Troy Deeney

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

As aposed to measuring on what, to say that it won't be the case and they will finish higher than us? As Babylon says, gut feeling? Fact is when we have a bad run our lads will pull together to get us out of it, can't see the same happening at QPR.

[Manwell Pablo]

But it's something measurable, unlike a gut feeling or whatever else people are using.

 

It's not measurable, at all. Football isn't match and Physics there are two many outside factors to look at it like that. 

 

Lambert - Wouldn't have come here, and is 32 which means virtually zero sell on value.

 

Fraizer Campbell - Cheap fee, but what did he want in wages etc? If we decided not to bow to his demands and buy someone else instead that probably tells you all you need to know. Oh and 6/7 goals in the premier over one full season isn't really proven.

 

Bojan - The man who scored less in La Liga playing for Barcelona that Ulloa did for a relegated team... whom you don't like. And has struggled to get goals almost everywhere he's been. A "name" maybe, but that means big wages with little to back up that value.

 

Erm you asked where the sub 8 million pound strikers were I've told you, other circumstances are irrelevant. 

 

Lambert might be 32, Ulloa may I remind you is 28, not exactly a huge gap.

 

Campbell, I don't fcking know but  but 7.1 Million pounds is a pretty massive offset against his wages don't you think? somewhat we're going to end up in the black going for Ulloa instead, and he's more proven than either of the other two.

 

Well he was mainly used off the bench, so his record of one in four is actullaly pretty good for Bace, but  yeah your dead right actually, 3 million for an exciting 23 year old who was on the books at Barcelona certainly  is nothing compared to Troy Deeney and Ulloa for 10. Certainly see what your saying. And you know nothing about what wage he's on so your pissing in the wind. 

 

Madness. 

[Manwell Pablo]

Looking round I see Fabio Quagliarella has gone to Torino for 3 Million this season, quite clearly proven top level goal scorer, and there is no way Torino are going to be able to match us for wages. Not much older than Ulloa and much better.

[JJS84]

Looking round I see Fabio Quagliarella has gone to Torino for 3 Million this season, quite clearly proven top level goal scorer, and there is no way Torino are going to be able to match us for wages. Not much older than Ulloa and much better.

 

well he's 31, and will be 32 in Jan, so 3.5 years older, so not really close at all.

 

And his salary is €45,000 a week.

 

i think thats called a fail there.

[Dr The Singh]

It's not measurable, at all. Football isn't match and Physics there are two many outside factors to look at it like that.

Erm you asked where the sub 8 million pound strikers were I've told you, other circumstances are irrelevant.

Lambert might be 32, Ulloa may I remind you is 28, not exactly a huge gap.

Campbell, I don't fcking know but but 7.1 Million pounds is a pretty massive offset against his wages don't you think? somewhat we're going to end up in the black going for Ulloa instead, and he's more proven than either of the other two.

Well he was mainly used off the bench, so his record of one in four is actullaly pretty good for Bace, but yeah your dead right actually, 3 million for an exciting 23 year old who was on the books at Barcelona certainly is nothing compared to Troy Deeney and Ulloa for 10. Certainly see what your saying. And you know nothing about what wage he's on so your pissing in the wind.

Madness.

Thanks for contradicting me manbaps, but I do agree with you!

[Manwell Pablo]

well he's 31, and will be 32 in Jan, so 3.5 years older, so not really close at all.

 

I said not much older not close, you keep putting words in my mouth though, 31 is not much older than 28, in my eyes anyway. Especially when talking target men. 

 

and one's 7 million cheaper with with a CV twice as impressive. 

 

Drmic to Leverkusen - 6 million - 21, decent prospect, scoring top level goals. 

[Manwell Pablo]

Demba Ba's gone for six FFS 

 

 

We were quite clearly had (and Watford are having us again) have to have your head up your own arse not to see that. 

[shade]

Demba Ba's gone for six FFS 

 

 

We were quite clearly had (and Watford are having us again) have to have your head up your own arse not to see that. 

 

impossible to say we've been 'had' until he's played at least one season. if he scores 20 in the premier league, will we have been 'had'.

[David Guiza]

I said not much older not close, you keep putting words in my mouth though, 31 is not much older than 28, in my eyes anyway. Especially when talking target men. 

 

and one's 7 million cheaper with with a CV twice as impressive. 

 

Drmic to Leverkusen - 6 million - 21, decent prospect, scoring top level goals. 

How do we know that all these players wanted to join us anyway. Those mentioned may have wanted to stay in Italy and Germany regardless of who came in. Lambert probably would have chosen Liverpool over someone like Man City, regardless of figures, because they're his boyhood club.

Also, those players mentioned may not have fit into the system in the way that Pearson wants Ulloa to, there's so much more to it than monetary value.Ulloa may turn out to be a massively inflated price tag, he may not. But, Pearson and his team saw something in him that they feel could add to our ranks, and they may be utterly wrong, who knows just yet. Many would argue you could have got a 1000x better player than Emile Heskey for 11million, but the move worked, even if not in terms of goals.

[Manwell Pablo]

impossible to say we've been 'had' until he's played at least one season. if he scores 20 in the premier league, will we have been 'had'.

 

Of course as he's not worth it now. It will have turned out to be shrewd, however at this moment in time, he's not done enough to warrant that price at his age.

 

And I say this with some confidence. He isn't going to net 20 next season, so it's a mute point. 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

With all this talk of fees, I don't see Robinson, Pearson and the current regime paying over the odds.

 

It's easy to be armchair football managers (I dare say many of us are having played CM and Football Manager...), but I have the utmost trust and respect for Nigel's and Walshy's judgement when it comes to recruiting players. They've often spoken about so and so being right for the group - these are factors, how an individual fits into a group dynamic, that no one here can judge.

[Manwell Pablo]

How do we know that all these players wanted to join us anyway. Those mentioned may have wanted to stay in Italy and Germany regardless of who came in. Lambert probably would have chosen Liverpool over someone like Man City, regardless of figures, because they're his boyhood club.

Also, those players mentioned may not have fit into the system in the way that Pearson wants Ulloa to, there's so much more to it than monetary value.Ulloa may turn out to be a massively inflated price tag, he may not. But, Pearson and his team saw something in him that they feel could add to our ranks, and they may be utterly wrong, who knows just yet. Many would argue you could have got a 1000x better player than Emile Heskey for 11million, but the move worked, even if not in terms of goals.

 

Again totally missing the point, I was asked to find strikers who are proven at top level going for 8 million, I have done that. These are just the players who have moved, there are thousands of strikers throughout the world who would fit our system. If your asking me to go our and find a viable alternative who wants to join Leicester City for ex amount of money with the right attitude to bla bla bla I obviously cannot do that, I can't talk to players or clubs. These are mere examples of clubs doing better business than us. 

 

And I doubt Heskey was actually highly rated when he left us the cynical attitude towards him developed afterwards.

[Manwell Pablo]

To be honest I'm quite amazed about the reaction on here nearly EVERY fan I talk to in Pearson is at best concerned about that signing and even more so that we're about to go out and do it again.

[Babylon]

It's not measurable, at all. Of course it's measurable, we were considerably better than them last year. Clearly it doesn't mean we will finish above them, but it's something you use as a measure to say is x team better than y. it happened, it's a fact, it's not guess work.

 

 

Erm you asked where the sub 8 million pound strikers were I've told you, other circumstances are irrelevant. Clearly other circumstances are not irrelevant when we are talking about players we could get instead of Deeney.

 

Lambert might be 32, Ulloa may I remind you is 28, not exactly a huge gap. Errr that's like a 1/4 or a 1/3 of someones first team career, so yeah I think 4 and a half years in footballing terms is quote a lot.

 

Campbell, I don't fcking know No you don't, but the club do and we seem to have decided it was too much for us if we didn't bow to the demands. Even if we did say yes to his demands and didn't pull out, he chose another team. but  but 7.1 Million pounds is a pretty massive offset against his wages don't you think? somewhat we're going to end up in the black going for Ulloa instead, and he's more proven than either of the other two.

 

Well he was mainly used off the bench, so his record of one in four is actullaly pretty good for Bace, but  yeah your dead right actually, 3 million for an exciting 23 year old who was on the books at Barcelona certainly  is nothing compared to Troy Deeney and Ulloa for 10. Certainly see what your saying. And you know nothing about what wage he's on so your pissing in the wind.  His record is shit, the bloke was playing in a team spanking people 5-0, 8-0 and only managed 6/7 goals. Stinks of a bloke living off his hype than actually proving he's any cop, if he had he wouldn't be at stoke.

 

Madness. 

[Babylon]

Demba Ba's gone for six FFS 

Yeah Demba Ba on 100k a week... I wonder why they got a reduced fee to take him.

[Jordan]

It's not measurable, at all. Football isn't match and Physics there are two many outside factors to look at it like that.

Erm you asked where the sub 8 million pound strikers were I've told you, other circumstances are irrelevant.

Lambert might be 32, Ulloa may I remind you is 28, not exactly a huge gap.

Campbell, I don't fcking know but but 7.1 Million pounds is a pretty massive offset against his wages don't you think? somewhat we're going to end up in the black going for Ulloa instead, and he's more proven than either of the other two.

Well he was mainly used off the bench, so his record of one in four is actullaly pretty good for Bace, but yeah your dead right actually, 3 million for an exciting 23 year old who was on the books at Barcelona certainly is nothing compared to Troy Deeney and Ulloa for 10. Certainly see what your saying. And you know nothing about what wage he's on so your pissing in the wind.

Madness.

There are lots of things in football that cannot be measured, but there's also a lot more data to collect than you might think. Leicester City's scouting department actually uses a lot of math and statistical analysis when determining their transfer targets. For example, just plucking out goal scoring records for strikers is easy, but it's not great analysis, as players will perform differently in different situations. Strikers than bang them in for Club A sometimes fail to score after moving to Club B where they have different personnel, use a different system, and utilize their players differently. No doubt Leicester's staff have their methods to use their data to make decent projections on how players will perform after their surroundings change.

As for the transfer fee/wages conundrum (especially in regard to Campbell), if you look at an individual player's deal, then yes, it does make sense that a low transfer fee/free transfer can make up for a high wage.

However, this club has made no secret about its wage ceiling for all players (existing players, players out of contract that it has signed, and transfer targets) and has been fairly consistent in that regard. If the club makes an exception, it unsettles everything. For example, David Nugent just re-signed with Leicester after surely being told by the club the limits on his weekly salary. Whether or not you think Nugent is worth more than, say, the £30k/week limit the club has reportedly set, is not the point--how do you think Nugent and his teammates would react if they had just signed new contracts after being told in no uncertain terms by the club that they have a, say, £30k/week limit for new deals, only for the club to bring in a new player on £50k/week? All of a sudden, the club would have an inconsistent policy and would be negotiating in bad faith, its players would be demanding more money, and transfer targets would increase their wage demands to keep pace with their peers.

As for Bojan's value, it's plain to see why it's value has fallen as low as it has. It's probably worth it for Stoke (who have settled in the top flight and have earned Premier League revenues for several years in a row) to take a chance on someone that has plenty of potential and was considered a can't-miss prospect just a few years ago. However, there are serious questions about Bojan's drop in performance when he should be kicking on, and his ability to handle pressure.

Whether or not Ulloa and Deeney are really worth their price tags is another story, but Leicester City do not sign players--especially players that they have to spend money to buy--these days without thoroughly scouting and compiling lots of data about them, and determining how their attributes will fit in with the team's play.

[Manwell Pablo]

Yeah Demba Ba on 100k a week... I wonder why they got a reduced fee to take him.

And you think Beskitas are paying £100k a week do you.

[Babylon]

And you think Beskitas are paying £100k a week do you.

I'm sorry... 80k basic + add ons. Of which they are said to be covering the vast majority of.

[Trav Le Bleu]

All I want is what Nigel wants.

 

He just needs a helping hand.

[jayfox26]

It's not measurable, at all. Of course it's measurable, we were considerably better than them last year. Clearly it doesn't mean we will finish above them, but it's something you use as a measure to say is x team better than y. it happened, it's a fact, it's not guess work.

Erm you asked where the sub 8 million pound strikers were I've told you, other circumstances are irrelevant. Clearly other circumstances are not irrelevant when we are talking about players we could get instead of Deeney.

Lambert might be 32, Ulloa may I remind you is 28, not exactly a huge gap. Errr that's like a 1/4 or a 1/3 of someones first team career, so yeah I think 4 and a half years in footballing terms is quote a lot.

Campbell, I don't fcking know No you don't, but the club do and we seem to have decided it was too much for us if we didn't bow to the demands. Even if we did say yes to his demands and didn't pull out, he chose another team. but but 7.1 Million pounds is a pretty massive offset against his wages don't you think? somewhat we're going to end up in the black going for Ulloa instead, and he's more proven than either of the other two.

Well he was mainly used off the bench, so his record of one in four is actullaly pretty good for Bace, but yeah your dead right actually, 3 million for an exciting 23 year old who was on the books at Barcelona certainly is nothing compared to Troy Deeney and Ulloa for 10. Certainly see what your saying. And you know nothing about what wage he's on so your pissing in the wind. His record is shit, the bloke was playing in a team spanking people 5-0, 8-0 and only managed 6/7 goals. Stinks of a bloke living off his hype than actually proving he's any cop, if he had he wouldn't be at stoke.

Madness.

I agree that Deeney isn't worth £10m but the rest of your argument makes no sense. Why talk about players that are cheaper than £8m when we have no chance of signing them? Campbell was cheap, but why would we potentially ruin our great team morale by bringing in a striker that is arguably not much better than we have, and paying him more than everyone else in the squad? Campbell would not have been our best player, so why should he be our highest paid player? Pearson doesn't just look at a players ability/potential he looks at whether players have the right attitude and will fit in with our system. Prices for strikers have gone stupid now, with Fulham setting the bar when they signed McCormack and then we paid alot for Ulloa so I can understand why Watford feel they can get so much for Deeney but I don't think we should pay it. But its not just as easy as saying Stoke signed Bojan, Palace signed Campbell, Liverpool signed Lambert etc.

[Babylon]

And you think Beskitas are paying £100k a week do you.

And and just going back to another thread, where you rubbished Arthursteppes point about perspective, and that we had saved money elsewhere by picking up other players cheaply so overspending slightly wasn't the end of the world. Pearson pretty much said the same thing.

 

 

City are believed to have paid £8m up front for Ulloa, but the fee will rise depending on how successful he and the team are.

Because of the fee, there will be a huge amount of expectation on Ulloa to deliver on the pitch, and Pearson said he will work to ensure the 27-year-old is allowed to play with freedom.

 

"I will manage those expectations," said Pearson.

 

"We have paid a good fee for him but, I suppose, at Premier League level, when you see some of the deals that are done, it is up to others to put perspective on that.

 

"My expectations on him are the same as for any other player in our squad.

 

"We have got a very valuable acquisition in Marc Albrighton but he happened to be out of contract.

 

"Where do you draw the comparison? It is about getting the players you want in and, if you have a balanced view of it, you would say we have signed players who have worth but we had to pay a bit of money for one of them, and picked up others at a very good price."

Read more at http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-City-boss-Nigel-Pearson-says-price-tag/story-21941406-detail/story.html#6KyUECuOzKXmQaZL.99

[Guest ttfn]

It's not measurable, at all. Football isn't match and Physics there are two many outside factors to look at it like that.

Erm you asked where the sub 8 million pound strikers were I've told you, other circumstances are irrelevant.

Lambert might be 32, Ulloa may I remind you is 28, not exactly a huge gap.

Campbell, I don't fcking know but but 7.1 Million pounds is a pretty massive offset against his wages don't you think? somewhat we're going to end up in the black going for Ulloa instead, and he's more proven than either of the other two.

Well he was mainly used off the bench, so his record of one in four is actullaly pretty good for Bace, but yeah your dead right actually, 3 million for an exciting 23 year old who was on the books at Barcelona certainly is nothing compared to Troy Deeney and Ulloa for 10. Certainly see what your saying. And you know nothing about what wage he's on so your pissing in the wind.

Madness.

Not sure what's exciting about a striker with 14 goals in the last 3 years.

Culturally you also take a huge gamble in bringing a player in from a foreign country without having tried them out in England first, which is a large factor in the "English premium" people pay.

Also re: Campbell when you talk about the £7.1 million - let's say hypothetically Campbell wanted £50k a week and Ulloa £30k. Over a 4 year deal that is over £4 million (assuming they both wanted the same length contract), so that's over half of your difference gone there.

Then Schmeichel, Mahrez, Knockaert, James etc hear that Campbell's on £50k a week and they start wondering where their slice of that pie is - as much as you'd like to think it won't happen it would be near enough inevitable that they'd want improved contracts. So you're left with either an unhappy squad or an overpaid one.

The fact is that the "headline" fee makes up a surprisingly low % of the overall cost of a player and perhaps for the purposes of team harmony we've taken the approach that it's better to pay a large transfer fee than large wages.

Or not - for all I know they might both have wanted the same wages! But the quotes transfer fees are not quite as critical in determining value as you seem to be suggesting.

[Manwell Pablo]

 

It's not measurable, at all. Of course it's measurable, we were considerably better than them last year. Clearly it doesn't mean we will finish above them, but it's something you use as a measure to say is x team better than y. it happened, it's a fact, it's not guess work.

 

 

Erm you asked where the sub 8 million pound strikers were I've told you, other circumstances are irrelevant. Clearly other circumstances are not irrelevant when we are talking about players we could get instead of Deeney.

 

Lambert might be 32, Ulloa may I remind you is 28, not exactly a huge gap. Errr that's like a 1/4 or a 1/3 of someones first team career, so yeah I think 4 and a half years in footballing terms is quote a lot.

 

Campbell, I don't fcking know No you don't, but the club do and we seem to have decided it was too much for us if we didn't bow to the demands. Even if we did say yes to his demands and didn't pull out, he chose another team. but  but 7.1 Million pounds is a pretty massive offset against his wages don't you think? somewhat we're going to end up in the black going for Ulloa instead, and he's more proven than either of the other two.

 

Well he was mainly used off the bench, so his record of one in four is actullaly pretty good for Bace, but  yeah your dead right actually, 3 million for an exciting 23 year old who was on the books at Barcelona certainly  is nothing compared to Troy Deeney and Ulloa for 10. Certainly see what your saying. And you know nothing about what wage he's on so your pissing in the wind.  His record is shit, the bloke was playing in a team spanking people 5-0, 8-0 and only managed 6/7 goals. Stinks of a bloke living off his hype than actually proving he's any cop, if he had he wouldn't be at stoke.

 

Madness. 

 

 

It is not measurable. There are too many outside factors, x was beter than y last season but when x is signing a load of new players and y is not nescc making it's team stronger and could be playing a different formation the next year against a totally different set of variables to the season previous it is not measurable, it's a totally different equation. Means nothing, Palace were clearly the weakest of the promoted teams last season yet finished the highest the following season, despite losing their top scorer the previous year for most of the season, unmeasurable, irrelevant, it does not matter one jot what happened last season. 

 

Lambert - Four years is close enough, some players play for four years longer than others for a start off, for me when discussing players of that age it's clear they've got much less ahead of them than they have behind them. Besides the amount of goals Lambert has scored compared to Ulloa more than offsets that somewhat anyway. Obviously he'd never come here, but that's not the point nor what you asked. 

 

You said "Where are all these proven Strikers going for less than 8 Million" Not "Where are all these strikers that are going for less than 8 million that fit our structure, Pearson's vision, our wage budget and would be interested in Leicester City" So there circumstances are completely irrelevant when answering the question you asked. I am demonstrating good football business, not transfers we have missed out on. 

 

Campbell - again you just having more blind faith in the club doing the right thing as it's got us here, I don't need you to tell me the club has done what it thinks is right I am well aware they have done that the whole point is I don't agree with it. As I say, an offset of 7.1 million pounds is rather massive, 9.1 he'd have to want about 15-20k more a week than Ulloa and I think given he's been transferred for 8-10 Million pounds he's not going to be on peanuts is he?

 

Bojan - Of course his record is not great it is fairly difficult to score goals on a regular basis when you aren't on the pitch, he got somewhere between 5-25 minutes every time he notched an appearance near enough, but he's still got one in four, not bad. He's struggled since moving on but he's 23 and I assume you've seen him play so you, he quite obviously has genuine talent, just needs his career reviving, I actually don't think Stoke's or the Prem is the right move for him and he'll struggle, but that's not the point.

 

I refer you to the reply to David Guiza which is actually the point, it is painfully obvious, to me anyway, that you can do a serious amount with 15-20 Million pounds, and the fact that there is a chance that we could wax that and have Troy Deeney and Leo Ulloa to show for it makes quite sick ....tbh. 

 

I notice you've ignored the other players bought up since as well. 

[Manwell Pablo]

I'm sorry... 80k basic + add ons. Of which they are said to be covering the vast majority of.

 

Probably about 60k I bet, 70 at most. Might sound a lot, but I'd rather have one Ba than One Deeney and One Ulloa. We've enough Championship strikers here already.

[Stevosevic]

Alot of strikers come to England and don't cut it. Maybe Pearson thinks a striker that knows English football, at championship level, is less of a risk.