Our system detected that your browser is blocking advertisements on our site. Please help support FoxesTalk by disabling any kind of ad blocker while browsing this site. Thank you.
Jump to content
bovril

Unpopular Opinions You Hold

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, urban.spaceman said:

Possibly controversial:

 

Liam Neeson doesn’t deserve the backlash he’s getting for admitting he wanted revenge against any black person for the rape of his friend, especially in the context of Northern Ireland during the Troubles. In fact, he should be being commended for being honest about it, and for expressing the disgust and horror of his own actions and prejudices at that particular time...

 

:ph34r:

Actually agree with this.

 

Vengeance is a base part of human instinct. Denying it the ending it wants and then acknowledging it, saying it's often a bad idea and being honest about it as a shortcoming rather than burying it under a layer of nicety is a good thing to do.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Actually agree with this.

 

Vengeance is a base part of human instinct. Denying it the ending it wants and then acknowledging it, saying it's often a bad idea and being honest about it as a shortcoming rather than burying it under a layer of nicety is a good thing to do.

Precisely. He even said it in the context of realising revenge based on identity - as was prevalent during the Troubles - is utterly stupid and he realised this after a week. He changed and no longer holds those views. Surely that’s a good thing, particularly that society itself has changed?

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Possibly controversial:

 

Liam Neeson doesn’t deserve the backlash he’s getting for admitting he wanted revenge against any black person for the rape of his friend, especially in the context of Northern Ireland during the Troubles. In fact, he should be being commended for being honest about it, and for expressing the disgust and horror of his own actions and prejudices at that particular time...

 

:ph34r:

Agree and I'm glad John Barnes has said something to defend him.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Precisely. He even said it in the context of realising revenge based on identity - as was prevalent during the Troubles - is utterly stupid and he realised this after a week. He changed and no longer holds those views. Surely that’s a good thing, particularly that society itself has changed?

 

 

It really is.

 

Change and noting how people have changed - and self-awareness is a key part of that one - shows progress. And we as a species need to progress.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Possibly controversial:

 

Liam Neeson doesn’t deserve the backlash he’s getting for admitting he wanted revenge against any black person for the rape of his friend, especially in the context of Northern Ireland during the Troubles. In fact, he should be being commended for being honest about it, and for expressing the disgust and horror of his own actions and prejudices at that particular time...

 

:ph34r:

 

I agree. He's not describing his long-ago feelings of violent vengefulness and racism with approval. He's describing them with extreme disapproval, but saying that he can understand the instinct for violent revenge, even if he disapproves.

 

The only problem is that there's the racism element mixed in with the instinct for violent revenge. He's essentially making a dual confession / condemnation of his past self: for vengefulness and for racism, which complicates the debate....maybe unavoidably if that's what he felt and he wants to be honest. Violent revenge alone would have led him to seek to kill the particular (black) bloke who raped his friend/relation. Seeking an excuse to kill a random black man who didn't rape her is blatant racism.  

 

That's not a criticism of Neeson for revealing what he felt - and the self-disgust he now feels about it. He's been brave, honest and doesn't deserve the backlash. His revelation should encourage honest self-criticism by others, not self-righteous condemnation.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I agree. He's not describing his long-ago feelings of violent vengefulness and racism with approval. He's describing them with extreme disapproval, but saying that he can understand the instinct for violent revenge, even if he disapproves.

 

The only problem is that there's the racism element mixed in with the instinct for violent revenge. He's essentially making a dual confession / condemnation of his past self: for vengefulness and for racism, which complicates the debate....maybe unavoidably if that's what he felt and he wants to be honest. Violent revenge alone would have led him to seek to kill the particular (black) bloke who raped his friend/relation. Seeking an excuse to kill a random black man who didn't rape her is blatant racism.  

 

That's not a criticism of Neeson for revealing what he felt - and the self-disgust he now feels about it. He's been brave, honest and doesn't deserve the backlash. His revelation should encourage honest self-criticism by others, not self-righteous condemnation.

Unfortunately the former is so much harder than the latter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I agree. He's not describing his long-ago feelings of violent vengefulness and racism with approval. He's describing them with extreme disapproval, but saying that he can understand the instinct for violent revenge, even if he disapproves.

 

The only problem is that there's the racism element mixed in with the instinct for violent revenge. He's essentially making a dual confession / condemnation of his past self: for vengefulness and for racism, which complicates the debate....maybe unavoidably if that's what he felt and he wants to be honest. Violent revenge alone would have led him to seek to kill the particular (black) bloke who raped his friend/relation. Seeking an excuse to kill a random black man who didn't rape her is blatant racism.  

 

That's not a criticism of Neeson for revealing what he felt - and the self-disgust he now feels about it. He's been brave, honest and doesn't deserve the backlash. His revelation should encourage honest self-criticism by others, not self-righteous condemnation.

Spot on. Like I said, the particular context of The Troubles is being totally wilfully ignored. You go to Belfast now and there are still “peace gates” separating The Crumlin Road and Shankhill Road. The hatred between the Catholics/Republicans & Protestants/Unionists ended up in endless violence and a vicious circle of revenge murders with divisions that are still there to this day. That was the point he was getting at - the revulsion of the way he once thought, the lust for revenge against someone of that identity, as a product of that environment, is something that was brave to admit in this climate. 

 

But of course sadly that’s not good enough for some people. It’s not in their interests to see the nuance nor give people any scope to change their views and grow. Which begs the question, who is the real bigot?

Edited by urban.spaceman
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

I’m finding it a bit weird tbh and as for “I’m glad John Barnes has said something to defend him” lol 

Exactly, it's not like he's a 3 year old and he's drawn on his bedroom wall or something.

 

He's a grown man and has gone out with the intention of killing an innocent person based solely on the colour of his skin.

 

If I were to don my tin foil hat i'd suggest that if a black celebrity had said that he had gone out into the streets for a week and a half with the intention of murdering the first white man he bumped into then this story would a massively different slant on it.

Edited by AKCJ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Can't agree with the "praise" (loosly using that word) that Liam Neeson is getting for being honest.

 

He thought this through ...  if there was any chance that he would have received serious grief he'd have kept his mouth shut imo ...   I'd hazard a guess that he thinks, after the dust has settled, his 'honesty' will be praised ...    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Exactly, it's not like he's a 3 year old and he's drawn on his bedroom wall or something.

 

He's a grown man and has gone out with the intention of killing an innocent person based solely on the colour of his skin.

 

If I were to don my tin foil hat i'd suggest that if a black celebrity had said that he had gone out into the streets for a week and a half with the intention of murdering the first white man he bumped into then this story would a massively different slant on it.

Maybe there's a case for questioning the necessity of revealing it at all, but the original point was that the backlash is unwarranted given the context of the interview as a whole.

 

If it was a black man saying this half the media would be praising him for bravely revealing how white patriarchal society had turned him to thoughts of violence and the other half would be using it as proof we need hard Brexit.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

Maybe there's a case for questioning the necessity of revealing it at all, but the original point was that the backlash is unwarranted given the context of the interview as a whole.

 

If it was a black man saying this half the media would be praising him for bravely revealing how white patriarchal society had turned him to thoughts of violence and the other half would be using it as proof we need hard Brexit.

If I said that i'd been out with a baseball bat a few nights to clobber some random black lad to death do you think i'd be praised for my honesty?

 

Defending him is absolutely barmy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

If I said that i'd been out with a baseball bat a few nights to clobber some random black lad to death do you think i'd be praised for my honesty?

 

If you said you'd done that 40 years ago under extreme stress (someone close to him had been raped) - and that what you did was "horrible" and you were "ashamed" of it, maybe you would be praised.

 

Given that he and you are agreed that his reaction was completely wrong, what are you criticising him about?

- The thing he's already criticised himself for? If so, what's the point of that?

- Admitting it, instead of covering it up or pretending it didn't happen? Surely it helps general understanding if people admit the wrong things they've done?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

I'd suggest if Neeson spent a week looking for a black guy to kill and didn't find one, he wasn't looking very hard.

He said he was waiting outside of bars and clubs essentially waiting for someone to start on him. 

 

Not that that makes any difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, ozleicester said:

Welll, as long as the Americans dont sabotage the entire economy you should be fine

How have they done that exactly?  They have been buying most of their oil at market rate until very recently, and only now have they held the funds in escrow to try and force out the dodgy leader.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

I'd suggest if Neeson spent a week looking for a black guy to kill and didn't find one, he wasn't looking very hard.

 

He said that he hung around outside pubs, hoping that a black man would start on him, to give him an excuse to commit the violent assault he had in mind.

Presumably nobody provoked him, his rage wore off a bit and he came to his senses after a week?

 

I'd guess feelings of powerlessness over what had happened (the rape) were a part of it - a primeval, maybe macho feeling that "this is so awful, I must be able to do something about this.....and what I must do is wreak vengeance on someone of the same race". That's clearly wrong, as he himself says. But doesn't it highlight (a) the widespread instinct for revenge; (b) a subliminal racism that exists in many of us to varying degrees?

 

Lucky that nobody did provoke him, though. Maybe, in reality, he wouldn't have committed such a grievous assault....but maybe he would have.

 

I can't remember ever having felt like attacking a random person because of their race. But I've certainly noticed subliminal racism in myself - and have imagined myself committing extremely violent revenge attacks on people (only identified individuals who've done serious harm, as far as I can recall). I've never taken it as far as Neeson, but I've never had someone close to me get raped. Who knows how any of us would react in extreme circumstances? Given what he said about his upbringing in a strife-torn N. Ireland, it also highlights the need to avoid unnecessarily fanning the flames of potential conflict and running the risk of spirals of revenge violence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

If I said that i'd been out with a baseball bat a few nights to clobber some random black lad to death do you think i'd be praised for my honesty?

 

Defending him is absolutely barmy.

If you said it in the context of pointing out it was a horrific thing to do then yeah.  I certainly wouldn't be attacking you for it in any case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I agree. He's not describing his long-ago feelings of violent vengefulness and racism with approval. He's describing them with extreme disapproval, but saying that he can understand the instinct for violent revenge, even if he disapproves.

 

The only problem is that there's the racism element mixed in with the instinct for violent revenge. He's essentially making a dual confession / condemnation of his past self: for vengefulness and for racism, which complicates the debate....maybe unavoidably if that's what he felt and he wants to be honest. Violent revenge alone would have led him to seek to kill the particular (black) bloke who raped his friend/relation. Seeking an excuse to kill a random black man who didn't rape her is blatant racism.  

 

That's not a criticism of Neeson for revealing what he felt - and the self-disgust he now feels about it. He's been brave, honest and doesn't deserve the backlash. His revelation should encourage honest self-criticism by others, not self-righteous condemnation.

I think it's important to realise that almost every white living in Britain in the 60's and 70's was racist to some degree. We didn't know any better, we hadn't been educated to understand what we were saying and thinking was racist. It's the same for sexism and many other biases. The great thing is that we've grown from there. In 30 years, people will be looking back at the present day through new eyes and seeing many other problems that we are relatively unaware of. I reckon before my children die of old age our present generation will be seen as evil for the way we've treated animals and the planet.

 

 

1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

If I said that i'd been out with a baseball bat a few nights to clobber some random black lad to death do you think i'd be praised for my honesty?

 

Defending him is absolutely barmy.

They are not defending what he wanted to do then, they are praising that he has identified this and grown past it to become a "better" man whilst having the balls to admit what he did and how it was wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Liam Neeson doesn’t deserve the backlash

Agree.

 

6 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

especially in the context of Northern Ireland during the Troubles. In fact, he should be being commended for being honest about it, and for expressing the disgust and horror of his own actions and prejudices at that particular time.

Disagree. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

When Liam Neeson said he'd done something he was ashamed of I assumed he meant agreeing to be in The Phantom Menace.

 

It's a strange circular argument though, isn't it? Bloke says I did something bad and I regret it, and a lot of people's response is to say you did a bad thing and you should regret it. If I was Liam Neeson I'd be like, "yes that's what I said. Do you want to hear about my new film? There's a snow plough in it"

 

 

 

 

Brilliant lol 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Samilktray said:

I’m finding it a bit weird tbh and as for “I’m glad John Barnes has said something to defend him” lol 

Well I am compared to some of the other stuff. Morgan compared him to the KKK, that's laughable. It's not right what Neeson did and he shouldn't have said it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...