DEMANN Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 I respect his principles, and understand the reasons behind them, but I can't help wondering why he chooses to live and work in England.
Harry - LCFC Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 For those who don't know, McClean turned his back when the national anthem was being played in a friendly recently. That's what this thread is about. I could accept him refusing to wear the poppy (although I still disagreed with him) but I find this incident rather unpleasant. Essentially he appears to be saying that Great Britain can be reduced down to one act committed some time ago and that he continues to hold us guilty for it. The dislike of other peoples wouldn't be looked upon kindly if it came from the a newspaper columnist or a politician. It shouldn't to be looked kindly upon if it comes from some petulant attention-seeker in a football shirt.
Mark_w Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 I could accept him refusing to wear the poppy (although I still disagreed with him) but I find this incident rather unpleasant. Essentially he appears to be saying that Great Britain can be reduced down to one act committed some time ago and that he continues to hold us guilty for it. The dislike of other peoples wouldn't be looked upon kindly if it came from the a newspaper columnist or a politician. It shouldn't to be looked kindly upon if it comes from some petulant attention-seeker in a football shirt. Does he dislike other peoples or does he dislike the symbolism of a flag, a poppy or a song? I mean I'm not sure it's the best way to make the point he appears to be trying to make, but I think you're going a bit over the top.
Finnegan Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 One act committed a long time ago? Bit dismissive. He was born and raised in Derry, in a culture of passionate republicanism, in the wake of bloody Sunday, battle of bogside, et all. He's a product of his environment just like we are, sadly his environment was a pretty awful one at times.
lgfualol Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 Did he think turning around would make him not hear it or something
Unabomber Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 We play our national anthem and you turn around, that's what it's all about. OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM.
Leicesterpool Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 I hate the guy and hate him even more, very disrespectful and I can imagine the West Brom fans even being little unhappy about that aswell.
Simmsy Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 Saw this on the right and got worried it was in the transfer forum.
Harry - LCFC Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 Does he dislike other peoples or does he dislike the symbolism of a flag or a poppy? I mean I'm not sure it's the best way to make the point he appears to be trying to make, but I think you're going a bit over the top. I don't know if this has already happened but imagine the scene if English fans booed the German national anthem. How would we interpret that? Well, we'd probably say that they are holding Germany guilty for the atrocities committed in WW2 and that they refused to disassociate present day Germany with those atrocities. I interpret McClean's actions in much the same way. The point he appears to be making is that Britain to him represents a force for evil (exaggeration perhaps but can't think of a better word).
MPH Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 I do not understand why someone would be in a country that provides them with a living and a comfortable life style and yet be so disrespectful to it. Without smtrying to sound like an EDL dimwit, would he not be happier living back in Derry?
Leicesterpool Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 He makes comments about the Bloody Sunday, what about 21st November 1974 in Birmingham where innocent people were killed in a restaurant by the IRA.
Mark_w Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 I don't know if this has already happened but imagine the scene if English fans booed the German national anthem. How would we interpret that? Well, we'd probably say that they are holding Germany guilty for the atrocities committed in WW2 and that they refused to disassociate present day Germany with those atrocities. I interpret McClean's actions in much the same way. The point he appears to be making is that Britain to him represents a force for evil (exaggeration perhaps but can't think of a better word). You don't think the programme of denazification and the changes to the National Anthem of Germany, coupled with the fall of the Nazi party and fascism as a major political force, might make those two scenarios slightly different?
DEMANN Posted 19 July 2015 Author Posted 19 July 2015 For those who don't know, McClean turned his back when the national anthem was being played in a friendly recently. That's what this thread is about. I could accept him refusing to wear the poppy (although I still disagreed with him) but I find this incident rather unpleasant. Essentially he appears to be saying that Great Britain can be reduced down to one act committed some time ago and that he continues to hold us guilty for it. The dislike of other peoples wouldn't be looked upon kindly if it came from the a newspaper columnist or a politician. It shouldn't to be looked kindly upon if it comes from some petulant attention-seeker in a football shirt. I should've expanded. Apologies.
AKCJ Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 Who cares? As if a Brit has never booed another national anthem.
howlinmadmurfdoc Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 I believe he had family members killed on Bloody Sunday.
Tuna Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 I believe he had family members killed on Bloody Sunday. No.
howlinmadmurfdoc Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 No. I read it wrong, one of his grandfathers died in the war, either way the Irish have as much reason to dislike us as we do them.
Harry - LCFC Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 You don't think the programme of denazification and the changes to the National Anthem of Germany, coupled with the fall of the Nazi party and fascism as a major political force, might make those two scenarios slightly different? Slightly different, but not fundamentally different. I agree that the events you've listed make it pretty much impossible to deny that Germany has now totally disassociated itself with Nazism. But just because Britain hasn't undergone similar political change doesn't mean it can still be associated with past conflicts. Documentation of the kind Germany has is nice as it provides tangible evidence but it's a change in behaviour that we really need to be looking for. Britain does not oppress the Irish with military force, nor is there any intent to do so. That change of behaviour is quite sufficient in my view. I read it wrong, one of his grandfathers died in the war, either way the Irish have as much reason to dislike us as we do them. Nope. I've explained to Mark why I think the Irish have no good reason to hold Britain responsible for past actions, basically it's because there has been an obvious shift in attitude and behaviour. In the same way it would be wrong of British citizens to attack the Irish for beliefs and actions that no-one in Ireland really supports anymore.
Mark_w Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 Slightly different, but not fundamentally different. I agree that the events you've listed make it pretty much impossible to deny that Germany has now totally disassociated itself with Nazism. But just because Britain hasn't undergone similar political change doesn't mean it can still be associated with past conflicts. Documentation of the kind Germany has is nice as it provides tangible evidence but it's a change in behaviour that we really need to be looking for. Britain does not oppress the Irish with military force, nor is there any intent to do so. That change of behaviour is quite sufficient in my view. Nope. I've explained to Mark why I think the Irish have no good reason to hold Britain responsible for past actions, basically it's because there has been an obvious shift in attitude and behaviour. In the same way it would be wrong of British citizens to attack the Irish for beliefs and actions that no-one in Ireland really supports anymore. Well our government only issued an apology for Bloody Sunday what a few years ago? I think the resentment lasting a little while after an apology that took 30-odd years seems pretty understandable. Particularly as there are perpetrators of this crime still alive, some I believe unpunished? I certainly don't think turning your back on a National Anthem/Flag, or refusing to wear a poppy is disrespectful to the entirety of the United Kingdom and the people who make it up. It's seems to me to be a comment about a system that allowed this to happen and as far as I'm aware (I don't know a great deal about it I must admit - I'm sure someone can put me right on anything I've got wrong) hasn't yet given the people of James McClean's community justice. As I say I'm not sure it's the best way to make that statement, but I don't see why I should hate him for doing it.
katieakita Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 Not the brightest idea to introduce himself to the fans. Has created a very large rod for his own back.
CosbehFox Posted 19 July 2015 Posted 19 July 2015 He's clearly standing up for his belief (he was raised in the same area as Derry to six victims of Bloody Sunday). No issue with that. Just don't expect to have sympathic support back.
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