Manchester United (h) post match thread 0 - 3

[jammie82uk]

After watching the highlights to try get a better all round perspective from watching it at the king power earlier 

 

noticed that they didn't include the Bailly kickout and stamp on Vardy, Mata should have seen Red 

 

awful defending from Huth no idea what he was doing for the first 

 

Fuchs slow to engage waiting for the winger to come to him and then still failed to get anywhere near to stopping the cross 

then it's ridiculous how ibrahimovic manages to have a free shot despite having 3 players around him 

 

I also thought Fuchs was to solely to blame for the third until watching the replay and seeing Morgan 5 yards behind everyone else playing everyone onside because he followed the striker 

 

What was telling as well was after the first went in Morgan with is head down sunken shoulders seemingly with no positively 

 

lets just hope this new defender turns out to be semi decent and can get a game although I don't see him ousting Morgan or Huth anytime soon 

 

 

[Parafox]

Goodbye Kasper you deserve to be at a better club

[Dan]

6 hours ago, AjcW said:

It's all a bit... Newcastle 

Seen plenty of Newcastle fans comparing us to them actually.

 

That's what we've become now. We've become that kind of ****ing shambolic mess.

[Dan]

Some of that ****ing defending. Genuinely staggering.

[Tuna]

25 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Seen plenty of Newcastle fans comparing us to them actually.

 

That's what we've become now. We've become that kind of ****ing shambolic mess.

I thought this myself. The simularities are there.

 

[Dan]

Just now, Tuna said:

I thought this myself. The simularities are there.

 

Clubs like them and Villa are what I felt we were exploiting. Absolutely rotten clubs that were forever going to open the door to smaller clubs like us to establish ourselves. I just cannot believe they're what we've become already. Pure ****ing poison.

[Guest ttfn]

6 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Clubs like them and Villa are what I felt we were exploiting. Absolutely rotten clubs that were forever going to open the door to smaller clubs like us to establish ourselves. I just cannot believe they're what we've become already. Pure ****ing poison.

And so quickly as well - this has all happened in the space of about 9 months. Newcastle and Villa have been badly mismanaged for a decade or longer.

[Guest ttfn]

Three specific observations from yesterday:

 

1) Wes Morgan is not showing leadership qualities. Not only his is own performance level routinely extremely poor, his body language and attitude on the pitch isn't that of a senior pro let alone a leader. Case in point - second half we get a corner, Wes does a decent header back across the box and nobody is there. Now, somebody should have been there but whilst Wes was throwing a paddy about it United counter-attacked and were in our penalty area before he started jogging back. This wouldn't be good enough for a rookie centre forward, let alone the centre back and captain of a struggling team. I'd be putting Amartey in for him as soon as possible and giving Schmeichel the captaincy.

 

2) The mindset is way too negative. This isn't exactly an original point but yesterday had numerous examples of how much we've changed in the last year or so. Last season (especially before Christmas) the default reaction was to look forward. This season, everything involves going backwards. In the first half yesterday twice Simpson received the ball in space with time to look up and pick a pass but before even looking up he turned around to look for a pass backwards. I'd be disappointed to see a Sunday morning player doing that let alone the right back for the Premier League champions. One of those occasions very nearly led to him being robbed by Rashford because of his dawdling. Of course he's not alone - at one point (again at 0-0) Morgan received the ball with 15 metres of space to run into after an attack had been half cleared. Under no pressure he turned around and passed it back to Huth. I get that confidence is low but it's going to stay low with decision making like that.

 

3) The young players are putting their older colleagues to shame. It is absolutely unacceptable that Ndidi and Gray are the only players prepared to look forwards or to make themselves available for a pass. I've already highlighted the Ndidi incident yesterday where he spent a couple of seconds looking for a forward pass, got frustrated and surged forward because the lazy ****ers in front of him were all offside or in crap positions but it was the same for Gray. At one stage late in the second half he went down the left wing, beat his man and all he had to aim at was Vardy who had made absolutely no movement whatsoever - not to the near post, not to the far post, not taking a step back - not anything. Just a slow walk forward which meant that not only was he easy to mark and had no momentum but he failed to create any space for anybody who might have been arriving late.

[TheMightySystem]

16 minutes ago, ttfn said:

Three specific observations from yesterday:

 

1) Wes Morgan is not showing leadership qualities. Not only his is own performance level routinely extremely poor, his body language and attitude on the pitch isn't that of a senior pro let alone a leader. Case in point - second half we get a corner, Wes does a decent header back across the box and nobody is there. Now, somebody should have been there but whilst Wes was throwing a paddy about it United counter-attacked and were in our penalty area before he started jogging back. This wouldn't be good enough for a rookie centre forward, let alone the centre back and captain of a struggling team. I'd be putting Amartey in for him as soon as possible and giving Schmeichel the captaincy.

 

2) The mindset is way too negative. This isn't exactly an original point but yesterday had numerous examples of how much we've changed in the last year or so. Last season (especially before Christmas) the default reaction was to look forward. This season, everything involves going backwards. In the first half yesterday twice Simpson received the ball in space with time to look up and pick a pass but before even looking up he turned around to look for a pass backwards. I'd be disappointed to see a Sunday morning player doing that let alone the right back for the Premier League champions. One of those occasions very nearly led to him being robbed by Rashford because of his dawdling. Of course he's not alone - at one point (again at 0-0) Morgan received the ball with 15 metres of space to run into after an attack had been half cleared. Under no pressure he turned around and passed it back to Huth. I get that confidence is low but it's going to stay low with decision making like that.

 

3) The young players are putting their older colleagues to shame. It is absolutely unacceptable that Ndidi and Gray are the only players prepared to look forwards or to make themselves available for a pass. I've already highlighted the Ndidi incident yesterday where he spent a couple of seconds looking for a forward pass, got frustrated and surged forward because the lazy ****ers in front of him were all offside or in crap positions but it was the same for Gray. At one stage late in the second half he went down the left wing, beat his man and all he had to aim at was Vardy who had made absolutely no movement whatsoever - not to the near post, not to the far post, not taking a step back - not anything. Just a slow walk forward which meant that not only was he easy to mark and had no momentum but he failed to create any space for anybody who might have been arriving late.

Your 2nd point is crucial to our collapse in my opinion. I was worried at the start of the season that we were focusing too much on defense and not enough on attack, great when you can nick one nil wins but it is impossible to do that forever and when the moral starts to drop as it has then it starts a never ending cycle of focusing more on the defense. The wings are where everything is going wrong at the moment, we have 2 fullbacks who are expected to just defend, yet these defensive fullbacks need help doing there job yet wont help the wingers in attack? Why not leave the wingers up top when deffending so when the inevitable hoof ball comes up there is more chance of winning it and being able to lay it off and attack on the counter. Playing defensive isn't stopping us from conceding so why don't we try and attack if we are going to concede goals. Ranieri had no problem changing tactic when he realised all out attack wouldn't be sustainable, why can't he change tactic when all out defense isn't sustainable, as it hasn't been for the last 6 months.

Also youth players I will again bring up. Why has Chilwell been dropped for a terribly out of form Fuchs when Chilwell was arguably our best player when he came into the side. Why is it that at 3-0 down we can't give Kapustka some game time and would rather not even use the third sub. I know people will say he has to work had in training, so why is Mahrez playing who turns up late for training and has been below form this season? Why does Musa get shafted out wide and play reasonably ok (In comparison to the rest) yet gets taken off for Gray, right move but should have been Gray on for Vardy and move Musa up top.

Why is it that the same players who let Ranieri down game after game keep getting picked? There comes a time where it moves on from  the players letting him down and it becomes he is letting himself down by not changing things. If we have a whole second 11 who can't play in the premier league then we deserve to go down.

This is what I think would be better

                    Schmeichel

Simpson   Morgan     Amartey   Chilwell

Gray    Mendy     Ndidi      Musa

                     Kapustka

                     Ulloa/Slimani

[Crinklyfox]

Confidence is a wonderful thing in any sport.  When filled with confidence a player naturally plays without fear and can give of their best.  Without confidence a player is diminished, is slow in decision-making (and often makes the wrong decision) and retreats to their comfort zone.  The buck is passed (to other players) whenever there is an opportunity.

 

The team appear bereft of confidence at present.  What little confidence they start with goes with the first bit of negativity.  They turn off, literally they don't want to be there.

 

Until we went behind against Man Utd there were some hopeful signs, there was more effort than there had been previously and most players looked willing to compete.  Once we conceded some of them stopped playing.

 

We have a team that in my opinion is capable of performing at a much higher level than they are doing at present.  They are not demonstrating the qualities needed to win matches at present but that doesn't mean that the potential isn't there.

 

Most of our relegation rivals are now performing better than earlier in the season when they looked nailed on for relegation.  I look at those teams and don't believe they have more talent in their squads than we do.  So if they can turn it around, so can we.  Right now it's the hardest thing to win a couple of matches to get that confidence back but that's what we need to do.  I';d take out the players from the side whose confidence appears gone and replace them from the current bench or even the wider squad, at least we'd get positive intent for the whole match.

[The Doctor]

9 hours ago, jammie82uk said:

After watching the highlights to try get a better all round perspective from watching it at the king power earlier 

 

noticed that they didn't include the Bailly kickout and stamp on Vardy, Mata should have seen Red 

 

awful defending from Huth no idea what he was doing for the first 

 

Fuchs slow to engage waiting for the winger to come to him and then still failed to get anywhere near to stopping the cross 

then it's ridiculous how ibrahimovic manages to have a free shot despite having 3 players around him 

 

I also thought Fuchs was to solely to blame for the third until watching the replay and seeing Morgan 5 yards behind everyone else playing everyone onside because he followed the striker

 

What was telling as well was after the first went in Morgan with is head down sunken shoulders seemingly with no positively 

 

lets just hope this new defender turns out to be semi decent and can get a game although I don't see him ousting Morgan or Huth anytime soon 

 

 

He should have, expecting the ball to be crossed in. Fuchs has to track his runner. 

[lgfualol]

46 minutes ago, ttfn said:

Three specific observations from yesterday:

 

1) Wes Morgan is not showing leadership qualities. Not only his is own performance level routinely extremely poor, his body language and attitude on the pitch isn't that of a senior pro let alone a leader. Case in point - second half we get a corner, Wes does a decent header back across the box and nobody is there. Now, somebody should have been there but whilst Wes was throwing a paddy about it United counter-attacked and were in our penalty area before he started jogging back. This wouldn't be good enough for a rookie centre forward, let alone the centre back and captain of a struggling team. I'd be putting Amartey in for him as soon as possible and giving Schmeichel the captaincy.

 

3) The young players are putting their older colleagues to shame. It is absolutely unacceptable that Ndidi and Gray are the only players prepared to look forwards or to make themselves available for a pass. I've already highlighted the Ndidi incident yesterday where he spent a couple of seconds looking for a forward pass, got frustrated and surged forward because the lazy ****ers in front of him were all offside or in crap positions but it was the same for Gray. At one stage late in the second half he went down the left wing, beat his man and all he had to aim at was Vardy who had made absolutely no movement whatsoever - not to the near post, not to the far post, not taking a step back - not anything. Just a slow walk forward which meant that not only was he easy to mark and had no momentum but he failed to create any space for anybody who might have been arriving late.

Agree with those two. 

 

1. Morgan looks the worst out of the lot for his head going down as soon as we concede. Lord knows how he is still captain. I bet his team-mates can barely keep a straight face when Wes talks to them about improving, etc (if he ever does?).

 

3. I think it's because our younger players have a future and points to prove. Apart from Schmeichel, all I can see is disappointment and dropping down the leagues for the rest of the other players. I feel sorry for our new signings as well, they look awful because their champion team-mates have shit the bed. 

[roblcfc84]

The scary thing is I'm not entirely sure Utd got out of second gear. Zlatan was just taking the pee last 5 minutes in the corner. 

[roblcfc84]

4 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

Agree with those two. 

 

1. Morgan looks the worst out of the lot for his head going down as soon as we concede. Lord knows how he is still captain. I bet his team-mates can barely keep a straight face when Wes talks to them about improving, etc (if he ever does?).

 

3. I think it's because our younger players have a future and points to prove. Apart from Schmeichel, all I can see is disappointment and dropping down the leagues for the rest of the other players. I feel sorry for our new signings as well, they look awful because their champion team-mates have shit the bed. 

Point on Morgan, I think it was disappointment. For me though he's been the best of the 4 so not sure why he gets so much grief. Fuchs looks a shadow of the player last year. Huth is poor unless it's in the air - and really poor on the ball. 

[M0901]

It shows a lot when the best moment of the match was Ndidi's burst forward before being fouled by Pogba

 

 

This kid is going places, it's nice to see one of our centre midfielders have a go. He looks comfortable with the ball and put some good challenges in. Also, when he had possession, most of the time he had nothing on, you could tell he was frustrated.

 

Second string against Derby, all guns blazing against Swansea. We lose that, I'm not sure how Claudio can keep his job. You could hear it in Kasper's tone of voice after his interview yesterday, genuinely no confidence whatsoever

[WigstonWanderer]

I felt quite embarrassed for the rest of the team when Ndidi managed to break forward and was looking to make an attacking pass to his right. He seemed to look up but there was no one there. He appeared to be visibly irritated. Must be wondering what sort of shitehouse he's signed up to.

 

Interestingly the match at Old Trafford went pretty much the same way. Started off ok, then suddenly collapsed, with MU taking their foot off the gas when well in the lead.

 

Mourinho seems to have mellowed somewhat and almost has a soft spot for Claudio. Read some interview where he said Claudio deserves respect for his achievements last season. Perhaps he feels guilty for some of his comments in his younger days.

[foxy boxing]

We are just defensively this season so s****. we are just so poor and Huth and Morgan are clearly on there way out. as much as I love them and what they have done and achieved for the club they cannot sustain a high level of performance for any period of time. they are lacking awareness and are in need of some rest and cannot be expected to play every game this season. we also offer very little if any attacking threat whatsoever with Vardy just a one season wonder and Okazaki just as much as I love him and the work he puts in offers  no threat at all. we are becoming a laughing stock with our defence of the title this season

[les-tah]

42 minutes ago, foxy boxing said:

We are just defensively this season so s****. we are just so poor and Huth and Morgan are clearly on there way out. as much as I love them and what they have done and achieved for the club they cannot sustain a high level of performance for any period of time. they are lacking awareness and are in need of some rest and cannot be expected to play every game this season. we also offer very little if any attacking threat whatsoever with Vardy just a one season wonder and Okazaki just as much as I love him and the work he puts in offers  no threat at all. we are becoming a laughing stock with our defence of the title this season

Every single IDIOT on this forum including myself could see the defense is terrible from the start this season. Why did we not change anything? Why did we not buy anyone?Really is a joke that the club failed to resolve this. We deserve to be relegated. Pray it doesn't happen but struggling to see any positives.

[Bobby Hundreds]

I wonder who will score our first league goal of 2017?

[Footballwipe]

17 minutes ago, les-tah said:

Every single IDIOT on this forum including myself could see the defense is terrible from the start this season. Why did we not change anything? Why did we not buy anyone?Really is a joke that the club failed to resolve this. We deserve to be relegated. Pray it doesn't happen but struggling to see any positives.

I'm not a thread starter, but I'd love a "Hindsight" thread where we could discuss what we would have done to the team. Mine would be binning off Huth and Morgan (or relegating them to the bench) for two top-mark and top-quality centre backs as we exploited the amazing position we found ourselves in. Instead we got all misty eyed and started chucking contracts around the place.

[walkerleeds]

8 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

I wonder who will score our first league goal of 2017?

 

Will we score a league goal in 2017 is my question..

[Dan]

2 hours ago, TheMightySystem said:

Your 2nd point is crucial to our collapse in my opinion. I was worried at the start of the season that we were focusing too much on defense and not enough on attack, great when you can nick one nil wins but it is impossible to do that forever and when the moral starts to drop as it has then it starts a never ending cycle of focusing more on the defense. The wings are where everything is going wrong at the moment, we have 2 fullbacks who are expected to just defend, yet these defensive fullbacks need help doing there job yet wont help the wingers in attack? Why not leave the wingers up top when deffending so when the inevitable hoof ball comes up there is more chance of winning it and being able to lay it off and attack on the counter. Playing defensive isn't stopping us from conceding so why don't we try and attack if we are going to concede goals. Ranieri had no problem changing tactic when he realised all out attack wouldn't be sustainable, why can't he change tactic when all out defense isn't sustainable, as it hasn't been for the last 6 months.

Also youth players I will again bring up. Why has Chilwell been dropped for a terribly out of form Fuchs when Chilwell was arguably our best player when he came into the side. Why is it that at 3-0 down we can't give Kapustka some game time and would rather not even use the third sub. I know people will say he has to work had in training, so why is Mahrez playing who turns up late for training and has been below form this season? Why does Musa get shafted out wide and play reasonably ok (In comparison to the rest) yet gets taken off for Gray, right move but should have been Gray on for Vardy and move Musa up top.

Why is it that the same players who let Ranieri down game after game keep getting picked? There comes a time where it moves on from  the players letting him down and it becomes he is letting himself down by not changing things. If we have a whole second 11 who can't play in the premier league then we deserve to go down.

This is what I think would be better

                    Schmeichel

Simpson   Morgan     Amartey   Chilwell

Gray    Mendy     Ndidi      Musa

                     Kapustka

                     Ulloa/Slimani

Agree with this. I'd take a 6-0 loss if it meant turning one of these 3-0 losses into a point or more.

[lgfualol]

 

Ranieri trying to keep a grip on the egos in the team

[waylander]

Watched the game again with the family . We all think it was better than burnley or Southampton . So there could be light at the end of the tunnel. Oops it's a train ?

[The Guvnor]

Mata should have been given a red card if that had have been Vardy he would have walked. So it was the ref's fault we lost thank you Anthony Taylor thank you.