Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[Jon the Hat]

18 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

I still disagree that cis people only do it for attention

OK now you got me. I don't care in the slightest how people live their lives, but I object to being called cis. Cis can sod off.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

OK now you got me. I don't care in the slightest how people live their lives, but I object to being called cis. Cis can sod off.

"Cis", Latin: "the same as". Oppositional term to "trans".

 

It's technically correct and it's hardly a derogatory term, how is it problematic?

[Jon the Hat]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

"Cis", Latin: "the same as". Oppositional term to "trans".

 

It's technically correct and it's hardly a derogatory term, how is it problematic?

It's use to talk about everyone else like they are some kind of homogeneous group.  Its up there with "The black / muslim / etc community" and can get in the bin with all of them.

[Dunge]

13 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It's use to talk about everyone else like they are some kind of homogeneous group.  Its up there with "The black / muslim / etc community" and can get in the bin with all of them.

It feels like it’s worth having a simple word to define something in what can be a detailed conversation, and is a lot less problematic than “normals”.

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It's use to talk about everyone else like they are some kind of homogeneous group.  Its up there with "The black / muslim / etc community" and can get in the bin with all of them.

...and sometimes it is used as a simple descriptor in the same way as any other demographic term is, as Dunge says.

[Carl the Llama]

57 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

OK now you got me. I don't care in the slightest how people live their lives, but I object to being called cis. Cis can sod off.

As has been said it's a term for being able to distinguish between trans and non-trans people.  There's nothing malicious about it in the slightest.

[Jon the Hat]

7 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

As has been said it's a term for being able to distinguish between trans and non-trans people.  There's nothing malicious about it in the slightest.

It is a label which is generally used in an us vs them type context.  I don't like it.  

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It is a label which is generally used in an us vs them type context.  I don't like it.  

Can this be proven in any way beyond mere assertion? Purely out of interest.

 

NB. With greatest respect and apologies for digging this up (as I think it relevant to the discussion), but one of the last times stuff like this was talked about your opinion on trans (used as a descriptor) folks in general and trans women in particular wasn't exactly...flattering of them. Perhaps some extra wood is being carried here?

[Ian Nacho]

The constant pressure on all people to be the same, and if people aren’t the same then there must be some sort of sexism or racism going on. There was a news report on Eaat Midlands Today a couple of days ago about skateboarding as an Olympic sport and how there wasn’t many black people who do the sport, and there was these centres opening to encourage different ethnicities to start skateboarding. Okay that’s fair enough and it’s great to get young people into new activities, but what is wrong in saying black people don’t want to skateboard because they don’t want to? Why can’t we embrace cultural differences instead of making everyone the same? 

[Jon the Hat]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Can this be proven in any way beyond mere assertion? Purely out of interest.

 

NB. With greatest respect and apologies for digging this up (as I think it relevant to the discussion), but one of the last times stuff like this was talked about your opinion on trans (used as a descriptor) folks in general and trans women in particular wasn't exactly...flattering of them. Perhaps some extra wood is being carried here?

I have no issue with Trans rights as long as they don;t impinge on other hard fought rights for women.  

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I have no issue with Trans rights as long as they don;t impinge on other hard fought rights for women.  

And they don't, so it's a non-issue except in the minds of those want to make it one.

 

Equal rights aren't pie, it's not a zero-sum game.

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

It is a label which is generally used in an us vs them type context.  I don't like it.  

Cite your examples please, it's an academic term not a casual slur.  For all the leftie media I consume I'm yet to encounter any serious person demonising the cisgenders, let alone broad support for it.  In fact the only place you regularly hear about this concept of trans vs cis is from fear mongering 'news' outlets who rely on their audience's ignorance of the subject.

 

If we aren't allowed a word to describe the majority of people who conform to the gender they're assigned at birth then we have to make the distinction between "transgender people" and "people". 

[The Bear]

5 hours ago, Houdini Logic said:

The company I work for have started to ask people to declare their pronouns at the start of each meeting and you also have to put them in your online profile.

 

I've always been an advocate of doing what I can to make people feel more included, but having it mandated at work - where I can tell other people are clearly uncomfortable - makes it all very awkward

If it was me I'd just put in Lord or Viscount. 

[LiberalFox]

I don't agree with making people declare pronouns. If people volunteer them then okay. 

[don_danbury]

14 hours ago, Oxfordfox83 said:

Nope.

 

Wasn’t ok in the 90s either. Not in a judgey way, but I heard the term used around people it was being applied to and it clearly wasn’t cool.

that's new to me. 

[Jon the Hat]

23 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Cite your examples please, it's an academic term not a casual slur.  For all the leftie media I consume I'm yet to encounter any serious person demonising the cisgenders, let alone broad support for it.  In fact the only place you regularly hear about this concept of trans vs cis is from fear mongering 'news' outlets who rely on their audience's ignorance of the subject.

 

If we aren't allowed a word to describe the majority of people who conform to the gender they're assigned at birth then we have to make the distinction between "transgender people" and "people". 

Nothing wrong with the term Non-Transgender people.  Mind you, I also think talking about "Trans people" is also a generalisation which we shouldn't really do.

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

And they don't, so it's a non-issue except in the minds of those want to make it one.

 

Equal rights aren't pie, it's not a zero-sum game.

Cant be bothered

Edited 8 July 2021 by Jon the Hat

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Cant be bothered

Fair enough.

 

Tbh I'd agree with not using the term "trans people" as anything other than a simple descriptor, same as any other demographic.

[brucey]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

And they don't, so it's a non-issue except in the minds of those want to make it one.

 

Equal rights aren't pie, it's not a zero-sum game.

It's a really complex topic which can't be simply dismissed as a non-issue, because it clearly is an issue in specific situations (competitive sports etc). It really depends on your definition of 'woman', and whether you believe women's rights are sex-based or gender identity-based.

 

[doverfox]

Pronouns always been a minefield are you a miss or a mrs. So tend to just say hi.

[filbertway]

5 hours ago, brucey said:

Because the alternative is misgendering oneself (i.e. actively lying, rather than just letting people assume whatever they want). 

 

Using the sexuality analogy again, it's like making it mandatory for everyone to declare to coworkers whether they are gay/straight/bi. The closeted gay man would have to announce to everyone that he is straight, rather than having the choice to just shrug away any questions about his home life. Just let people disclose if they wish, like they already do. 

 

You must find talking to new people difficult, constantly worried about offending people

 

 

[filbertway]

Sterling is a pound shop Lloyd Dyer. 

 

[brucey]

1 minute ago, filbertway said:

You must find talking to new people difficult, constantly worried about offending people

 

Tbh I just avoid talking to people in general, it's much easier  

 

[filbertway]

1 minute ago, brucey said:

Tbh I just avoid talking to people in general, it's much easier  

 

 

[Oxfordfox83]

12 hours ago, Strokes said:

Really?

I can’t think of a time when I’ve heard it used negatively.

it’s all getting a bit silly this ever evolving language now, if you ask me, Surely it’s just as much about what the person using it intended, as it is how it’s interpreted by a recipient or stranger?

I mean, I’m not an expert, beyond knowing some mixed race people who hate the term. But the phrase itself is hardly pleasant: half anything is seldom good, and the concept of caste is that some people are fundamentally superior or inferior to others, with a large part of that in certain parts of the Hindu world being entangled with skin colour.

 

I imagine you’re too old for Harry Potter, but it’s essentially the same term as Mudblood.

 

And yep, if my gran had used it innocently I wouldn’t leap on her, because context and intent is important. But if you’ve taken 5 minutes to think about the phrase I think you just won’t use it. Because why would you?