the top division compared to 10 or 15 years ago, where have they all gone, they haven't gone abroad and the quality of the lower divisions certainly hasn't improved that much.

 

We're just not producing proper ball playing footballers, certainly not in a great number.

 

Tax laws and cost of living mean that championship players are often earning more than players in the top flight of other countries.

[Guest shearfox]

Could be worse, we could be the Wales U21's losing to the might of San Marino

[Leicester_Numan]

Lot's of fans seemingly like to see the ball hoofed up.

There was a Senior FA coach in the late 70s early 80s I think who need a load of analysis on how goals were score and came up with the long ball game scenario that was adopted as official FA coaching policy - Cant' remember his name but I blame him for a lot of the shitty footbal that became the norm especially in the lower leagues.

Sure we used to have big bustling centre forwards before then but we also had plenty of ball playing skillful players.

Found him - Charles Hughes - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Hughes_(football_coach)

Graham Taylor must have been a big fan, according to ex-players, he was always on about POMO

[lc4lcfc]

The issue is this. Homegrown players come with an inflated price tag. The PL may be the richest league in the world but how do we justify these prices? Liverpool a few seasons ago bought Suarez for £35 million and in the same window bought in Andy Carroll for £50 million. Find me one person that would play Carroll over Suarez on skill? In fact id rather have Ronaldo over bale as well. Now that FFP has come in aswell clubs will struggle to buy the better English talent. And if they can't move they may be stuck in the lower leagues with a team tht struggle for promotion. They then can't gain the experience of world class competition and the national team still suffers. The best bet is for every club to focus on their academies and the coaching but even the top academies are swamped with foreign talent. 2022 is far too unrealistic. We've gone too far and I fear we won't see any improvements until nearer 2030

[fleckneymike]

I thought this was going to be a thread about a meteor hitting FA HQ