Stoke (H) Pre Match Thread

[Foxxed]

Lord above. Eighteen days, six matches, two against Athletico, including flying over to Spain after Everton. At Stoke, the normal line up seems likely, with Slim for jet lagged Shinji I'd guess. Sunderland and Everton are tricky: even if the same starting 11 power through to reach Athletico with enough energy, a week later, with Palace in the middle, we're playing Athletico again. I reckon we'll see the whole bench and perhaps even Musa and Mendy sharing the work a little more: keeping our energy up for our two European matches seems paramount.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

15 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

 

I never said he was thick, there's a difference between mental acumen and football intelligence tho, we were talking about partnerships, Vardy and Slim are both number 9s really, different styles but out and out strikers all the same.

 

Can you see Vardy really ever being able to adapt his game to play any other way? unless once his legs go, he manages to become a lineker style goal hanger and poacher and at times his finishing isn't at that level. I can't see him becoming a teddy sheringham type, and he isn't going to go play in midfield and starting picking wonder passes, that's all i meant from the intelligence point of view, he his very good at what he does, playing on the last man, closing down, working hard, and running away from players and he at least stays onside more than dj or beckford, but i just wouldn't have him up there in terms of someone like a bruno berner, gary mac, neil lennon etc, players that can read the game. So he is limited in terms of what he can offer, hence the partnership thing, he has to be the 9 and therefore doesn't offer a lot past that, he needs to be the main man.

Fair enough!

[STUHILL]

10 minutes ago, Detroit Blues said:

Vardy played pretty well next to Ulloa two years ago during the great escape, so it's not like Vardy needs a true #10. It might take some time for Vardy and Slimani to build a partnership, but right now is the right time to give it a try. Shinji is going to be fatigued and jet lagged, and we got a ton of fixtures coming up. Slimani has been rested, and is probably itching to get out there. We're far enough outside the relegation zone to have some breathing room, so it's not like this game is a must win. 

I do think we are overhyping this No.10 role that we HAVE to have to be successful. Many teams play with two out and out strikers and don't have a number 10 type player. As you said, Vardy and Ulloa played well together on many occassions and I still think it is too early to write off a Slim/Vardy partnership.

 

We just need to find a way for them to play together, and for me, Vardy is best on the shoulder of a defender and should always be there for the quick through or over the top ball. Slimani should therefore drop a little deeper and be there to hold the ball up when needed but also bust a gut to get into the box for crosses etc. All this talk of Slimani being lazy?! I must have been watching different matches. He isn't as quick as Okazaki but he seems to run around like a mad man just the same and having Vardy for the quick, direct counter attacks and Slimani in the box for Albrighton/Mahrez crosses and corners etc, would give us a much better chance of scoring from different situations. 

[Wymsey]

With them being a more physical team, therefore I think pace should be the emphasis of this game.

Vardy, Gray and Mahrez to start.

But also Slimani should start, with his aerial ability, but the wingers need to put crosses in that aren't too high - which has sometimes been the case.

[brucey]

I liked Slimani against Sevilla for his one touch link up play and his defensive header from a Sevilla cross in our box right at the end. His anticipation, movement and jumping when headering crosses is top notch, but he can't seem to judge the flight of long balls anywhere near as well, and can't seem to stay onside.

[Bayfox]

3 hours ago, STUHILL said:

I do think we are overhyping this No.10 role that we HAVE to have to be successful. Many teams play with two out and out strikers and don't have a number 10 type player. As you said, Vardy and Ulloa played well together on many occassions and I still think it is too early to write off a Slim/Vardy partnership.

 

We just need to find a way for them to play together, and for me, Vardy is best on the shoulder of a defender and should always be there for the quick through or over the top ball. Slimani should therefore drop a little deeper and be there to hold the ball up when needed but also bust a gut to get into the box for crosses etc. All this talk of Slimani being lazy?! I must have been watching different matches. He isn't as quick as Okazaki but he seems to run around like a mad man just the same and having Vardy for the quick, direct counter attacks and Slimani in the box for Albrighton/Mahrez crosses and corners etc, would give us a much better chance of scoring from different situations. 

Really not trying to be a ****. But please list me the number of clubs that play with 2 out and out strikers anymore.

 

The fact we even play anything close to 442 is a anomaly. Most teams play 433 4231 etc. Apparently 442 died years ago.

 

 

[STUHILL]

2 hours ago, Bayfox said:

Really not trying to be a ****. But please list me the number of clubs that play with 2 out and out strikers anymore.

 

The fact we even play anything close to 442 is a anomaly. Most teams play 433 4231 etc. Apparently 442 died years ago.

 

 

You ****!! 

 

Burnley have used it pretty succesfully this season and Watford obviously used it all of last season with Deeney and Ighalo. I know Bournemouth used in their last win against Swansea and I'm sure teams like West Brom etc and have all used it on and off this season. I'm not advocating for the 4-4-2 though, as I would eventually like us to switch to a system similar to ones used by other teams, as I think 4-4-2 can often mean the midfield becomes overun and it takes a tremendous amount of work from our players to make it successful. 

 

My argument was more based on the fact that if we are to stick with a 4-4-2 this weekend, then I can't see why It wouldn't be successful with 2 out and out strikers, if one can drop a little deeper, in this case Slimani. Lets not overhype what Okazaki does, he is no normal no.10 in the Sigurdsson mould, who makes runs and create things etc. Okazaki closes down and harrasses for 60 minutes. Not many are better than him at that, but I can't see why Slimani can't offer a little of that, but a lot more in attack. 

 

As another posted mentioned, Ulloa and Vardy did pretty well in a 4-4-2 of last season, and Ulloa is even less mobile than Slimani, so it has potential to work. I'd say from what I've seen so far, it would still be difficult, but these are two top players and if Shakey can get them to build a decent understanding, then we could have a pretty lethal partnership, with Vardy's pace and directness and Slimani's aerial threat with excellent crossers of the ball in Mahrez, Albrighton and Fuchs. I'm excited to see it tried again, especially in a team full of confidence and performing much better. 

 

 

 

[Eagle10]

6 hours ago, STUHILL said:

I do think we are overhyping this No.10 role that we HAVE to have to be successful. Many teams play with two out and out strikers and don't have a number 10 type player. As you said, Vardy and Ulloa played well together on many occassions and I still think it is too early to write off a Slim/Vardy partnership.

 

We just need to find a way for them to play together, and for me, Vardy is best on the shoulder of a defender and should always be there for the quick through or over the top ball. Slimani should therefore drop a little deeper and be there to hold the ball up when needed but also bust a gut to get into the box for crosses etc. All this talk of Slimani being lazy?! I must have been watching different matches. He isn't as quick as Okazaki but he seems to run around like a mad man just the same and having Vardy for the quick, direct counter attacks and Slimani in the box for Albrighton/Mahrez crosses and corners etc, would give us a much better chance of scoring from different situations. 

This is wrong. He runs strangely, but he is fairly quick for his size, and he is quicker than Okazaki by far.

[STUHILL]

1 minute ago, Eagle10 said:

This is wrong. He runs strangely, but he is fairly quick for his size, and he is quicker than Okazaki by far.

That's a race I would like to see. Not sure Slimani would beat him by far, if at all, but neither are quick I suppose and I was more referring to how quick Okazaki closes people down and harrasses them.

[sly1]

Can see this being a dull game 

[FoxinNotts]

I think Okazaki might be benched. I don't think he'll have the energy to do his usual 66min stint. 

 

Also, as others have said, we have a heavy schedule ahead, so I think he may continue to rest Morgan and use Benny.

 

I'd go for:

 

Schmeichel(c)

Simpson

Benalouane

Huth

Fuchs

Mahrez

Drinkwater

Ndidi

Albrighton

Slimani

Vardy

 

Okazaki

Gray

Amartey

 

to come on.

[weller54]

26 minutes ago, sly1 said:

Can see this being a dull game 

They've got West Ham at home... 

[CosbehFox]

It depends what Stoke City turn up in an attacking sense but their back four is forever scared of being attacked. 

 

1-0, Leo with his traditional goal against Stoke 

[oxtonfox]

On 3/27/2017 at 15:59, Foxxed said:

Lord above. Eighteen days, six matches, two against Athletico, including flying over to Spain after Everton. At Stoke, the normal line up seems likely, with Slim for jet lagged Shinji I'd guess. Sunderland and Everton are tricky: even if the same starting 11 power through to reach Athletico with enough energy, a week later, with Palace in the middle, we're playing Athletico again. I reckon we'll see the whole bench and perhaps even Musa and Mendy sharing the work a little more: keeping our energy up for our two European matches seems paramount.

Must bag six points against Stoke and Sunderland as it will be all systems go Atletico afterwards. A crazy schedule to be honest be we need the points in the bag first to get the focus and our form / line-up ready for the Champions League.   

[oxtonfox]

23 hours ago, STUHILL said:

You ****!! 

 

Burnley have used it pretty succesfully this season and Watford obviously used it all of last season with Deeney and Ighalo. I know Bournemouth used in their last win against Swansea and I'm sure teams like West Brom etc and have all used it on and off this season. I'm not advocating for the 4-4-2 though, as I would eventually like us to switch to a system similar to ones used by other teams, as I think 4-4-2 can often mean the midfield becomes overun and it takes a tremendous amount of work from our players to make it successful. 

 

My argument was more based on the fact that if we are to stick with a 4-4-2 this weekend, then I can't see why It wouldn't be successful with 2 out and out strikers, if one can drop a little deeper, in this case Slimani. Lets not overhype what Okazaki does, he is no normal no.10 in the Sigurdsson mould, who makes runs and create things etc. Okazaki closes down and harrasses for 60 minutes. Not many are better than him at that, but I can't see why Slimani can't offer a little of that, but a lot more in attack. 

 

As another posted mentioned, Ulloa and Vardy did pretty well in a 4-4-2 of last season, and Ulloa is even less mobile than Slimani, so it has potential to work. I'd say from what I've seen so far, it would still be difficult, but these are two top players and if Shakey can get them to build a decent understanding, then we could have a pretty lethal partnership, with Vardy's pace and directness and Slimani's aerial threat with excellent crossers of the ball in Mahrez, Albrighton and Fuchs. I'm excited to see it tried again, especially in a team full of confidence and performing much better. 

 

 

 

Graham Taylor once said that formations don't win football matches but players do. I couldn't give a monkeys to be honest, it's more the quality of your play, the use of the ball (not the % of possession!) and effectiveness in key areas that counts. We won the league playing 4-4-2 most of the time; I think Atletico themselves have used it effectively e.g. using Griezman and Torres.

Stoke will be tricky but I think we have the Indian sign over them at the moment.  

[MC Prussian]

9 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

It depends what Stoke City turn up in an attacking sense but their back four is forever scared of being attacked. 

 

1-0, Leo with his traditional goal against Stoke 

Don't think we'll see a lot of Ulloa until the end of the season - at least for the next few weeks or so. Despite the managerial change, I think he'll leave the club this summer, with Shakespeare more likely to give Leo more minutes as we're approaching late April/early May (depending on previous results and our position in the table).

 

Slimani will remain the preferred choice as backup striker for now.

[AmarteyAndChill]

9 hours ago, oxtonfox said:

Graham Taylor once said that formations don't win football matches but players do. I couldn't give a monkeys to be honest, it's more the quality of your play, the use of the ball (not the % of possession!) and effectiveness in key areas that counts. We won the league playing 4-4-2 most of the time; I think Atletico themselves have used it effectively e.g. using Griezman and Torres.

Stoke will be tricky but I think we have the Indian sign over them at the moment.  

Griezmann drops deep like Okazaki and playes like a attacking midfielder while Torres or Gameiro play up top.

[Ric Flair]

On ‎26‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 23:02, brucey said:

Simpson must really really love Dubai, just finished having a holiday there, came back played 2 games, and went back there for another holiday 

His ex-missus claimed he's out there a few times a month when they had a public spat on twitter a few months back. He seems to go for a day or two most times he's got a day off training. Outrageous.

[goose2010]

All the players that werent on International Duty were invited out to the Dubai World Cup (Horse Racing) by the owners. Liam Moore and Shulpp were with Simpson and Huth to. Mate of mine was on the flight over with them and their partners. Lets just say Huth had maybe one or two beers too many on the plane! The Picture of him attempted to Waltz done first class with my mate is a classic

[Wolfox]

I'm not sure why we spending time debating this?  The team, will be the team

 

Shinji has time to recover and will start Saturday 

 

its quite nice to have that same lack of anticipation back @ 2pm when I'm frantically refreshing my BBC sport screen waiting for the lineups to appear! "Oh, it's the same as last week"

 

It'll be more intriguing to see who's on the bench - Musa to remain on there???

[Bayfox]

On 27/03/2017 at 22:32, STUHILL said:

You ****!! 

 

Burnley have used it pretty succesfully this season and Watford obviously used it all of last season with Deeney and Ighalo. I know Bournemouth used in their last win against Swansea and I'm sure teams like West Brom etc and have all used it on and off this season. I'm not advocating for the 4-4-2 though, as I would eventually like us to switch to a system similar to ones used by other teams, as I think 4-4-2 can often mean the midfield becomes overun and it takes a tremendous amount of work from our players to make it successful. 

 

My argument was more based on the fact that if we are to stick with a 4-4-2 this weekend, then I can't see why It wouldn't be successful with 2 out and out strikers, if one can drop a little deeper, in this case Slimani. Lets not overhype what Okazaki does, he is no normal no.10 in the Sigurdsson mould, who makes runs and create things etc. Okazaki closes down and harrasses for 60 minutes. Not many are better than him at that, but I can't see why Slimani can't offer a little of that, but a lot more in attack. 

 

As another posted mentioned, Ulloa and Vardy did pretty well in a 4-4-2 of last season, and Ulloa is even less mobile than Slimani, so it has potential to work. I'd say from what I've seen so far, it would still be difficult, but these are two top players and if Shakey can get them to build a decent understanding, then we could have a pretty lethal partnership, with Vardy's pace and directness and Slimani's aerial threat with excellent crossers of the ball in Mahrez, Albrighton and Fuchs. I'm excited to see it tried again, especially in a team full of confidence and performing much better. 

 

 

 

I'm not sure Slimani can drop that bit deeper, tho, his touch isn't that great, he doesn't work hard enough, he'd have to stop waving his arms about and complaining like he did at west ham when he came on for a start, I accept okazaki is not a traditional number 10, but his work rate is key to how we play, a bit like kante last season and even albrighton, limited player, but covers so much ground, work rate is key to how we play, I don't see Slim offering that side of things, especially in that role. We are more than the sum of our parts at times, for a reason, it just works, trying to change it and get players into the side when they don't offer what we need, makes us worse.

 

Also without going back over every team sheet, how many times did Vardy and Leo actually play together, 1st season back up, vardy got injured and we still had nuge and last season, shinji was starting most weeks with vardy, leo was a bit part player, that tended to step in late on in games, or when vardy was out.

 

personal opinion but I actually see leo and vardy as a better partnership than vardy and slim, certainly wouldn't be adverse to leo playing, slim was terrible when he came on at west ham and I think that's when i ran out of patience with him, I also worry he isn't the best in the dressing room and around the club, maybe he's a winner and used to winning in portugal, but he seems to frustrate some of the current squad with his attitude.

 

I accept your last point, if we altered our approach slightly and with the crossers you mention we should be able to supply him with plenty of chances but we don't, play that way, by that i mean, if we play on the counter, i'm not sure he is quick enough to break with us and get in the box and as i mentioned earlier, with albrighton on one side having to cut back on his right foot and mahrez on the other, mahrez has that habit eden hazard seemed to have a few years back of actually trying to slow the play down and beat a player with skill, instead of trying to run away from them at times.

 

I just feel we may have to bite the bullet with Slim and Musa, it's gone now but we may have been better persisting in trying to get deeney. someone who knew the league and does seem to have a decent touch.

 

Would love to see us go in for sigurdsson tho, that's a number 10, works hard, stays on his feet  scores, creates, and who knows may actually help us take the odd decent free kick.

[dynamark]

If we can get 4 or 6 points out of the two home games with the first choice then I wouldn't blame the club for going all out second team v everton away.

Keep Kasper in goal and maybe vardy mahrez drinky as subs but just give the back up guys a chance to show what they can do and surprise us all.

Got to be done IMO

[ousefox]

Whenever we have played a simple 442, we have been pretty poor this season (Musa and Vardy vs Hull being the biggest joke). We have to have a player like Shinji dropping back into midfield to compete with the best clubs in the league. Pointing to the 'success' of Watford and Burnley playing 442 doesn't do much for me. They know they are limited teams who will never fight for top 8 with that system. 

 

Even last season we didn't pay 442 when Ulloa came on. He always played very deep unless we were chasing the game. The season before we had Nugent playing the position Shinji has done so well in, and even when we did play 2 upfront in the 352 system, Mahrez was in that whole. 

 

4411 has arguably been the most effective system we have had in our history. CS showed how little he trusted Slimani in that position vs Sevilla when he decided to put Vardy there instead, which to me, suggests that it's unlikely they'll ever create the perfect relationship together as we need Vardy running off the last man.

 

Having said all that, I'd probably play Slimani and Vardy together against a very average Stoke team  Shinji is going to be shattered as we should still have enough 

[dynamark]

Shinz is probably sat in first class right now with a stewardess feeding him salmon and champers .Maybe a little sleep later and a movie.Then driven back up to Leicester.

Massage at the training ground in the morning and a little light training just to ease back into it .Dinner and an early night to ease the jet lag.Not all bad.

[ARM1968]

2-0 it is written