Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[Nod.E]

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

You miss the point.  Gay kids in England today still have to put up with it being used as a lazy insult by their peers.  It doesn't matter how much ill meaning is intended in individual instances, its frequent usage sends a clear message that society thinks there's something bad about an immutable feature of theirs.  Suggesting we teach people to have the empathy to be a bit more imaginative with how they express their frustration is hardly 1984.

By virtue purely of being in a minority group, gay kids will feel insecure about that feature. I agree with what you're saying, it doesn't help, but I still don't think something like pride is necessary. If anything it only serves to isolate a community rather than integrate it.

Edited 22 June 2021 by Nod.E

[Carl the Llama]

2 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

By virtue purely of being in a minority group, gay kids will feel insecure about that feature. I agree with what you're saying, it doesn't help, but I still don't think something like pride is necessary. If anything it only serves to isolate a community rather than integrate it.

How so?

[Nod.E]

31 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

How so?

Because it's annoying and it's another weapon in the ultra left's armoury of telling everyone else how much better than everyone else they are and how everyone else is doing everything wrong.

 

For the record I myself am slightly left of centre.

[Oxfordfox83]

England would do much better in this tournament if Harry Kane suffered a non-fatal shooting

[Carl the Llama]

1 minute ago, Nod.E said:

Because it's annoying and it's another weapon in the ultra left's armoury of telling everyone else how much better than everyone else they are and how everyone else is doing everything wrong.

 

For the record I myself am slightly left of centre.

The goal is to raise awareness of missing LGBT+ rights, the hardships still faced by them the world over, and to underline that it's ok to not be heterosexual.  Mostly that takes the form of parades in some places, special content on some websites, special events at some arts places and similar awareness events in places of education (which is a good thing imo, children and students should be properly educated on the subject, an exhibition in the library or a guest lecturer at an optional event or what have you isn't going to cause harm to anyone). Company's being right-on with their rainbow logos and obvious cash-grabs is cringeworthy content for sure, but the question I always have to ask when this comes up is how does the month affect any average person who doesn't feel any personal inclination to engage with it in ways that alter their daily life and can't otherwise be easily ignored?  

 

On another note I'm a little concerned at how you've zeroed in on "the ultra left [...] telling everyone else how much better than everyone else they are".  I'm not saying you mean harm but honestly it's the sort of thing I'd expect to hear in a Sargon of Akkad or Paul Joseph Watson video.  The way it re-targets the conversation towards imagined slights and implicitly frames the debate as a far-left issue, deliberate or not, is classic them.  I'm not trying to offend you but equally I hope that sentiment does offend you, at least a little bit!

[UpTheLeagueFox]

On 17/06/2021 at 21:41, Dr The Singh said:

Dragovic was good enough for us and should have been a club legend

He was a technically smart footballer, should've played more for us.

Shabbily treated but, you know, the manager was Claude Puel etc etc

[Nod.E]

13 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

The goal is to raise awareness of missing LGBT+ rights, the hardships still faced by them the world over, and to underline that it's ok to not be heterosexual.  Mostly that takes the form of parades in some places, special content on some websites, special events at some arts places and similar awareness events in places of education (which is a good thing imo, children and students should be properly educated on the subject, an exhibition in the library or a guest lecturer at an optional event or what have you isn't going to cause harm to anyone). Company's being right-on with their rainbow logos and obvious cash-grabs is cringeworthy content for sure, but the question I always have to ask when this comes up is how does the month affect any average person who doesn't feel any personal inclination to engage with it in ways that alter their daily life and can't otherwise be easily ignored?  

 

On another note I'm a little concerned at how you've zeroed in on "the ultra left [...] telling everyone else how much better than everyone else they are".  I'm not saying you mean harm but honestly it's the sort of thing I'd expect to hear in a Sargon of Akkad or Paul Joseph Watson video.  The way it re-targets the conversation towards imagined slights and implicitly frames the debate as a far-left issue, deliberate or not, is classic them.  I'm not trying to offend you but equally I hope that sentiment does offend you, at least a little bit!

It's not that easily ignored since people like to ram it down your throat and let you know how much of a good person they are for supporting the cause, regardless of whether they actually get that involved.

 

On the second paragraph, I can't be offended since non of those names mean anything to me. Perhaps 'ultra left' isn't the correct phrase, so I'll paint a picture instead.

 

Emily 🌈✨ - she/her 

Here's what you can do to help on [insert latest bandwagon here]

[Alf Bentley]

41 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

It's not that easily ignored since people like to ram it down your throat and let you know how much of a good person they are for supporting the cause, regardless of whether they actually get that involved.

 

On the second paragraph, I can't be offended since non of those names mean anything to me. Perhaps 'ultra left' isn't the correct phrase, so I'll paint a picture instead.

 

Emily 🌈✨ - she/her 

Here's what you can do to help on [insert latest bandwagon here]

 

You seem to be describing virtue signaling - something that I find annoying myself. Maybe there are more virtue signalers on the left than the right, but it's a problem across the spectrum on social media.

Likewise, Gay Pride is an issue - and often a very beneficial, worthwhile one - for people of all political persuasions.

 

Couldn't you reserve your scorn for those virtue signaling about Gay Pride, rather than feel hostile towards Pride itself?

People virtue signal about all sorts of stuff - charity fundraising, personal/children's achievements, care for environment/animals, support for our troops etc. Likewise, you get plastic/glory-seeking football fans chatting shit about LCFC or England.

It seems reasonable to scorn the virtue signalers without scorning the good causes they use to promote themselves, surely? 

 

Edited 23 June 2021 by Alf Bentley

[Nod.E]

1 minute ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

You seem to be describing virtue signaling - something that I find annoying myself. Maybe there are more virtue signalers on the left than the right, but it's a problem across the spectrum on social media.

Likewise, Gay Pride is an issue - and often a very beneficial, worthwhile one - for people of all political persuasions.

 

Couldn't you reserve your scorn for those virtue signaling about Gay Pride, rather than feel hostile towards Pride itself?

People virtue signal about all sorts of stuff - charity fundraising, personal/children's achievements, care for environment/animals, support for our troops etc. Likewise, you get plastic/glory-seeking football fans chatting shit about LCFC or England.

It seems reasonable to scorn the virtue signalers without scoring the good causes they use to promote themselves, surely? 

You've hit the nail on the head.

 

Pride is just the virtue signallers' flavour of the month at the moment. 

 

Shows the damaging impact it has that I was able to position my initial rant at Pride itself. To me at least it has become only about the signallers. 

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

You've hit the nail on the head.

 

Pride is just the virtue signallers' flavour of the month at the moment. 

 

Shows the damaging impact it has that I was able to position my initial rant at Pride itself. To me at least it has become only about the signallers. 

Then with respect, perhaps the fault does not lie solely with the signallers.

 

I hear similar to this argument with respect to climate change and how some of the more extreme groups are "controlling the narrative" about it - if that is true, that's only the case because people are letting them do so. Perception is obviously important, but allowing perception of what some people say about a matter to blind oneself to the facts of that matter and so regard it less just seems like a cop-out to me.

[Nod.E]

20 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Then with respect, perhaps the fault does not lie solely with the signallers.

 

I hear similar to this argument with respect to climate change and how some of the more extreme groups are "controlling the narrative" about it - if that is true, that's only the case because people are letting them do so. Perception is obviously important, but allowing perception of what some people say about a matter to blind oneself to the facts of that matter and so regard it less just seems like a cop-out to me.

I'm modest enough to recognise nothing I do is going to make the blindest bit of difference to the world's issues. 

 

I don't think that's a cop-out, just realistic.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

I'm modest enough to recognise nothing I do is going to make the blindest bit of difference to the world's issues. 

 

I don't think that's a cop-out, just realistic.

I can sympathise with that. One person, mostly, won't make that kind of difference.

 

But lots of people all thinking and acting on the same thing, not giving up...that is how real, meaningful change happens. And that's how I rationalise my own optimism about how things can change and how what every person thinks matters.

[Nod.E]

13 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I can sympathise with that. One person, mostly, won't make that kind of difference.

 

But lots of people all thinking and acting on the same thing, not giving up...that is how real, meaningful change happens. And that's how I rationalise my own optimism about how things can change and how what every person thinks matters.

Agree.

 

The kind of 'following' issues like pride get ain't it, though. 

 

Surely the objective is to capture the neutrals like me, and that's when momentum can gather.

 

Afraid if anything it's having an adverse effect. 

 

To be fair, I'm asking for a paradox. A fair, level headed person isn't going to be the type of person to start a movement.

 

It's like expecting a referee not to want to be at the centre of attention. You have to be that kind of person to want to be a ref in the first place.

[leicsmac]

27 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Agree.

 

The kind of 'following' issues like pride get ain't it, though. 

 

Surely the objective is to capture the neutrals like me, and that's when momentum can gather.

 

Afraid if anything it's having an adverse effect. 

 

To be fair, I'm asking for a paradox. A fair, level headed person isn't going to be the type of person to start a movement.

 

It's like expecting a referee not to want to be at the centre of attention. You have to be that kind of person to want to be a ref in the first place.

You're right about the paradox.

 

In fact, I think it actually runs deeper than that. There are powerful people who don't want to see the kind of change that Pride and the climate change movement engender, and they work hard to actively encourage the more extreme speakers to the forefront of the debate on them, purely because they know that the "neutrals" will react in exactly the way you describe here and nothing will change.

 

The solution, hard as it is, is to be able to look past the messenger and instead look at the content, the facts, of the message. But it is difficult because many people simply don't have the time or the wherewithal to do so.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

I like Andy Murray, as a bloke and as a tennis player.

[leicsmac]

41 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

I like Andy Murray, as a bloke and as a tennis player.

Hopefully that's not a particularly unpopular opinion, unless the xenophobe problem is worse than thought.

[ozleicester]

Why do so many people throw out the "lefties being better than us" line?

Its like being called a "tree hugger" because you care about the environment or a "do gooder" because you help others.

why are these things delivered as a negative?

[The Bear]

6 hours ago, ozleicester said:

Why do so many people throw out the "lefties being better than us" line?

Its like being called a "tree hugger" because you care about the environment or a "do gooder" because you help others.

why are these things delivered as a negative?

Because people need to attack others to make themselves feel better about themselves not doing or caring about that sort of stuff. They know it's right deep down. 

[The Bear]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Hopefully that's not a particularly unpopular opinion, unless the xenophobe problem is worse than thought.

I have an irrational dislike of him tbh. Mainly because people desperately fawn over him even though he's not an Englishman. I know that shouldn't matter, but in Sport it does to me. I root for England. Not Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. 

 

I get an even bigger annoyance with Johanna Konta too, who was born and raised in Australia. She even represented them until 2012! She's not English in any way shape or form. She just has British citizenship. Same with Rusedski when he was around. 

 

Sporting rules on representation are too fuzzy IMO. Same with footballers too, like Mark Lawrenson playing for Ireland FFS. You should only be able to represent the country you spent the majority of time in until you were  legally an adult. 

Edited 1 July 2021 by The Bear

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, The Bear said:

I have an irrational dislike of him tbh. Mainly because people desperately fawn over him even though he's not an Englishman. I know that shouldn't matter, but in Sport it does to me. I root for England. Not Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. 

 

I get an even bigger annoyance with Johanna Konta too, who was born and raised in Australia. She even represented them until 2012! She's not English in any way shape or form. She just has British citizenship. Same with Rusedski when he was around. 

 

Sporting rules on representation are too fuzzy IMO. Same with footballers too, like Mark Lawrenson playing for Ireland FFS. You should only be able to represent the country you spent the majority of time in until you were  legally an adult. 

WRT Murray there, I'm sorry but I have to agree that's irrational. By the rules of the ATP, when he steps on court he's representing the United Kingdom, not any of the home nations. Same as any athlete not playing football, rugby or a handful of other sports. There really shouldn't be an issue there.

 

Can see what you mean with the other two paragraphs, though.

[RonnieTodger]

I'm glad that England provided a hostile atmosphere for Germany and if that means booing their anthem or whilst they had the ball, who cares? All this crying over booing an anthem is ****ing pathetic. We get it every time we play Scotland, Wales or Rep. Ireland and it's just written off as "passion". That was the best atmosphere I've ever seen England have at the new Wembley.

 

The response has been absolutely laughable. Load of #FBPE freaks that have no interest in football, looking for a stick to beat England with.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

6 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

I'm glad that England provided a hostile atmosphere for Germany and if that means booing their anthem or whilst they had the ball, who cares? All this crying over booing an anthem is ****ing pathetic. We get it every time we play Scotland, Wales or Rep. Ireland and it's just written off as "passion". That was the best atmosphere I've ever seen England have at the new Wembley.

 

The response has been absolutely laughable. Load of #FBPE freaks that have no interest in football, looking for a stick to beat England with.

Just because other countries might boo our anthem it doesn't mean we have to boo others. It just sounds shite. We should be better than that.

Equally I don't understand why people boo taking the knee. It takes a few seconds, it doesn't hurt anyone yet for some reason it makes people SO angry.

[SpacedX]

1 minute ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Just because other countries might boo our anthem it doesn't mean we have to boo others. It just sounds shite. We should be better than that.

Contrary to popular belief, actually many countries don't. Absolutely agree with you otherwise, it's undignified and unnecessary and had nothing to do with the atmosphere created at Wembley or the performance of the team irrespective of whatever the previous post claims.  

[RonnieTodger]

7 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Just because other countries might boo our anthem it doesn't mean we have to boo others. It just sounds shite. We should be better than that.

Equally I don't understand why people boo taking the knee. It takes a few seconds, it doesn't hurt anyone yet for some reason it makes people SO angry.

Absolutely agree with that. 

 

I just don't see what the fuss is about on booing an anthem. There are many things about football fans that are "undignified" and England will never win any popularity contests in Europe. I just hate this miserable attempt to cloud over what was a great day. I'm not saying I'd boo Germany's anthem, but I don't understand why it's such a big deal.

[Dunge]

I thought a lot of the England/Germany stuff was pantomime and nothing more than that. The cheer for the crying child was the worst part of it, although I’m still not entirely sure it was all for that given that (I think) Thomas Muller was being subbed at the same time.

 

As for taking the knee, I can understand why some have reservations about it but I haven’t heard any decent argument for booing. I’m kind of dreading yet also fascinated by what will happen when we’re all back at the KP. I expect it to happen; I intend to applaud politely. I have little gauge for what the reaction around me will be.