Safe standing - time to act

[David Hankey]

54 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

Why do you think they were introduced? And what is your view on those reasons? Genuine questions here.

 

Personally, those laws/reasons is far outdated. In those times standing was not safe, there was overcrowding, police/stewards who were clueless, drunken people (and not just a minority). It was a different time.

 

Safe standing is like a seat but with minimal chance of falling over or crushing anyone. It allows those few thousand supporters who already stand (or who may wish to stand) that ability. I cannot see how anyone would stand (no pun intended) against that. I am pretty confident the 5K figure quoted/estimated above is not far off the demand for it. We have nearly 3K stand at every away game.

As a result of the disaster at Hillsborough and the subsequent Taylor Report which made recommendations to "improve stadium safety". 

 

My guess is there are many today who either weren't born back in 1989 or were too young to witness the carnage that took place.

 

I agree it was a different time but look at today's stewards and their inability to stop/prevent misdemeanors. Prevention is better than cure.

[GlennyFox55]

10 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

As a result of the disaster at Hillsborough and the subsequent Taylor Report which made recommendations to "improve stadium safety". 

 

My guess is there are many today who either weren't born back in 1989 or were too young to witness the carnage that took place.

 

I agree it was a different time but look at today's stewards and their inability to stop/prevent misdemeanors. Prevention is better than cure.

Safe Standing and terraces are completely different things, safe standing is actually safer than the current seated format as people who have sat down for the game can still fall into those infront when celebrating etc.

 

[KrefelderFox666]

11 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

As a result of the disaster at Hillsborough and the subsequent Taylor Report which made recommendations to "improve stadium safety". 

 

My guess is there are many today who either weren't born back in 1989 or were too young to witness the carnage that took place.

 

I agree it was a different time but look at today's stewards and their inability to stop/prevent misdemeanors. Prevention is better than cure.

I think there has been lots of subsequent findings and reports into said incident. So that doesn't really stick.

 

Safe standing is very much a prevention. Thousands of people stand in every ground but the facilities are not there to allow them to do this safely. So the status quo is an issue. I am baffled by how many people are unable to see this.

 

Why is it OK for people to stand at rugby, at concerts (festivals being extremely dangerous) and all these other sports/events? None of those are safe standing, they are classic crowd breakers. I have been to many concerts and there have been times when I was unable to move and was at the mercy of the crowd movement as a whole (it's pretty scary).

 

A matchday experience should be inclusive for all people and right now, it isn't.

[David Hankey]

3 minutes ago, GlennyFox55 said:

Safe Standing and terraces are completely different things, safe standing is actually safer than the current seated format as people who have sat down for the game can still fall into those infront when celebrating etc.

 

That may be the case but I was asked as to why all seater stadium was introduced. Incidentally, in all the games I have attended I have no witnessed anyone falling forward when standing up to celebrate.

[David Hankey]

The fact of the matter is this issue will not go away until the minority prevail just as they do in many walks of life.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Oh the classic "I'm older than you so I know better". 

 

Blaming standing for Hillsborough is so 2007, read some articles and educate yourself.

[Voll Blau]

36 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

The fact of the matter is this issue will not go away until the minority prevail just as they do in many walks of life.

Not quite sure what you mean by that, but if those who want safe standing do "prevail" it won't affect anyone else other than they themselves. They're not campaigning to take away anybody else's right to sit on a plastic seat if they want.

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, David Hankey said:

As a result of the disaster at Hillsborough and the subsequent Taylor Report which made recommendations to "improve stadium safety". 

 

My guess is there are many today who either weren't born back in 1989 or were too young to witness the carnage that took place.

 

I agree it was a different time but look at today's stewards and their inability to stop/prevent misdemeanors. Prevention is better than cure.

A true observation and of course some clubs might be stalling because they want to see how it pans out at other clubs first.

 

I would suggest that what happens at clubs like Celtic doesn't help the cause. The type of or behaviour of some of their fans is not what current owners now want at their clubs perhaps. Some supporters are living in a bygone era and sometimes just don't help their own cause. If, having created a 'singing area' as a precursor to see how things go, our owners then see or hear of individuals migrating places, standing up in seated areas, ignoring stewards etc, they're perhaps not going to readily embrace the idea of what some supporters want in full.

 

 

[SemperEadem]

8 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

A true observation and of course some clubs might be stalling because they want to see how it pans out at other clubs first.

 

I would suggest that what happens at clubs like Celtic doesn't help the cause. The type of or behaviour of some of their fans is not what current owners now want at their clubs perhaps. Some supporters are living in a bygone era and sometimes just don't help their own cause. If, having created a 'singing area' as a precursor to see how things go, our owners then see or hear of individuals migrating places, standing up in seated areas, ignoring stewards etc, they're perhaps not going to readily embrace the idea of what some supporters want in full.

 

 

No chance Top knows about the goings on with the active fan scene at Celtic. Those below him may do but even then thats giving them possibly too much credit.

[coolhandfox]

Safe standing is safer than standing in a seated area.

 

The is no argument against it on safety grounds, it is not a plan to return to the open terracing like the 70s and 80s.

 

The issue at Hillsborough was more than just fans standing up. 

 

[Voll Blau]

2 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

A true observation and of course some clubs might be stalling because they want to see how it pans out at other clubs first.

 

I would suggest that what happens at clubs like Celtic doesn't help the cause. The type of or behaviour of some of their fans is not what current owners now want at their clubs perhaps. Some supporters are living in a bygone era and sometimes just don't help their own cause. If, having created a 'singing area' as a precursor to see how things go, our owners then see or hear of individuals migrating places, standing up in seated areas, ignoring stewards etc, they're perhaps not going to readily embrace the idea of what some supporters want in full.

 

 

All clubs know how standing "pans out" now because, in many cases, thousands do it in seated areas at their games every single week - and if clubs don't realise that then they're being absolutely negligent of what's been going on inside their own stadia for years and years.

 

The installation of a barrier in front of each seat is not going to suddenly turn English fans into Galatasaray at their worst, it just means it'll make the way they prefer to watch the match much safer.

[David Hankey]

1 hour ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Oh the classic "I'm older than you so I know better". 

 

Blaming standing for Hillsborough is so 2007, read some articles and educate yourself.

Stop being a ****. I was asked if I knew why all-seater stadium was introduced and it was a result of the findings of the Taylor Report which was initiated after the disaster at Hillsborough. It could well be if Hillsborough hadn't happened no changes would have been made.

 

I suggest you practice what you preach; and get educated!!

Edited 27 October 2022 by David Hankey

[purpleronnie]

I can't believe we are having this argument in 2022.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

7 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

Stop being a ****. I was asked if I knew why all-seater stadium was introduced and it was a result of the findings of the Taylor Report which was initiated after the disaster at Hillsborough. It could well be if Hillsborough hadn't happened no changes would have been made.

 

I suggest you practice what you preach; and get educated!!

Ok chief. You saying that safe standing is linked to the Taylor report shows how uneducated you are 👍

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Just now, purpleronnie said:

I can't believe we are having this argument in 2022.

Mad isn't it. 

[filbertway]

I can only assume it's WUMs at this point. Surely?

 

[Buzzell]

3 hours ago, Dames said:

Not going to happen. The club have wanted that to fail from the start and as word has it the stewarding in that section has been getting more overzealous lately.

 

I personally think they were hoping it would attract enough trouble naturally from displacing fans and attracting wanna be ultras but that's not worked out so they are now going to be putting the pressure on in other ways. The club has had a set idea of what it wants a match day experience to be for the best part of 15 years now and they won't deviate from that at all. 

But surely the club want a good atmosphere right? The singing section was a step in the right direction and should hopefully introduce more singing areas imo but making them a safe standing area will obviously increase atmosphere. If done right then it can be as safe as houses. No need to over man with stewards, making it look like a load of louts in a collective area when that’s not the case.

[David Hankey]

40 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Ok chief. You saying that safe standing is linked to the Taylor report shows how uneducated you are 👍

I have not said that "safe standing" is linked to the Taylor Report. There is nothing like the ill-educated thinking they're right.

 

All-seater stadium was introduced after the Taylor Report. It's all out there if you'd care to look. See why it was initiated and the recommendations it made. Stop being a twerp.

Edited 27 October 2022 by David Hankey

[Claridge]

Hate safe standing, im too short

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 hour ago, David Hankey said:

I have not said that "safe standing" is linked to the Taylor Report. There is nothing like the ill-educated thinking they're right.

 

All-seater stadium was introduced after the Taylor Report. It's all out there if you'd care to look. See why it was initiated and the recommendations it made. Stop being a twerp.

Taylor report was a sham used to crack down on hooliganism. No one has ever been able to link standing to Hillsborough, it was mass management by the Police, you'd agree on that at least surely? 

 

Anyway, safe standing will be here eventually, but you'll get to keep your seat anyway and then everyone will be happy 👍

[HighPeakFox]

It's a twerp-off...

[Stadt]

If standing was inherently dangerous there’d be thousands of stadium disasters every week.
 

Standing at all seater grounds is the worst of all worlds.

[MattFox]

22 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Taylor report was a sham used to crack down on hooliganism. No one has ever been able to link standing to Hillsborough, it was mass management by the Police, you'd agree on that at least surely? 

 

Anyway, safe standing will be here eventually, but you'll get to keep your seat anyway and then everyone will be happy 👍

Tbf the Taylor Report actually blamed the police as the main cause for Hillsborough , the government just chose to ignore it

 

The all seater stadium thing was just because of the morale panic at the time

[davieG]

The cause of over crowded stands was probably the police, the cause of so many deaths was the fencing designed to keep fans off the pitch. Put there because of previous fan pitch invasions and mass fighting on those pitches.

[David Hankey]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

It's a twerp-off...

Thanks for your invaluable input as per usual.