Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[Nod.E]

2 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Sorry for coming back to this one but I've only now got the time to sit down and pen a proper response.  Not many people use wheelchairs but we'll redesign buildings on the off-chance that one day a person using one will visit it.  Blind people are a tiny minority but you can't use a pedestrian crossing without encountering mainstream adaptations to accommodate them.  Should we be have been more like the Spartans and dashed any 'malformed' babies upon the rocks at birth?

 

Where do you draw the line?  You don't.  You continue extending your respect to members of society until they're all receiving it regardless of their personal story (unless they're like a criminal or something, an exception to every rule).  That's what the pronouns issue is a step towards, respect for everyone, not just the most commonly represented people.

 

Now if you're going to make the argument that it's pointless or even a negative then the onus is on you to indicate how.  So far you've failed to do that. You've only spoken in terms of what you 'feel' about the subject, it's hardly facts and logic.  What is the harm caused when you read a person's pronouns in their social media profile?  Arguing against something without having a clearly defined point about why it's bad is imo much more badly spent energy than adding 2 words to your self-description to aid understanding between people. 

The blind and disabled require structural adaptations to literally live their lives and perform basic tasks. Of course we should support that.

 

There is quite a difference between the examples you've provided, and the mental tip toe-ing we now have to do to avoid offending somebody (cultural adaptation) for not saying whatever the latest 'right thing' to say is.

 

I can respect somebody without having to keep a log of all of the latest 'in' words at any given time. And back to the topic of pronouns, I can understand their use if somebody's pronouns would go against what you might expect from a person's appearance or if somebody has a gender neutral appearance. My original point was that it's attention seeking, because seemingly the vast majority of its use is from young, straight, white girls. Not exclusively of course.

 

I just hate virtue signalling. It grinds my gears. I'm here to voice my irritation, not a lot more.

[Strokes]

I think it’s high time people started tolerating my intolerance.

[Carl the Llama]

17 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

The blind and disabled require structural adaptations to literally live their lives and perform basic tasks. Of course we should support that.

 

There is quite a difference between the examples you've provided, and the mental tip toe-ing we now have to do to avoid offending somebody (cultural adaptation) for not saying whatever the latest 'right thing' to say is.

 

I can respect somebody without having to keep a log of all of the latest 'in' words at any given time. And back to the topic of pronouns, I can understand their use if somebody's pronouns would go against what you might expect from a person's appearance or if somebody has a gender neutral appearance. My original point was that it's attention seeking, because seemingly the vast majority of its use is from young, straight, white girls. Not exclusively of course.

 

I just hate virtue signalling. It grinds my gears. I'm here to voice my irritation, not a lot more.

Re. Mental tip-toeing see my comment to Dunge above.

 

Re. Keeping a log of 'in' words.  That's a new set of goalposts which I can't claim to be able to be as informative on.  If you've ever encountered this issue you're more qualified to talk about it than I am.

 

Re. Your original point, thank you, that's a bit more nuanced than "the whole pronouns thing is attention seeking b*llocks".  I still disagree that cis people only do it for attention (just because they got your attention it doesn't mean they meant to, I'd imagine most of them want you to barely register it as just another normal part of their profile) but if that's the current overall impression then at least we've moved on from its initial widespread perception as something a few attention-seeking LGBT people do. 

Edited 7 July 2021 by Carl the Llama

[Buce]

44 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

The blind and disabled require structural adaptations to literally live their lives and perform basic tasks. Of course we should support that.

 

There is quite a difference between the examples you've provided, and the mental tip toe-ing we now have to do to avoid offending somebody (cultural adaptation) for not saying whatever the latest 'right thing' to say is.

 

I can respect somebody without having to keep a log of all of the latest 'in' words at any given time. And back to the topic of pronouns, I can understand their use if somebody's pronouns would go against what you might expect from a person's appearance or if somebody has a gender neutral appearance. My original point was that it's attention seeking, because seemingly the vast majority of its use is from young, straight, white girls. Not exclusively of course.

 

I just hate virtue signalling. It grinds my gears. I'm here to voice my irritation, not a lot more.

 

I'll wager you do exactly that.

 

Do you still use terms like 'half-caste'? Or any of the miriad terms used to describe a 'gay' person in the not so distant past?

[RumbleFox]

3 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Sorry for coming back to this one but I've only now got the time to sit down and pen a proper response.  Not many people use wheelchairs but we'll redesign buildings on the off-chance that one day a person using one will visit it.  Blind people are a tiny minority but you can't use a pedestrian crossing without encountering mainstream adaptations to accommodate them.  Should we be have been more like the Spartans and dashed any 'malformed' babies upon the rocks at birth?

 

Where do you draw the line?  You don't.  You continue extending your respect to members of society until they're all receiving it regardless of their personal story (unless they're like a criminal or something, an exception to every rule).  That's what the pronouns issue is a step towards, respect for everyone, not just the most commonly represented people.

 

Now if you're going to make the argument that it's pointless or even a negative then the onus is on you to indicate how.  So far you've failed to do that. You've only spoken in terms of what you 'feel' about the subject, it's hardly facts and logic.  What is the harm caused when you read a person's pronouns in their social media profile?  Arguing against something without having a clearly defined point about why it's bad is imo much more badly spent energy than adding 2 words to your self-description to aid understanding between people. 

Amazing post. Bravo. X 

[RumbleFox]

6 hours ago, Oxfordfox83 said:

I’m going to be that guy and say best male player. Serena and Martina have strong claims to be the definitive best…

Of course and thank for pulling me up on that, my bad. Serena the GOAT. X 

[Facecloth]

5 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

Of course and thank for pulling me up on that, my bad. Serena the GOAT. X 

Graf 

[Strokes]

3 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I'll wager you do exactly that.

 

Do you still use terms like 'half-caste'? Or any of the miriad terms used to describe a 'gay' person in the not so distant past?

Is half caste not ok now?

Edited 7 July 2021 by Strokes

[The Bear]

23 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Monster Munch is an over-rated snack.  90% air and what little substance they do have finds its way exclusively to the gaps in and around your teeth.

 

22 hours ago, ealingfox said:

 

I have to agree. They've also changed the recipe for the pickled onion one recently and it's now nowhere near as good.

I still love em. And pickled onion is the worst flavour of the lot. Flaming Hot are the daddy, then Beef. 

[Oxfordfox83]

4 hours ago, Strokes said:

Is half caste not ok now?

Nope.

 

Wasn’t ok in the 90s either. Not in a judgey way, but I heard the term used around people it was being applied to and it clearly wasn’t cool.

[Oxfordfox83]

Back to unpopular opinions:

 

Kane’s penalty tonight was worse than Southgate’s in 96

[leicsmac]

If you look at past football commentators, it's possible Sam Matterface, bad as he is, isn't even in the worst five.

[ozleicester]

On 07/07/2021 at 07:28, Nod.E said:

I don't think I'll ever get my head around small minorities receiving somewhat mainstream cultural attention and adaptation. By definition there are so many minorities, that where do you draw the line? Having a day to day conversation is becoming an absolute minefield. 

 

If we as a 'mainstream' society spent as much time trying to make the top 1% of wealth holders accountable as we do apologising for our privileges, the disadvantaged and minority groups would find themselves in a much better position.

 

It feels like badly spent energy to me.

easy answer, dont spend the energy fighting it. 

It harms no-one, helps many and takes zero effort

[Strokes]

5 hours ago, Oxfordfox83 said:

Nope.

 

Wasn’t ok in the 90s either. Not in a judgey way, but I heard the term used around people it was being applied to and it clearly wasn’t cool.

Really?

I can’t think of a time when I’ve heard it used negatively.

it’s all getting a bit silly this ever evolving language now, if you ask me, Surely it’s just as much about what the person using it intended, as it is how it’s interpreted by a recipient or stranger?

[ealingfox]

9 hours ago, The Bear said:

 

I still love em. And pickled onion is the worst flavour of the lot. Flaming Hot are the daddy, then Beef. 

 

Flaming Hot I can get on board with. Thinking Beef is not the worst flavour definitely belongs in this thread.

[Big Dave]

30 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Really?

I can’t think of a time when I’ve heard it used negatively.

it’s all getting a bit silly this ever evolving language now, if you ask me, Surely it’s just as much about what the person using it intended, as it is how it’s interpreted by a recipient or stranger?

Similar to the term ‘coloured’ (referring to a black person).  When I was growing up, this term seemed to be acceptable, and now it is not. However you can use ‘person of colour’?.

Edited 8 July 2021 by Big Dave

[lcfc278]

1 hour ago, Big Dave said:

Similar to the term ‘coloured’ (referring to a black person).  When I was growing up, this term seemed to be acceptable, and now it is not. However you can use ‘person of colour’?.

Can you though? Didn't that guy in the FA get sacked for using the term 'people of colour'? (I think he did a few other things too but this was the final nail)

 

I know it's a term used in the USA freely but I'm sure people have been slated for using that term in the UK.

[SpacedX]

On 07/07/2021 at 00:28, Nod.E said:

If we as a 'mainstream' society spent as much time trying to make the top 1% of wealth holders accountable as we do apologising for our privileges, the disadvantaged and minority groups would find themselves in a much better position.

So a "small minority" then? 

[Houdini Logic]

On 06/07/2021 at 23:53, brucey said:

People volunteering their pronouns = cool. 

People being asked their pronouns = not cool. 

 

Some people don't realise that the latter can be problematic. I've seen examples of companies who have asked everyone to add their pronouns to their email signatures to normalise it. Someone has also asked me my pronouns in real life. They don't realise that not all trans-identified people are "out", and asking them for their pronouns is essentially asking them to either out themselves or straight up lie. 

 

I personally believe pronouns should be an indicator of how others honestly perceive me. Not how I wish to be perceived/called. I know most people feel differently, but then there's a slippery slope from that into neopronouns. 

The company I work for have started to ask people to declare their pronouns at the start of each meeting and you also have to put them in your online profile.

 

I've always been an advocate of doing what I can to make people feel more included, but having it mandated at work - where I can tell other people are clearly uncomfortable - makes it all very awkward

[ozleicester]

7 minutes ago, Houdini Logic said:

The company I work for have started to ask people to declare their pronouns at the start of each meeting and you also have to put them in your online profile.

 

I've always been an advocate of doing what I can to make people feel more included, but having it mandated at work - where I can tell other people are clearly uncomfortable - makes it all very awkward

Why do you think they are uncomfortable?

[Houdini Logic]

15 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Why do you think they are uncomfortable?

I'd be completely guessing - so your guess is as good as mine

[brucey]

2 hours ago, Houdini Logic said:

The company I work for have started to ask people to declare their pronouns at the start of each meeting and you also have to put them in your online profile.

 

I've always been an advocate of doing what I can to make people feel more included, but having it mandated at work - where I can tell other people are clearly uncomfortable - makes it all very awkward

Are you able to ask the person who made that decision to reconsider, pointing out the problem with making it mandatory? (forcing trans people to out themselves, forced disclosure of private information, could be unsafe for trans people to disclose because transphobic people exist etc.) 

[Aus Fox]

Sorry wrong thread - all of my opinions are popular.

 

Edited 8 July 2021 by Aus Fox

[Carl the Llama]

13 minutes ago, brucey said:

Are you able to ask the person who made that decision to reconsider, pointing out the problem with making it mandatory? (forcing trans people to out themselves, forced disclosure of private information, could be unsafe for trans people to disclose because transphobic people exist etc.) 

How does it force people to out themselves?  If you're consciously avoiding revealing your trans identity then surely you'd just continue to use the pronouns that maintain your cis appearance until such a time as you're comfortable with people knowing you're trans?  

[brucey]

24 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

How does it force people to out themselves?  If you're consciously avoiding revealing your trans identity then surely you'd just continue to use the pronouns that maintain your cis appearance until such a time as you're comfortable with people knowing you're trans?  

Because the alternative is misgendering oneself (i.e. actively lying, rather than just letting people assume whatever they want). 

 

Using the sexuality analogy again, it's like making it mandatory for everyone to declare to coworkers whether they are gay/straight/bi. The closeted gay man would have to announce to everyone that he is straight, rather than having the choice to just shrug away any questions about his home life. Just let people disclose if they wish, like they already do. 

 

Edited 8 July 2021 by brucey