2018/19 U23s, Development, U19s etc

[The_Rorab]

15 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Sherwood is a helmet usually but he’s bang on with a lot of what he says here. Would love to hear Beaglehole and Rudkins views on this and then Puel’s.

I have always wondered with players like Kane and Lingard for example who don't impress and then suddenly perform brilliantly when given the confidence to start whether there's actually a thinner line between whether a young player is good enough or not.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, The_Rorab said:

I have always wondered with players like Kane and Lingard for example who don't impress and then suddenly perform brilliantly when given the confidence to start whether there's actually a thinner line between whether a young player is good enough or not.

I think confidence and momentum as a young player is the difference between making it or not. I don’t buy that talented players will always make it, the majority of these young players are immensely gifted but it’s so difficult to carve a career at the top level.

[Mark]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Sherwood is a helmet usually but he’s bang on with a lot of what he says here. Would love to hear Beaglehole and Rudkins views on this and then Puel’s.

I'd like to know why Callum Elder is being held on till he's 25 with not one appearance for us and any sign he's even Championship standard.

[Foxxed]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/next-generation-2018-20-of-the-best-talents-at-premier-league-clubs

 

Shane Flynn? Never heard of him. But apparently he's one to watch. In previous years they had Hamza, Darnell, Thandi and Husek. Never heard of Husek. They keep the previous years players updated too.

Edited 9 October 2018 by Foxxed

[Dan LCFC]

On 06/10/2018 at 13:59, Ric Flair said:

Uche was signed for 7 figures when he was about 17 and came very highly rated, a bit like what we’ve done with Calum Wright. The signings of Loft, Ramsay and other players released from PL clubs aged 19/20 is potentially top loading our academy and holding back the progress of promising youngsters like Tee and Pascanu. 

****ing hell really? I always thought he'd come for peanuts.

 

I sadly have to agree with you as well. I cannot name a single player bar Andy King we've signed for the youth team that was released by another, that's made an impact here, and that's one player in over a decade.

 

Everything about our youth set up points to win at all costs over development.

[themightyfin]

Uche was not 7 figures. It was a nominal fee.

[themightyfin]

2 hours ago, Foxxed said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/next-generation-2018-20-of-the-best-talents-at-premier-league-clubs

 

Shane Flynn? Never heard of him. But apparently he's one to watch. In previous years they had Hamza, Darnell, Thandi and Husek. Never heard of Husek. They keep the previous years players updated too.

Ireland U16 international. Signed him when he was 15 last summer from St Joseph's Boys. Then he left to sign for Bray Wonderers in Jan on a free transfer.

 

Only for him to sign again for us this summer again free transfer.

Don't think he's played for our U18 yet this season but he's only 16 so time yet.

[Foxxed]

3 hours ago, themightyfin said:

Ireland U16 international. Signed him when he was 15 last summer from St Joseph's Boys. Then he left to sign for Bray Wonderers in Jan on a free transfer.

 

Only for him to sign again for us this summer again free transfer.

Don't think he's played for our U18 yet this season but he's only 16 so time yet.

Is this chopping and changing of teams normal in the academy? Sounds fairly crazy. We've got a few Irish lads in our academy now too.

[Shane]

On 07/10/2018 at 14:54, The_Rorab said:

I have always wondered with players like Kane and Lingard for example who don't impress and then suddenly perform brilliantly when given the confidence to start whether there's actually a thinner line between whether a young player is good enough or not.

Just look at even Ndukwu! Being involved in our pre-season took his game to another level. Last season he was poor in my opinion, but this season he was toying with the opposition before his injury. I assume it’s because of the confidence he gained by training with our seniors everyday.

 

Forget bringing Barnes back in the middle of a successful loan, why don’t we give Ndukwu a chance when he’s back from injury in December. It’s the perfect time for Ndukwu to progress as he has the confidence and momentum on his side. 

[Shane]

On 07/10/2018 at 16:08, Mark said:

I'd like to know why Callum Elder is being held on till he's 25 with not one appearance for us and any sign he's even Championship standard.

Elder looked better than Chilwell in pre season. I know it’s only pre season but he left everything on the pitch in those games. Probably because he cares and wants to make it here.

 

He is Fuchs replacement imo. 

Edited 10 October 2018 by Shane

[Ric Flair]

30 minutes ago, Shane said:

Just look at even Ndukwu! Being involved in our pre-season took his game to another level. Last season he was poor in my opinion, but this season he was toying with the opposition before his injury. I assume it’s because of the confidence he gained by training with our seniors everyday.

 

Forget bringing Barnes back in the middle of a successful loan, why don’t we give Ndukwu a chance when he’s back from injury in December. It’s the perfect time for Ndukwu to progress as he has the confidence and momentum on his side. 

Ndukwu from what I’ve been told needs constantly pushing to keep motivated and make an impact. It’s quite clear he’s got a lot of talent, he’s had a few years where he’s not pushed on as much as they thought he would but then he seemed to really do well in pre-season and in the U23’s. I’m still baffled how he hasn’t had a loan move, likewise Josh Knight who both look like they’d excel at League One level standing on their heads. Maybe that’s the problem, the Championship won’t take an interest in such players?

[Webbo]

There needs to be a rule where league 1 and 2 clubs can have 5 or 6 loanees in their team. Even allow the parent club to pay their wages. It would help the lower leagues and help develop youngsters..

[themightyfin]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

There needs to be a rule where league 1 and 2 clubs can have 5 or 6 loanees in their team. Even allow the parent club to pay their wages. It would help the lower leagues and help develop youngsters..

They are allowed to have 8 loans at a time and can play a max of 5.

The parent club can also pay their wages . So your wish is granted. 

[Webbo]

24 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

They are allowed to have 8 loans at a time and can play a max of 5.

The parent club can also pay their wages . So your wish is granted. 

Sounds like they've listened to me. 

[davieG]

Leicester City's Academy side got back to winning ways with a fine 3-0 success over Aston Villa at Bodymoor Heath on Saturday.
Following a defeat by the same scoreline at Manchester City in the Premier League Cup the earlier weekend, Will Russ and Justen Kranthove scored before the break while Sidnei Tavares added another with 10 minutes of normal time remaining. 

It is a result which leaves the young Foxes in sixth position in U18 Premier League South ahead of next Saturday's visit to Staplewood to tackle Southampton (12pm BST kick-off).

After that, on Saturday 3 December, City welcome West Ham United's youngsters to Belvior Drive before picking up their Premier League Cup campaign at home against Blackburn Rovers.

City: Bosworth, Barrett, Thomas, Elewa-Ikpakwu (James 40), Kranthove, Husek, Pennant, Loughlan, Russ (Myring 84), Tavares (Fitzhugh 88), Flynn

Subs not used: Evans, Gyamfi

Goals: Russ 7, Kranthove 9, Tavares 80

[Foxy-Lady]

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 09:08, Ric Flair said:

Ndukwu from what I’ve been told needs constantly pushing to keep motivated and make an impact. It’s quite clear he’s got a lot of talent, he’s had a few years where he’s not pushed on as much as they thought he would but then he seemed to really do well in pre-season and in the U23’s. I’m still baffled how he hasn’t had a loan move, likewise Josh Knight who both look like they’d excel at League One level standing on their heads. Maybe that’s the problem, the Championship won’t take an interest in such players?

I am reliably informed that Josh Knight has had at least two potential loan deals 'thwarted' by the LCFC hierarchy since last Jan.

Opportunities in each of last 2 transfer windows to go on loan to different Div1 sides but was not allowed to go as LCFC preferred him to stay and support Beagleholes U23 campaign.

Would not be overly surprised if he were to leave at end of season when his current deal runs-out...

[Stadt]

Winning at youth levels is great for the players personally but means little about development, a second place finish in an U23 league with loads of senior players playing is nothing to crow about. What's the point in building a £100m training ground if you're leaving a man that used to play with lead toys as kid in charge?

[Foxxed]

1 hour ago, Foxy-Lady said:

I am reliably informed that Josh Knight has had at least two potential loan deals 'thwarted' by the LCFC hierarchy since last Jan.

Opportunities in each of last 2 transfer windows to go on loan to different Div1 sides but was not allowed to go as LCFC preferred him to stay and support Beagleholes U23 campaign.

Would not be overly surprised if he were to leave at end of season when his current deal runs-out...

What's the development logic in keeping him here? I'm trying to stay clear of the idea that Beaglehole is attempting to gain glory for himself in the u23 league. Knight should probably go to a championship side too.

[The_Rorab]

1 hour ago, Foxy-Lady said:

I am reliably informed that Josh Knight has had at least two potential loan deals 'thwarted' by the LCFC hierarchy since last Jan.

Opportunities in each of last 2 transfer windows to go on loan to different Div1 sides but was not allowed to go as LCFC preferred him to stay and support Beagleholes U23 campaign.

Would not be overly surprised if he were to leave at end of season when his current deal runs-out...

If that's genuinely the case then I think it shows a real lack of foresight and idiotic prioritisation on behalf of the club. If I were Knight and that had happened, I'd consider leaving 100%

[Jimmy]

3 hours ago, Foxxed said:

What's the development logic in keeping him here? I'm trying to stay clear of the idea that Beaglehole is attempting to gain glory for himself in the u23 league. Knight should probably go to a championship side too.

There isn’t any, trying to win the U23s is why Barnes was recalled too.

 

We need an academy director Rudkin still has that role and it should be split from DoF duties to a specialist role how it was before 

Edited 12 October 2018 by Jimmy

[l444ry]

The Academy is possibly being looked at as a business to make money in the future as well. It's a fine balancing act between bringing players into the first team, keeping them to develop ourselves or loaning out to the wrong club where his potential value might go through the floor.

Edited 12 October 2018 by l444ry

[lgfualol]

9 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

I am reliably informed that Josh Knight has had at least two potential loan deals 'thwarted' by the LCFC hierarchy since last Jan.

Would not be overly surprised if he were to leave at end of season when his current deal runs-out...

This is dodgy. And to make things worse we just spend big money on 2 young CBs. He will definitely be off which seems a waste as he is clearly better than u23s.

[TheUltimateWinner]

Unfortunately players careers aren't being put first by the club, instead the club seem insistant on keeping hold of players so that they can try and win these youth leagues. The squads a mix of some who are at the end of their youth development that will never make it (ie. 20-23) and some high flyers who are above youth football but need a test in the real leagues. 

 

The penny seemingly hasn't dropped that if they loan them out, they'll come back better players which is better for the club in the long run.

Edited 12 October 2018 by TheUltimateWinner

[Foxy-Lady]

9 hours ago, TheUltimateWinner said:

Unfortunately players careers aren't being put first by the club, instead the club seem insistant on keeping hold of players so that they can try and win these youth leagues. The squads a mix of some who are at the end of their youth development and will never make it (ie. 20-23) and some high flyers who are above youth football but need a test in the real leagues. 

 

The penny seemingly hasn't dropped that if they loan them out, they'll come back better players which is better for the club in the long run.

My fear is that there may be a degree of self-preservation here on the part of Beaglehole/Rudkin to prove their worth in the eyes of our very ambitious owners whose mission is to firmly establish LCFC as a leading club in ALL areas.

If you cant tangibly evidence 'success' in their eyes then their might not be a seat for you "on the bus".......and the primary ways to tangibly evidence success at Yth level is progress to 1st team (Chilwell, Chaudhoury, Barnes), transfer revenues via sale of players....or winning!

Rudkin appears to be showing positive signs of success in the key areas of transfer revenues and club infra-structure improvement so hopefully that will continue and he will become less inclined to try and micro-manage the Academy system which might benefit from a "fresh-pair-of-eyes" overseeing the operation to bring some new perspective

 

I do sometimes question whether the 'token'' first team appearances we see from some of your current Yth players (ie Chaudhoury, Knight, Thomas, Hughes, Ndukwu, Johnson, Gordon etc...) is simply a media driven exercise to increase player transfer values (which definitely makes good business sense!) and/or to promote the careers of 'others' as opposed to the players themselves.  I guess we will know the answer to that question in a few years time when we see what happens to the careers of the current crop of excellent U23 players we currently have in our system...!

[l444ry]

50 minutes ago, Foxy-Lady said:

My fear is that there may be a degree of self-preservation here on the part of Beaglehole/Rudkin to prove their worth in the eyes of our very ambitious owners whose mission is to firmly establish LCFC as a leading club in ALL areas.

If you cant tangibly evidence 'success' in their eyes then their might not be a seat for you "on the bus".......and the primary ways to tangibly evidence success at Yth level is progress to 1st team (Chilwell, Chaudhoury, Barnes), transfer revenues via sale of players....or winning!

Rudkin appears to be showing positive signs of success in the key areas of transfer revenues and club infra-structure improvement so hopefully that will continue and he will become less inclined to try and micro-manage the Academy system which might benefit from a "fresh-pair-of-eyes" overseeing the operation to bring some new perspective

 

I do sometimes question whether the 'token'' first team appearances we see from some of your current Yth players (ie Chaudhoury, Knight, Thomas, Hughes, Ndukwu, Johnson, Gordon etc...) is simply a media driven exercise to increase player transfer values (which definitely makes good business sense!) and/or to promote the careers of 'others' as opposed to the players themselves.  I guess we will know the answer to that question in a few years time when we see what happens to the careers of the current crop of excellent U23 players we currently have in our system...!

Excellent observation/post. Slightly spoilt by the obvious Beaglehole dig nevertheless.