Manwell Pablo Posted 5 January 2015 Share Posted 5 January 2015 Agree, it's an utterly abysmal one-sided article scratching around desperately for any argument that fits her agenda. The bit about being too drunk to remember entering the hotel in particular. When it suits them these feminists are all for human rights, but the right to rehabilitation seems to be forgotten when they've got a chance to have a dig and gang up on a bloke. They are bullys, hypocrites and cowards. It's like it's payback time for the male race oppressing them for so many years, here's a sniff of a chance to get some revenge so let's jump on it. This country has laws about rehabilitating offenders, and there isn't one saying a convicted rapist can't play football, so like it or lump it they need to accept the law or campaign to get it changed. And even if it was a proper rape that would be the case. I really hope Oldham don't bottle it, but fear they will bow to the pressure. If they do, I'd welcome him with open arms here. And if it meant a few women returned their season tickets all the better ;-) That's just a bit weird, given he's nowhere near good enough to play for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Moon Posted 5 January 2015 Share Posted 5 January 2015 That's just a bit weird, given he's nowhere near good enough to play for us. We signed Jamie Vardy from Fleetwood. Ched is an international. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 5 January 2015 Share Posted 5 January 2015 Blue Moon, she didn't go back to the room with Ched Evans. She went with his friend, who was acquitted for that fact. Ched Evans let himself in to the room, sober, later on, after scamming a spare key off the night desk. He then let himself out down the fire escape afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Moon Posted 5 January 2015 Share Posted 5 January 2015 Blue Moon, she didn't go back to the room with Ched Evans. She went with his friend, who was acquitted for that fact. Ched Evans let himself in to the room, sober, later on, after scamming a spare key off the night desk. He then let himself out down the fire escape afterwards. He obviously had to be more discreet because he didn't want his Mrs finding out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samilktray Posted 5 January 2015 Share Posted 5 January 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 6 January 2015 Share Posted 6 January 2015 As an aside, I find it interesting how certain members of the same demographic that seems intent on painting all Muslims with the same brush get massively hot under the collar when feminists do the same thing to them by branding them all potential rapists. Generalisations are alright until they're about the group you're part of, right? As far as this individual case goes, I've spoken my piece before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Moon Posted 6 January 2015 Share Posted 6 January 2015 As an aside, I find it interesting how certain members of the same demographic that seems intent on painting all Muslims with the same brush get massively hot under the collar when feminists do the same thing to them by branding them all potential rapists. Generalisations are alright until they're about the group you're part of, right? As far as this individual case goes, I've spoken my piece before. Whereabouts on here has anyone generalised about Muslims? Can I have a quote please? Or is this just some leftie nonsense to try to discredit those whose opinions don't match your own by branding them racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 6 January 2015 Share Posted 6 January 2015 Whereabouts on here has anyone generalised about Muslims? Can I have a quote please? Or is this just some leftie nonsense to try to discredit those whose opinions don't match your own by branding them racist? http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/98371-gunmen-take-sydney-cafe-hostage/ http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/97725-make-leicester-british-channel-4-next-week/ http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/97209-multiculturalism-has-resulted-in-division-separatism-and-distrust/ http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/96837-the-rotherham-child-abuse-scandal/ Plenty of generalisations in those four threads alone. I'm working right now but if you want individual quote mining I would be happy to oblige you when I have time. But in any case, quotes on here or no...is it not a fact that the people who do the generalisation regarding Muslims are overwhelmingly white men - the same demographic that are targetted most often by the militant feminist wing? I thought that was pretty obvious. And of course, neither generalisation is OK. It's just the double standard that gets me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Moon Posted 6 January 2015 Share Posted 6 January 2015 http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/98371-gunmen-take-sydney-cafe-hostage/ http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/97725-make-leicester-british-channel-4-next-week/ http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/97209-multiculturalism-has-resulted-in-division-separatism-and-distrust/ http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/96837-the-rotherham-child-abuse-scandal/ Plenty of generalisations in those four threads alone. I'm working right now but if you want individual quote mining I would be happy to oblige you when I have time. But in any case, quotes on here or no...is it not a fact that the people who do the generalisation regarding Muslims are overwhelmingly white men - the same demographic that are targetted most often by the militant feminist wing? I thought that was pretty obvious. And of course, neither generalisation is OK. It's just the double standard that gets me. I haven't even posted in any of those threads! Just because most terrorists are Muslim doesn't mean most Muslims are terrorists! Going back to Ched. Fact is this kind of stuff goes on with footballers in hotel rooms up and down the country every weekend. Remember Steffen Freund with his extra-martial shag in La Manga which he tried to cover up? Didn't see everyone on here then jumping up and down when the girls decided they'd been raped. I'm not claiming Ched's a nice bloke. He cheated on his Mrs. He's probably an absolute **** like most footballers. These militant feminists will look to attack at the slightest opportunity without much interest in the facts. Then when the shoes on the other foot, they'll be banging on about human rights. Can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 6 January 2015 Share Posted 6 January 2015 We signed Jamie Vardy from Fleetwood. Ched is an international. so is Danilo Rinaldi do you want to sign him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 6 January 2015 Share Posted 6 January 2015 I haven't even posted in any of those threads! Just because most terrorists are Muslim doesn't mean most Muslims are terrorists! Going back to Ched. Fact is this kind of stuff goes on with footballers in hotel rooms up and down the country every weekend. Remember Steffen Freund with his extra-martial shag in La Manga which he tried to cover up? Didn't see everyone on here then jumping up and down when the girls decided they'd been raped. I'm not claiming Ched's a nice bloke. He cheated on his Mrs. He's probably an absolute **** like most footballers. These militant feminists will look to attack at the slightest opportunity without much interest in the facts. Then when the shoes on the other foot, they'll be banging on about human rights. Can't have it both ways. That's not surprising given the forum didn't even exist when that incident occured. And Steffen Freund was never accused of rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Guiza Posted 6 January 2015 Share Posted 6 January 2015 I haven't even posted in any of those threads! Just because most terrorists are Muslim doesn't mean most Muslims are terrorists! Going back to Ched. Fact is this kind of stuff goes on with footballers in hotel rooms up and down the country every weekend. Remember Steffen Freund with his extra-martial shag in La Manga which he tried to cover up? Didn't see everyone on here then jumping up and down when the girls decided they'd been raped. I'm not claiming Ched's a nice bloke. He cheated on his Mrs. He's probably an absolute **** like most footballers. These militant feminists will look to attack at the slightest opportunity without much interest in the facts. Then when the shoes on the other foot, they'll be banging on about human rights. Can't have it both ways. I think I was about 13 at the time this happened so I probably didn't have a great deal to say about it at all. But, from what I remember Freund had consenting sex with one of the women, who then accused 3 other players of rape. The 3 players were all then found innocent. Don't really see how that's comparable if I am right with those points. Out of interest, what do you mean by this sentence? What's an example of the shoe being on the other foot, and why shouldn't they be allowed to give their two pence worth on a footballer's career in the aftermath of a conviction for raping a woman? Just wondered what you meant is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 6 January 2015 Share Posted 6 January 2015 I think another term should be coined for this type of rape, what Evans did was wrong but it's not as bad as violently raping a girl, I think that's the issue for some people. This is spot on. As has been said this girl didn't even know she had been raped. Rape and Rapist are horrid words and it's pretty scandalous Evans is branded the same as a bloke who attacks a woman in a park with a knife and threatens to kill her. I know that's reflected in the sentence but it's bloody harsh to be called a rapist for what he's done. If so given what footballers get upto you can guarantee every team in the lands supporters are cheering at least a couple of 'rapists' every week without knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted 6 January 2015 Share Posted 6 January 2015 This is spot on. As has been said this girl didn't even know she had been raped. Rape and Rapist are horrid words and it's pretty scandalous Evans is branded the same as a bloke who attacks a woman in a park with a knife and threatens to kill her. I know that's reflected in the sentence but it's bloody harsh to be called a rapist for what he's done. If so given what footballers get upto you can guarantee every team in the lands supporters are cheering at least a couple of 'rapists' every week without knowing. As much as I agree, knowing whether she's been raped or not doesn't make it any less of a crime. At the end of the day he's been found guilty so will always be branded a rapist, wrongfully accused or not. People need to get off their high horses though, murderers are currently playing league football and no one is bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 6 January 2015 Share Posted 6 January 2015 As much as I agree, knowing whether she's been raped or not doesn't make it any less of a crime. At the end of the day he's been found guilty so will always be branded a rapist, wrongfully accused or not. People need to get off their high horses though, murderers are currently playing league football and no one is bothered. Yeah you are right, the slight bit of sympathy I have for Ched is that we all know he's done what hundreds if not thousands of football players have done but he's lost his career for it because someone decided to convince his victim she had been. Fully with you on the last point, what McCormack, King and Hughes have done is ten times worse. No moral outrage and Twitter accounts set up to organise 20, 000 name petitions against him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 6 January 2015 Share Posted 6 January 2015 I haven't even posted in any of those threads! Just because most terrorists are Muslim doesn't mean most Muslims are terrorists! Going back to Ched. Fact is this kind of stuff goes on with footballers in hotel rooms up and down the country every weekend. Remember Steffen Freund with his extra-martial shag in La Manga which he tried to cover up? Didn't see everyone on here then jumping up and down when the girls decided they'd been raped. I'm not claiming Ched's a nice bloke. He cheated on his Mrs. He's probably an absolute **** like most footballers. These militant feminists will look to attack at the slightest opportunity without much interest in the facts. Then when the shoes on the other foot, they'll be banging on about human rights. Can't have it both ways. No problem, I wasn't referring to you specifically, just pointing out that the double standard exists and it's not good. I agree that to us there appears to be doubt regarding whether this was rape or not, but evidently the jury was satisfied beyond reasonable doubt, and they have much more knowledge about it than we do. I also agree that there's a double standard held by many hardline feminists too, particularly with cases like this where things are up in the air. There's a lot of hypocrisy on all sides. Though, all things considered, I wouldn't want the man near my club. Nor would I want McCormick or anyone else who has done serious time, especially when they've seriously harmed or even killed another person as the cause of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 6 January 2015 Share Posted 6 January 2015 Yeah you are right, the slight bit of sympathy I have for Ched is that we all know he's done what hundreds if not thousands of football players have done but he's lost his career for it because someone decided to convince his victim she had been. Fully with you on the last point, what McCormack, King and Hughes have done is ten times worse. No moral outrage and Twitter accounts set up to organise 20, 000 name petitions against him though. I think you and Wookie are onto something with degrees of rape, Matt. We have them for other violent crimes, so why not this one? There are notable differences in circumstances as you put it and that should be reflected in the type of offence someone is charged with. I think the last thing you've said here is a bit of a strawman though. Just because other cvnt footballers have escaped moral outrage for the shit they've done doesn't mean Evans should too. Totally agree what they've done is much worse, but people should be taking a stand against all of them, rather than none of them. In any case, I think we covered how we both viewed rape and the way society and the courts treat it earlier on in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 6 January 2015 Share Posted 6 January 2015 Personally, I think that article is piss-poor, and it's fairly clear from what she's written that she has not looked at the evidence - or, if she has, she's made her mind up anyway. The case is a very difficult one. On the one hand, he was stupid for going to the hotel room and, if he is telling the truth, agreeing to the complainant's demand that he f*** her (which is apparently what she said): she was drunk and, in the cold light of day, any man who has sex with a drunk woman is asking for trouble. On the other hand, there is absolutely no evidence - other than his own statement - that he did have sex with her, and no physical evidence of rape at all. There was absolutely no DNA evidence linking him with the girl, and if he had chosen to deny it altogether, he might not even have ended up in court. I've read as much about this case as I can, including both reasoned and unreasonable commentaries. On the evidence, such as I have been able to read, it is not at all clear that he should have been found guilty "beyond all reasonable doubt". Apart from anything else, if McDonald - his co-accused - was not guilty, how the hell was he found guilty? It would not be at all surprising if, on appeal, a retrial is ordered, or the conviction is quashed. it would not be the first time that the much-vaunted British legal system had brought in the wrong verdict. What will be interesting is the attitude of people like Lucy Hunter Johnston: presumably, she will think he is guilty anyway, because all men are rapists. Whilst not a great article it does make valid points. Currently Evans is a convicted rapist and hasn't completed his sentence.Knowing no other facts about the case that is enough to make you think he shouldn't be allowed to play football. I do think Evans would be better served trying to clear his name rather than finding a club. He can express regret and remorse and condemn the actions of some of his fans without admitting guilt. He could also try and educate people and use his experience as a warning to others and to women on the dangers of getting drunk. I do think there has been a miscarriage of justice as I don't see any evidence that Ched didn't believe he had consent, but that is irrelevant as my opinion doesn't mean anything and he has to clear his name legally, until he does he can't expect to play football again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted 7 January 2015 Share Posted 7 January 2015 I haven't even posted in any of those threads! Just because most terrorists are Muslim doesn't mean most Muslims are terrorists! Going back to Ched. Fact is this kind of stuff goes on with footballers in hotel rooms up and down the country every weekend. Remember Steffen Freund with his extra-martial shag in La Manga which he tried to cover up? Didn't see everyone on here then jumping up and down when the girls decided they'd been raped. I'm not claiming Ched's a nice bloke. He cheated on his Mrs. He's probably an absolute **** like most footballers. These militant feminists will look to attack at the slightest opportunity without much interest in the facts. Then when the shoes on the other foot, they'll be banging on about human rights. Can't have it both ways. Steffen Freund straight up admitted he shagged one of the ladies--we knew that before he even flew back from Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Moon Posted 7 January 2015 Share Posted 7 January 2015 Steffen Freund straight up admitted he shagged one of the ladies--we knew that before he even flew back from Spain. Not immediately, he had a Mrs and didn't want her finding out, similar to Ched. When he realised the boys were getting accused and they'd picked the wrong suspects out the lineup (some of whom were in bed and hadn't even met the women!) he raised his hand then. Knowing he was busted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 7 January 2015 Share Posted 7 January 2015 Terms agreed with Oldham according to SSN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramboacdc Posted 7 January 2015 Share Posted 7 January 2015 i just cant see why oldham would look at him. i mean i know they are struggling but this guy is like a dirty bomb right now. why even look at him?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingcarr21 Posted 7 January 2015 Share Posted 7 January 2015 Wow things are going to be interesting now at Oldham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 7 January 2015 Share Posted 7 January 2015 I'm sure there will be outrage on twitter/social media for a week or two then people will move onto the next thing they're super passionate about. He's just going to have to deal with fans at the grounds for a while as they will have longer memories ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 7 January 2015 Share Posted 7 January 2015 i just cant see why oldham would look at him. i mean i know they are struggling but this guy is like a dirty bomb right now. why even look at him?! Things will die down they always do, once the initial outrage subsides and the press move on to something else the spotlight will be off them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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