2018/19 U23s, Development, U19s etc

[RumbleFox]

19 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I've been banging on about this for years now, we've pumped millions and millions in to all facets of this club but the leadership of our academy has remained the same for a decade. Where are we as a club a decade on? You can't expect the same level of improvement with zero change surely? We are going to have one of the best training facilities in the country but still the same gig at the academy, why not be brave and ambitious to match this in a very important and valuable area of the club?

I must admit it seems odd that we don't go out and look for the very best young coaches out there.  As you say, you do not get better results if you keep doing the same thing so I think we should take risks and be proactive and ambitious and try to get in the best youth coaches we can stretch to.  I feel the same about the "mental" side of the game too.  We should put as much money as possible into good psychological staff also.  X

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

I must admit it seems odd that we don't go out and look for the very best young coaches out there.  As you say, you do not get better results if you keep doing the same thing so I think we should take risks and be proactive and ambitious and try to get in the best youth coaches we can stretch to.  I feel the same about the "mental" side of the game too.  We should put as much money as possible into good psychological staff also.  X

Bang on mate, some of the lesser known reasons behind our success was the work of Steve Way and Paul Balsom. Way did the psychological stuff that is hugely important in top level sport and Balsom was the mastermind behind sports science. We binned a lot of this off under Ranieri after we'd won the league which for me is bordering on unforgivable. Just a huge shame and waste of what we'd built better than our rivals. 

[RumbleFox]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Bang on mate, some of the lesser known reasons behind our success was the work of Steve Way and Paul Balsom. Way did the psychological stuff that is hugely important in top level sport and Balsom was the mastermind behind sports science. We binned a lot of this off under Ranieri after we'd won the league which for me is bordering on unforgivable. Just a huge shame and waste of what we'd built better than our rivals. 

Agree completely.  Lord knows why we got rid of them.  I think in life in general but especially in the "masculine" world of football the psychological stuff is often seen as "namby-pamby" but for me it is vital.  You can see what difference a good frame of mind makes when you watch a game.  The "fine margins" chat is completely right - of course having a good psychological team is not going to make us world beaters but if it helps one or two players perform slightly better it is all part of a bigger whole which could sustain and improve our development.  You are right about the sports science stuff too and for me we should have a cutting edge statistical team too.  I know some folk think stats are for losers but, again, fine margins  and small improvements in every facet of the team could lead to big improvements over time on the pitch.

Edited 3 October 2018 by RumbleFox

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, RumbleFox said:

Agree completely.  Lord knows why we got rid of them.  I think in life in general but especially in the "masculine" world of football the psychological stuff is often seen as "namby-pamby" but for me it is vital.  You can see what difference a good frame of mind makes when you watch a game.  The "fine margins" chat is completely right - of course having a good psychological team is not going to make us world beaters but if it helps one or two players perform slightly better it is all part of a bigger whole which could sustain and improve our development.  You are right about the sports science stuff too and for me we should have a cutting edge statistical team too.  I know some folk think stats are for losers but, again, fine margins  and small improvements in every facet of the team could lead to big improvements over time on the pitch.

Ranieri was a bit more old school, we ought to have pleaded with them to come back though.

[1972 Fox]

4 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

I genuinely dont really care what they do or how they do it as it doesn't impact me in any way ....I just find it very annoying and it offends my intelligence when I read all the media bulls*** they peddle about how well they are doing and how successful they are.

Im fairly confident I could finish in the top 3 of an U14s league if I was managing a team of decent 18 year olds 

 

I happen to have some very good connections at the club and if you check most of my posts, you will find that I am simply trying to put a more balanced view on all the media spin/hype and I rarely bother to post subjective comments.....even though there is quite a lot I could actually say that might considerably influence the view of others.  Personally, id rather just stick with the facts and let others formulate their own views

 

 "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story"... appears to be the mantra of the LCFC media spin machine

I take it that you are a Leicester supporter? If so you really should care as our youth strategy could by very important to the future success of the club.

 

I agree with you that the way we do it here is not the way that I would like to see us developing youth and you are correct about the way the club media spin things to make it sound better than it actually is.

 

I feel particularly sorry for young goalkeepers at the club as I don't see the chances of one breaking through as very high if we are prepared to spend £12/13m(?) on a back up keeper. And before that paying money for the likes of Jakupovic and Zeiler. Maybe our home grown goalkeepers have just not been quite good enough? 

[KingsX]

22 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

I only actually make the point to add balance to the media-spin about how well the U23s are doing as, in reality, they are competing against younger and less experienced players and the results are not an accurate reflection of player development or coaching expertise.

 

3 hours ago, FIF said:

the U23 team isn't just about the academy and it's players. The two are linked but they are not exclusive.

 

For me the questions are:

 

- How is LCFC really doing in producing measurable value from the academy?

 

- Does consistently playing seniors in the U23 have a net negative value over time, measured against Arsenal-style youth development?  Assuming yes, how big is the opportunity cost?

 

Where is the whole body of facts to enable those judgments.  I only see pieces of the picture, sliced by well-ground axes, ranging from the “LCFC spin machine” touting U21 European cup stars, to @Foxy-Lady focusing on the relatively high age of our U23 XIs.  (The inverse of our senior first XI -- how odd -- but I digress.)

 

From my uninformed distance, our Club looks OK.   In the past year the Club plugged a new England international into the XI, and made a nice penny on Tom Lawrence.  But are those in line with our usual end product, or outliers?  And how does that compare with other clubs?! 

 

From the lack of responses, it appears such analysis isn’t available now.  A good degree thesis for some Sports Management student then.  Expose academies’ end product in a simple apples-to-apples way, and correlate it with the varied approaches (loans vs internal development, “pushing” youth vs mixing in senior players).  It would be worth publishing.  (And the author worth hiring by LCFC.)

 

Of course much depends on the resources of the club.  It’s one thing to turn out players of Championship and PL caliber by signing them as kids.  It’s another if you signed them off Birmingham or a Ligue Deux side for a few million pounds, and loaned them out by the dozens all over Europe.  That needs factored in.

[nwl fox]

12 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

I genuinely dont really care what they do or how they do it as it doesn't impact me in any way ....I just find it very annoying and it offends my intelligence when I read all the media bulls*** they peddle about how well they are doing and how successful they are.

Im fairly confident I could finish in the top 3 of an U14s league if I was managing a team of decent 18 year olds 

 

I happen to have some very good connections at the club and if you check most of my posts, you will find that I am simply trying to put a more balanced view on all the media spin/hype and I rarely bother to post subjective comments.....even though there is quite a lot I could actually say that might considerably influence the view of others.  Personally, id rather just stick with the facts and let others formulate their own views

 

 "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story"... appears to be the mantra of the LCFC media spin machine

Yeah i get what you're saying, but you've got to be realistic, its marketing and thats just the way it works, their job is to talk us up.

[Aus Fox]

16 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

I genuinely dont really care what they do or how they do it as it doesn't impact me in any way ....I just find it very annoying and it offends my intelligence when I read all the media bulls*** they peddle about how well they are doing and how successful they are.

Im fairly confident I could finish in the top 3 of an U14s league if I was managing a team of decent 18 year olds 

 

I happen to have some very good connections at the club and if you check most of my posts, you will find that I am simply trying to put a more balanced view on all the media spin/hype and I rarely bother to post subjective comments.....even though there is quite a lot I could actually say that might considerably influence the view of others.  Personally, id rather just stick with the facts and let others formulate their own views

 

 "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story"... appears to be the mantra of the LCFC media spin machine

 Never let the facts get in the way of a good story, yet compares this situation of our u23s with winning an u 14s league with a team of decent 18 year olds. The facts as supplied by you are that the average of our under 23s team was 22.9. Yes we’ve included some senior pros but we were still under the age of 23.

Your balanced opinion appears to be very one sided and suits the agenda your argument, the very same thing uou acuse the club of.

The facts are we have currently an England international left back that has come through the club ranks, we have a player out on loan tearing up the championship with great performance after great performance at a top championship club.

We have a couple of others very close to first team action at the minute and if it wasn’t for Hughes injury he would either be close to the first team or out on loan in the championship.

Is it academy perfect? No but which club couldn’t do more. Is it spying for itself? Absolutely it is, it’s produced international footballers, premier League winners and soldier championship and League one players over the years.

The fact is we do ok, we have a system to try and keep some first team players fit and it can only benefit youngsters playing alongside solid pros, who show willing to pitch in and play for the u23s not have a hissy fit about not paying. 

From the games I have seen I think we have 4 or 5 players currently I’m the 23s that will go in and have solid Championship/ Premier League careers.

[abdul_fox]

13 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Bang on mate, some of the lesser known reasons behind our success was the work of Steve Way and Paul Balsom. Way did the psychological stuff that is hugely important in top level sport and Balsom was the mastermind behind sports science. We binned a lot of this off under Ranieri after we'd won the league which for me is bordering on unforgivable. Just a huge shame and waste of what we'd built better than our rivals. 

Balsom is still at the club iirc. 

[Foxy-Lady]

8 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

 Never let the facts get in the way of a good story, yet compares this situation of our u23s with winning an u 14s league with a team of decent 18 year olds. The facts as supplied by you are that the average of our under 23s team was 22.9. Yes we’ve included some senior pros but we were still under the age of 23.

Your balanced opinion appears to be very one sided and suits the agenda your argument, the very same thing uou acuse the club of.

 

The fact is we do ok, we have a system to try and keep some first team players fit and it can only benefit youngsters playing alongside solid pros, who show willing to pitch in and play for the u23s not have a hissy fit about not paying. 

 

No desire to enter any argument on this as there is no right or wrong here but I do think you missed my point on 'Balanced opinion'...

 

-  The facts as supplied by you are that the average of our under 23s team was 22.9. Yes we’ve included some senior pros but we were still under the age of 23.

At no stage did I question or disagree with this view. In fact, quite the opposite as it was me who actually did the research to illustrate it! 

I merely highlighted the fact that the avg age of our team was +5 years older than the teams we are playing against so that those who are "less informed" might have a clearer understanding of how/why we are achieveing our success......ie Balance!

 

-  "winning an u 14s league with a team of decent 18 year olds"

Simply a tongue in cheek comment to highlight that beating sides who are significantly younger (ie -4years) is not the noteworthy achievement that the LCFC media wish to portray to the "less informed" .....ie Balance!

 

It is what it is so its entirely up to you whether you accept my comment in the spirit in which it is meant (ie balance!).  It just concerns me that we have made huge strides forward as a club at all levels over the past 6 years yet we still have the same coaching set-up and mentality  at U18-U23 level that we had when we were playing in Division 2.

One of the best Youth coaches at LCFC academy is no longer there and many of the young players we are discussing today are products of his coaching. It will be interesting to see how the "next generation" of young talent developes from hereon without his tutelage as we are beginning to see the emergence of "bought-in" players rather than those developed though our own yth system (ie Loft, Ramsey, Hughes, Thomas, Gordon, Elder, Shade etc...)

 

[lcfc sheff]

I'm not too fussed if it sounds like I'm overhyping the guy, but Hamza needs a loan in January for definite. There's a real gap within the England set up for a player with his abilities, if playing regular football he'd be in the under 21s for definite.   

 

 Besides Barnes he's my shout for our next England player.

Edited 4 October 2018 by lcfc sheff

[TheMightySystem]

1 hour ago, lcfc sheff said:

I'm not too fussed if it sounds like I'm overhyping the guy, but Hamza needs a loan in January for definite. There's a real gap within the England set up for a player with his abilities, if playing regular football he'd be in the under 21s for definite.   

 

 Besides Barnes he's my shout for our next England player.

Its weird, Puel obviously rates him as he is involved in first team training, taken with the first team to away games like Newcastle and was given a new contract. Yet he isn't to be seen on the bench in the league and doesn't get played in the cups for some reason. I think in January we need to sell one of Iborra or Silva (Probably Silva) and give Choudhury more game time off then bench if we rate him that highly. This means we have Ndidi and Mendy starting, Iborra and Choudhury to fight for the bench spot and James as 5th choice backup (Although Puel might prefer him over Iborra and could push Choudhury even further down the pecking order in which case loan him out.)

[Foxxed]

On 03/10/2018 at 11:49, Ric Flair said:

Bang on mate, some of the lesser known reasons behind our success was the work of Steve Way and Paul Balsom. Way did the psychological stuff that is hugely important in top level sport and Balsom was the mastermind behind sports science. We binned a lot of this off under Ranieri after we'd won the league which for me is bordering on unforgivable. Just a huge shame and waste of what we'd built better than our rivals. 

Paul's still with us.

 

Steve Way? I guess you mean Ken Way: https://twitter.com/ken_way
 

Here's that Telegraph article after he was sacked: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/02/26/premier-league-champions-leicester-lost-way-sense-direction/

 

I found this BBC article featuring him which seems more in-depth: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36189778

 

Quote

Whether rewarding his team with pizza for clean sheets or silencing talk of the title until the last few games, Ranieri has been a master of keeping his players focused and united this season.

 

Leicester's performance psychologist Ken Way told BBC Sport: "There are two psychologists at the club. One is me and the other is Claudio. The way he has spoken to the players has been exactly the same as when addressing the media. It's all about focusing on the process not the outcome, and some of the lines he uses leave my jaw on the floor."

 

Way credits Pearson for assembling the backroom team, which has fostered a culture where players are accountable for their own actions. Sprint scores are presented to the group en masse, midweek five-a-side tables are published and players watch clips of each other's performances.

 

"It's about empowering the players to make decisions for themselves rather than ruling over them," said Reeves. "It helps with the group culture and the fighting spirit."

 

The players have also been enjoying themselves. "Avoiding relegation last season was pressure," Way added. "If anything, it's reduced as this season has progressed. It's the same for the staff. When we won 3-1 at Manchester City, we were laughing to each other: 'What could really happen this season?'"

 

The celebrations at Vardy's house once the title was won gave an insight into the bond that exists in the team. That is nothing new.

Way says big personalities such as Wes Morgan, Christian Fuchs, Robert Huth and Vardy have been essential to the team ethic, even if they enjoy belting footballs at each other on the training pitch or cracking eggs on each other's heads.

 

Edited 4 October 2018 by Foxxed

[Ric Flair]

10 hours ago, Foxxed said:

Paul's still with us.

 

Steve Way? I guess you mean Ken Way: https://twitter.com/ken_way
 

Here's that Telegraph article after he was sacked: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/02/26/premier-league-champions-leicester-lost-way-sense-direction/

 

I found this BBC article featuring him which seems more in-depth: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36189778

 

 

Last I’d heard, he no longer came to Leicester and is based in Sweden and then Belgium from time to time with Leuven. Has he now returned working for Leicester?

[Guest]

I guess our u4's team will kick Arsenal's ass.

[Foxxed]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Last I’d heard, he no longer came to Leicester and is based in Sweden and then Belgium from time to time with Leuven. Has he now returned working for Leicester?

Ken no longer works with us. His Twitter was last updated in 2016 and I couldn't get his website to load. Last thing online was the telegraph article I think.

 

Lcfc's website claims Paul still works with us but also works for the Swedish national team: https://www.lcfc.com/teams/staff/sports-science-staff

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, Foxxed said:

Ken no longer works with us. His Twitter was last updated in 2016 and I couldn't get his website to load. Last thing online was the telegraph article I think.

 

Lcfc's website claims Paul still works with us but also works for the Swedish national team: https://www.lcfc.com/teams/staff/sports-science-staff

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjzi-bwhe_dAhXOZFAKHV6BChwQFjAGegQIABAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.devonlive.com%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2Ffootball-news%2Fmeet-torquay-man-who-guiding-815330&usg=AOvVaw2e3m0rj3p6xCZr5SZlCwiP

 

This implies he left us and now works at Leuven and still with Sweden which he's done for 15 years.

[Foxxed]

12 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjzi-bwhe_dAhXOZFAKHV6BChwQFjAGegQIABAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.devonlive.com%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2Ffootball-news%2Fmeet-torquay-man-who-guiding-815330&usg=AOvVaw2e3m0rj3p6xCZr5SZlCwiP

 

This implies he left us and now works at Leuven and still with Sweden which he's done for 15 years.

Lcfc mentions he also works for Sweden with the emphasis on also. But nothing about Leuven. But he's definitely doing something there https://www.kuleuven.be/wieiswie/en/person/00121758

 

I can't decide who's right tbh - Devon online or our website. Anyhow, Ken's gone and Paul might be working for both city and leuven or perhaps just leuven if our website is wrong. 

Edited 5 October 2018 by Foxxed

[EnderbyFox]

 

[TheMightySystem]

No Choudhury, I have said this so many times but hopefully on the bench tomorrow.

[Shane]

Conor Tee starting 

[st albans fox]

9 minutes ago, TheMightySystem said:

No Choudhury, I have said this so many times but hopefully on the bench tomorrow.

Doubt it with silva unable to get into the match day squad ..... hamza will be in the first team group in case there are any last minute issues. 

[gurru991]

Leicester take an early lead

[Webbo]

We're going to muller these.

[lgfualol]

1 hour ago, EnderbyFox said:

 

Wow we actually put out a young team