hackneyfox Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 My head says they will probably go at some point in the near future, Claudio will want his own people and now he has a good idea on what he has the transition is pretty much complete. I don't think money would be an issue as we'd probably pay up the difference owed if they were to take a lower wage. Why would Ranieri want his own people if Walsh & Shakespeare are doing a better job? There is no way we'd make up their drop in salary should they leave, why on earth do you think we would? I think NFP should take the first job he's offered (within reason), don't believe he can afford to be picky, fans of many other clubs think he's an arrogant bully (see the Sunderland fans posts when they thought he was joining them).
Captain... Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 - I've already said that I don't accept your suggestion that this is a "loyalty" issue for Walsh & Shakespeare. I hope they stay and tend to believe that they will, but wouldn't condemn them in the least if they chose to go. - If, for whatever reason, you changed job (and I think you said that you did so recently), would you be guilty of disloyalty? - To the limited extent to which I understand LCFC events, I agree that they should be praised highly - but "done more than anyone"?! More than the players, Pearson, Ranieri, the owners.....?! - "Constantly questioned"?! I have no delusions that they'll care about my opinions or anyone else's on here, in the unlikely event that they become aware of this "constant questioning" - I'll start whatever threads I like, thanks, subject to forum admin accepting them.... If you don't like the thread, what the fvck are you doing in here? Plus, I added new elements, I think (I've not seen Benetti & Sanders discussed elsewhere). Plus, issues discussed previously sometimes recur if their relevance is heightened by events: e.g. the distinct prospect that Pearson will get a new job soon (speculation, I know). - Speculation? "They are not going to jump ship..."; "They will also have a lot of loyalty to players..."; etc. Basically, the 3rd and 4th paragraphs of your original post are nothing but speculation (even if I agree with some of it) - unless you assume that you deal in facts where others deal in opinion/speculation? - I can cope fine with having my views scrutinised, thanks. The fact that I'm here arguing with you shows that. If I agree with criticism of my views, I'll say so. If someone criticises me unreasonably, I'll also say so. But I certainly don't see the point in someone, like you, entering a debate that he doesn't want to exist purely to say that the debate shouldn't exist....and then going on to express opinions on one side of that debate, fling about accusations etc. etc. I've wasted enough time on your contribution, so will leave it unless you come up with something new and interesting....or maybe someone else has some inside knowledge about Benetti's role at the club or how Shakespeare & Walsh work with Claudio? Was I disloyal for leaving my old job? No because a better job came up that suited my personal needs better. Maybe disloyal is the wrong word, but this is football and we deal in tribal loyalties it is a big part of why football is so popular. If an established player leaves your club for a lower club, for more money he would be branded a traitor or disloyal. If Pearson had ended up at Villa and Vardy signed for them in January, people would call him disloyal. We have a connection with the club and we like to believe players and staff do too. If a player left for personal or family reasons, non-football related reasons, or even for a much bigger club it would be different. They have done more than anyone as they have been involved from the League one campaign to today, apart from their brief hiatus to Hull, they are the only consistent from League one to here, apart from Andy King and hence that comment. I didn't say don't start a thread, post what you like, and I will do the same, but don't get personal when someone disagrees. I was actually hoping from the thread title that it would be some insight into what Benetti and others do at the club as I am not sure how the dynamic works, but it seems to be working. I don't think it is speculation to say they will have a loyalty to players, you will build relationships with players and staff they have worked with for a long time, and not just Pearson, they will obviously have a good relationship with Pearson, but it is not the only one they will have formed after over 5 years working with the club. Walsh leads up the scouting team, he has developed it over years, it is not as simple as just going to work for his old boss again, it is saying good bye to his current team. Maybe I should have said I don't think they we will jump ship, rather than they won't, that is my opinion and it is because they have invested a lot of professional time and energy in this club and should be very proud of where it is now and where it is heading and I would expect they would want to be a part of it as opposed to joining Pearson at a mid table championship club.
Guest MattP Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 Why would Ranieri want his own people if Walsh & Shakespeare are doing a better job? There is no way we'd make up their drop in salary should they leave, why on earth do you think we would? I think NFP should take the first job he's offered (within reason), don't believe he can afford to be picky, fans of many other clubs think he's an arrogant bully (see the Sunderland fans posts when they thought he was joining them). Well he's already started bringing some of his own people in, as Alf has already pointed out Benneti is his usual assistant, I don't see any reason to believe that won't again be the case at some point in the future. If the wanted to leave, Claudio was happy with that it's possible we might pay the different, we did the same with Neil Danns and Jermaine Beckford to leave us instead of just having them hanging around. I doubt NFP (still seriously?) really gives a shit what anyone really thinks about what job he should take, I personally think he'll take his time, what good would it do him just to take the first job that comes along even if he was guessing from the outside it would be a disaster? He's coming off a job where he took a team from mid table in the Championship to Premier League safety, he's not in Chris Ramsey territory of begging for work. He'll be sought out himself.
Thracian Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 It's worry about nothing. Why either would even consider leaving is beyond me. It could be that Leicester are involved in the most exciting chapter in their entire history. Why would you not want to be part of that, especially having done so much already? Furthermore if our owners asked for our trust over the reason/s Pearson was dismissed, is it not reasonable to wonder if his former sidekicks might have been cheesed off for Pearson possibly compromising their own positions as well? And in electing to invite them to be part of his backroom staff, would Ranieri not have talked to them about their feelings and commitment? All the above is speculation of course but they hardly seem like a management group where anyone's working under suffrance. Quite the contrary. They seem to be working together as effectively as any I can remember. Again, why would any of the parties wish to change that for the risks and time needed to build starting and building somewhere worthwhile somewhere else?
fuchsntf Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 Why would Ranieri want his own people if Walsh & Shakespeare are doing a better job? There is no way we'd make up their drop in salary should they leave, why on earth do you think we would? I think NFP should take the first job he's offered (within reason), don't believe he can afford to be picky, fans of many other clubs think he's an arrogant bully (see the Sunderland fans posts when they thought he was joining them). Sunderlands forum, for or against NP is no proof that "fans of many other clubs think hes an arrogant bully" The statement itself shows ignorant arrogance. Where in hell in the past has he shown he his a bully. Plus nearly all managers tend to show arrogance. Making Stupid snidey statements to try and prove an opinion, only shows immaturity in any reasoning.
theessexfox Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 Well he's already started bringing some of his own people in, as Alf has already pointed out Benneti is his usual assistant, I don't see any reason to believe that won't again be the case at some point in the future. If the wanted to leave, Claudio was happy with that it's possible we might pay the different, we did the same with Neil Danns and Jermaine Beckford to leave us instead of just having them hanging around. I doubt NFP (still seriously?) really gives a shit what anyone really thinks about what job he should take, I personally think he'll take his time, what good would it do him just to take the first job that comes along even if he was guessing from the outside it would be a disaster? He's coming off a job where he took a team from mid table in the Championship to Premier League safety, he's not in Chris Ramsey territory of begging for work. He'll be sought out himself. It seems to me that Shakey and Walsh are fairly more central and integral to the first team at the moment than Danns and Beckford were - 'hanging around'? Really? EDIT: Missed the 'if they want to leave' which means I may have missed the point, but at present they seem happy to be working with Ranieri.
Corky Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 Why would Ranieri want his own people if Walsh & Shakespeare are doing a better job? There is no way we'd make up their drop in salary should they leave, why on earth do you think we would? I think NFP should take the first job he's offered (within reason), don't believe he can afford to be picky, fans of many other clubs think he's an arrogant bully (see the Sunderland fans posts when they thought he was joining them). He'll get a Championship job at least. In six full seasons as a manager he's had two promotions, two play-offs and a Premier League survival. Managers who've done far less (possibly being in the right place at the right time like Ramsey) have acquired decent roles. He can't be too choosy but Fulham or QPR would suit I reckon. As for Shakespeare and Walsh, I think we're in the right time for them to stay. Six weeks ago it might've been different but now they are at a club going forward at a rate of knots with a good reputation beginning to emerge. Ranieri wants them to stay and is still giving a prominent role to both so I'd be surprised if they went back to the Championship.
ealingfox Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 Problem is the Champ clubs sacking their managers are ones either trying to stay up or ones that are desperate to go up this season. Apart from Huddersfield who are neither and are either stupid or deluded. I imagine Pearson thinks himself above most of the bottom-half Champ clubs (and rightly so) but he won't take any of the top-half jobs promising promotion this season. So we have some time I think because he'll wait for the perfect job for him. Unfortunately, all things considered, all signs point to Forest, assuming Doggo Freedman gets his P45 soon. We must hope Pearson doesn't want to work under that absolute fruitcake Fawaz.
Dan Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 I really wish people would stop speculating about the loyalty of Walsh and Shakespeare to the club. They have both been great for this club in both spells and done a brilliant job in helping the club transition from Pearson to Ranieri. They are not going to jump ship as soon as Pearson gets job, that relies first on Pearson getting a job, then on Pearson being able to recruit his own back room staff, his new employer agreeing to the wages of Shakespeare and Walsh, which are premier league, and the possibility of having to pay compensation for them, finally on the club being attractive enough for them to leave a club doing well in the top division, largely down to them. They built this team as much as Pearson did over two spells and are continuing in its progress, they may have some loyalty to Pearson, but they will also have loyalty to a lot of the players and staff and fans here. Why would they risk all of that to follow Pearson, a man who shot himself in the foot and talked his way out of a great job in the summer and they could easily have followed had we recruited a manager who insisted on all his own men. Pearson built a squad on tight bonds. I'd imagine there was a lot there with those two. I'd not rule it out. As for Benetti... definitely think we look a better side technically than we did. Look at Vardy's first touch for an example. The improvement in it is frightening.
Alf Bentley Posted 10 November 2015 Author Posted 10 November 2015 Was I disloyal for leaving my old job? No because a better job came up that suited my personal needs better. Maybe disloyal is the wrong word, but this is football and we deal in tribal loyalties it is a big part of why football is so popular. If an established player leaves your club for a lower club, for more money he would be branded a traitor or disloyal. If Pearson had ended up at Villa and Vardy signed for them in January, people would call him disloyal. We have a connection with the club and we like to believe players and staff do too. If a player left for personal or family reasons, non-football related reasons, or even for a much bigger club it would be different. They have done more than anyone as they have been involved from the League one campaign to today, apart from their brief hiatus to Hull, they are the only consistent from League one to here, apart from Andy King and hence that comment. I didn't say don't start a thread, post what you like, and I will do the same, but don't get personal when someone disagrees. I was actually hoping from the thread title that it would be some insight into what Benetti and others do at the club as I am not sure how the dynamic works, but it seems to be working. I don't think it is speculation to say they will have a loyalty to players, you will build relationships with players and staff they have worked with for a long time, and not just Pearson, they will obviously have a good relationship with Pearson, but it is not the only one they will have formed after over 5 years working with the club. Walsh leads up the scouting team, he has developed it over years, it is not as simple as just going to work for his old boss again, it is saying good bye to his current team. Maybe I should have said I don't think they we will jump ship, rather than they won't, that is my opinion and it is because they have invested a lot of professional time and energy in this club and should be very proud of where it is now and where it is heading and I would expect they would want to be a part of it as opposed to joining Pearson at a mid table championship club. I've no reason to believe that Walsh or Shakespeare would want to leave and rejoin NP. On balance, I tend to believe that they'll stay. I certainly hope they do, as the current management team seems to be working well. But I - and you - might be wrong about that. They might not enjoy working with Ranieri or he might have just wanted them there for the transition. I hope neither is the case. Ranieri comes across as a likeable, reasonable man, as they do, so hopefully not. But I know that in the past I've left what were perceived by others to be "good jobs" because the job didn't suit me or I didn't get on with my line manager. I've also stayed in "poor jobs" because I enjoyed the work or got on particularly well with colleagues. Players or managers sometimes leave for lower clubs because they're no longer wanted (e.g. Nugent) or because they'd feel happier at that smaller club (e.g. Pardew). Re. Benetti: I'm just curious as to how he works with Shakespeare. I have no knowledge myself - indeed, I didn't even know he was at the club, that's how "NITK" I am. There are a handful of slightly "ITK" people on here, so hopefully one of them may offer an explanation. I don't see him as some sort of Trojan horse for a sudden influx of Italian coaches, though. I'm not getting paranoid, just curious. You didn't say "don't start a thread", but did say you wished people would stop speculating about W&S' "loyalty", that it was insulting to them and that it was "needless" to "start a whole new thread"....pretty much the same thing. Sorry I got a bit "personal", but it seemed a perfectly good thread to me, so I didn't appreciate those comments. FT is supposed to be a fun place where people can gas about whatever they like, within reason, without others suggesting they shouldn't be discussing what they're discussing or that they're questioning people's loyalty or insulting them by merely speculating. Got to go out now, anyway. See you around. Interesting times whatever happens - and I do hope the current management team stays in place, and am inclined to agree with you that it will. Hope we're right.
Max Power Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 Could maybe see Shakey going but Walsh would stay. Both would be foolish to leave our club of our size, position and potential for bloody Fulham or someone.
The_77 Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 From all appearances, Shakey and Walsh seem to be very happy at Leicester; I'm not too worried about them. Could there be a clause in Nigel's termination that wouldn't allow him to poach staff? FWIW, Walsh will be on Radio Five Live tonight at 7:30.
Bert Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 Shakespeare and Matt Reeves will be going. Not sure about Walsh.
Stevosevic Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 Shakespeare and Matt Reeves will be going. Not sure about Walsh. To where?
JonesLCFC Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 Why would Ranieri want his own people if Walsh & Shakespeare are doing a better job? There is no way we'd make up their drop in salary should they leave, why on earth do you think we would? I think NFP should take the first job he's offered (within reason), don't believe he can afford to be picky, fans of many other clubs think he's an arrogant bully (see the Sunderland fans posts when they thought he was joining them). NFP? Really? Do us a favour and stay on Bentleys Roof.
hackneyfox Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 Sunderlands forum, for or against NP is no proof that "fans of many other clubs think hes an arrogant bully" The statement itself shows ignorant arrogance. Where in hell in the past has he shown he his a bully. Plus nearly all managers tend to show arrogance. Making Stupid snidey statements to try and prove an opinion, only shows immaturity in any reasoning. I don't personally know a fan of any other football team that likes NFP, and the descriptions 'arrogant' and 'a bully' keep cropping up. The Sunderland job was the first one he was linked with and we saw the reaction of many of their fans on their forum, I didn't say he was a bully, I have no proof that he is but that is the way he is perceived by many. Still you just lash out personally when someone points out that NFP is not as loved in the boroad world of football as he is on here.
hackneyfox Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 NFP? Really? Do us a favour and stay on Bentleys Roof. You clearly don't understand the meaning of NFP so do me a favour and calm down. People are allowed to have an opinion that you and others don't agree with without some fool telling them to leave the board or follow another club.
hackneyfox Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 Shakespeare and Matt Reeves will be going. Not sure about Walsh. They told you this personally did they? Surely if you know this then the Ranieri and the owners would also know and would be sidelining them.
hackneyfox Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 Walsh has just described himself, Shakespeare & NFP as a team.
st albans fox Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 Walsh has just described himself, Shakespeare & NFP as a team. They were - they might be again at some point in the future Pointless worrying about what might happen if x and y do
Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 I think they will stay because reasons I couldn't possibly know and more reasons imo.
ealingfox Posted 10 November 2015 Posted 10 November 2015 I did notice that Steve Walsh wasn't on the big squad photo poster despite some absolute no-marks being in there. Read into that what you will.
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