Work dilemma

[Buce]

 

All other considerations aside, I wouldn't advise anybody to change jobs until the Brexit mess is sorted out, there are far too many imponderables.

[Crinklyfox]

8 hours ago, ozleicester said:

You owe your employer NOTHING,

 

You have worked hard and been successful - they have paid you for your work.

You have abided their rules and they have now changed them.

 

As evidenced by their decision to change your hours to suit themsleves, you can NOT rely on them to look after you, you are disposable and  only valued while they get what they want from you.

 

Make a decision that suits YOUR needs. 

I'm 100% in agreement with ozleicester.

 

The only constant in life is change.  You may be happy with an employer now and enjoy your work but life comes with no guarantees for the future.  Any decision you make will be a risk but it's one you have to be happy with.

 

I'd like to share a couple of instances from my own working life with you.

 

Firstly, I was in a job that I could handle easily with people I liked, and could possibly have spent the rest of my career there, but I felt that I owed it to my family to try to support them as well as I could, so left for a better paid job.  I've never regretted it.  I was able to progress up the career ladder and fulfil my potential.  Later I was offered a high level job that would probably have fast tracked me to a very senior level in the company but I turned it down as in my view it would have required me giving almost all my time and energies to the company at the expense of my family.  I've never regretted that either.

 

Secondly, I ended up working in a company that treated me very well in a job I loved with a great bunch of colleagues.  After ten years there was a change in company management at board level, the result was a company restructure and the closure of my office.  One week we were all told to report to different departments within the building on a Friday; one group of employees were told that they were immediately being made redundant; another group that they would be made redundant in three months time; another group that they would be made redundant in six months time; and a final group that their jobs were being transferred to another office and that they would be offered the chance to move to that office.  In all 90% of my colleagues were being made redundant.  Many had twenty or thirty years of their working life in the company.  Quite a few were in tears.  Their past work record, loyalty and achievements counted for nothing.

 

I worked for a total of twenty-one years in that company, surviving yet another restructure until a new Finance Director thought that it would be a really good idea to get all the UK employees to sign new contracts which had very negative effects on potential redundancy payments and would significantly reduce pension payments.  At this point in time, and being close enough to retirement age, I decided that I wasn't going to take it any more, refused to sign the new contact and was summarily ejected without redundancy payment.  So the company that had started as being so brilliant ended up being really bad.  

[Innovindil]

9 hours ago, ozleicester said:

You owe your employer NOTHING,

 

You have worked hard and been successful - they have paid you for your work.

You have abided their rules and they have now changed them.

 

As evidenced by their decision to change your hours to suit themsleves, you can NOT rely on them to look after you, you are disposable and  only valued while they get what they want from you.

 

Make a decision that suits YOUR needs. 

Eh? My understanding of it was they had agreed to change his hours so he could have another day off but work longer Tuesday-Friday so he saved on childcare costs. 

[Countryfox]

Better the devil you know .....      only move when a) you have to ...   or b) the other job is SOOOO much better in terms of money/progression etc and you will kick yourself if you don't.

 

Easy answer ...   stay.   Something even better may be just around the corner.

[rachhere]

I personally don't think you can put a price on how flexible and supportive they have been with you. It sounds like it's been a very stressful and emotional time for you and your family and I would question whether it's really the right time to make things more complicated again, even if it is for a bit more money. From what you have said you would also lose that one day a week with your nephew, which sounds pretty significant to me, again bearing in mind the situation that you are in. Possibly less significant now, but as he gets older I think that time invested in him could be really important. 

[Babylon]

Spend time with your family... you can get a better paying job when the kid starts school. You won't get that time back.

[davieG]

Have you checked out the stability of each company, does the new one need you as a replacement or are they expanding which can be good and bad.

 

I had someone leave my dept. for a better paid fast rising company but he was back within 18 months as the new one went bankrupt due to expanding too quickly.

[Guest]

You sound happy where you are and they sound a fantastic company. STAY. The others could turn out to be shit and just for a little extra cash. You've already decided that cash isn't everything. If the company changes in the future you can still hawk around for another job. 

[FoxNotFox]

If things are ok where you are, if you find the role satisfying and compatible with your life, and it meets your monetary requirements, then stay put. And I say that not because you owe your employers anything (that's a different discussion) but that you owe yourself it. All most of us want is a degree of security. If you have that and you enjoy your work place then my own feeling is that you'd be unwise to trade that for a comparatively unknown situation. 

 

It's always tempting, and flattering of course, when another offer comes along but don't feel a compulsion to take it. Turning such offers down (if that's what you genuinely want to do) act as an affirmation of your current situation and choices.

 

From a personal perspective, I would not trade my time simply for money (the caveat being that you make enough as it is) Give me the 4 day week anytime over £3k pa extra. Given that you have recently renegotiated these new hours for purposes of child care arrangements, I'd be inclined to stick with it - at least for a while to see how it works out. The fact that employers are prepared to do such things speaks a great deal as to how they regard you.

[Itsthejoeker]

Be honest with your employer and they’ll be honest with you.

 

Whilst it seems like your employer is proactive around training and remuneration, I had a similar chat with my work place and it seemed to wake them up as to why I would be interested somewhere else. They moved me onto a more interesting account, gave me some autonomy, and a couple of month latter agreed on a 7k pay rise. 

 

They may may want to understand why you’re tempted and close the gap, or even do a little more to keep you. 

 

 

[ozleicester]

3 hours ago, Innovindil said:

Eh? My understanding of it was they had agreed to change his hours so he could have another day off but work longer Tuesday-Friday so he saved on childcare costs. 

Apologies, I must've have misunderstood.

[Free Falling Foxes]

How did you feel when Kante, Drinkwater & Mahrez (add Maguire & Chillwell in a few months time ) left for pasture new?

If you thought, Best of luck to them, I wish them well - then leave.

If you thought, Ungrateful, unthankful, unloyal, selfish money grabbing, glory hunting ba$tards - then stay.

I am sure you wouldn't wish to be an hypocrite.

Edited 20 November 2018 by Free Falling Foxes

[The whole world smiles]

use the situation to try and squeeze a bit of extra dough out your current employer. your market value is clearly higher than you realise.

[Rob1742]

Interesting to see how most on here go for the safe option. 

Safe is good, but then it is just what it is, safe.

 

I suggest people do 3-5 years at any company, achieve in that period, then move on up the ladder. 

 

A CV that shows growth and achievement , then movement to the next level is always one employers want to see.

 

Depends what people want, but sometimes it’s good to “go for it”, provided you have done your homework on the position and the company. Then  start thinking of where you want to be within 3-5 years time and work towards that.

 

A true story, eventually I set up on my own and it went very well. But I needed help, got on well with a guy I knew and offered him an unbelievable profit sharing deal on top of his wages. He took the “safe” option of staying put. When he said he wouldn’t join me, I was pleased as at that point I realised if he couldn’t see the opportunity I was offering him, he wouldn’t see others either. 

 

I see him occasionally now, it would have been life changing for him, it would have cost me a fortune, but he just took the safe option and is still there now. His safe decision cost him dearly, but saved me a fortune. 

 

No great night out has ever ever started with a salad. 

 

 

 

 

[rachhere]

4 minutes ago, Rob1742 said:

Interesting to see how most on here go for the safe option. 

Safe is good, but then it is just what it is, safe.

 

I suggest people do 3-5 years at any company, achieve in that period, then move on up the ladder. 

 

A CV that shows growth and achievement , then movement to the next level is always one employers want to see.

 

Depends what people want, but sometimes it’s good to “go for it”, provided you have done your homework on the position and the company. Then  start thinking of where you want to be within 3-5 years time and work towards that.

 

A true story, eventually I set up on my own and it went very well. But I needed help, got on well with a guy I knew and offered him an unbelievable profit sharing deal on top of his wages. He took the “safe” option of staying put. When he said he wouldn’t join me, I was pleased as at that point I realised if he couldn’t see the opportunity I was offering him, he wouldn’t see others either. 

 

I see him occasionally now, it would have been life changing for him, it would have cost me a fortune, but he just took the safe option and is still there now. His safe decision cost him dearly, but saved me a fortune. 

 

No great night out has ever ever started with a salad. 

 

 

 

 

I think the reason most people are saying that though is because of his family circumstances. If that weren't the case I am sure most people would encourage the move or at least say to give it some serious thought 

[FoxesDeb]

1 hour ago, Rob1742 said:

No great night out has ever ever started with a salad. 

Love that!

[leicesterlad1989]

On ‎19‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 20:05, Fox in the North said:

Currently I have a fairly decent job as an account manager at an insurance broker which specialises in social clubs. I have been at the broker for just over 3 and a half years. They have been good to me. They have trained me up from scratch and given me reaosnable

increases. Only just recently they agreed to consolidate my hours and change my hours from Monday-Friday 9-5 to Tuesday-Friday 8-5/5:30 as I am fosterering my nephew (baby boy 9 months old) and me and my partner cannot afford the extra childcare costs (can just about afford 2 days a week). Throughout the entire process this year (which has been quite stressful for me and my family), work have been very supportive.

 

I have recently received a job offer from another broker. I was not looking for work but still received a message from the company on LinkedIn. Out of curiosity I accepted an interview to see what the job was all about. The role is still an account manager role but covers a wider range of businesses with future development potential and they have offered  continued education course. The wage is higher by about £3,000 but they are not as flexible with working hours and so would have to pay for an extra day of childcare. An annual bonus of £500 to £2,000 is also provided.

 

I’m incredibly torn between a job that I am

comfortable with and an interesting different role that probably has more potential in the long run. I am also torn as my current work have done a lot to help me with my personal situation. I’m not unhappy with my current role but the new offer is tempting.  I am not sure if I stay in my current role that I’ll be able to progress and if I’ll start to get bored from operating in a niche business. 

 

Has anyone experienced anything similar? Would be very grateful for any advice as I am struggling to see a clear winner for pro’s and cons. Am I being to kind about my current work? 

I am currently going through something similar to a certain extent. I have worked and trained myself into a position where I could be earning more money than I am currently. The company I work for has actually paid for some of the training and qualifications I've gained. I've not looked for other work nor have I received any job offers but I do know from speaking to ex-colleagues, the sort of money I should be on.

 

The one major thing preventing me from looking or moving on is the flexibility I currently have. I can work my hours so I can take my kids to nursery / school twice a week, so my misses can start her shifts earlier. I can effectively manage my own time, as long as I put my hours in. My office where I am based out of is only 5 miles away from home too, so travelling is at a minimum too.

 

Now I am by no means on terrible money, I earn a decent living but I wouldn't consider moving anywhere for an extra £3k a year. That extra £3k would pretty much cover the extra day at nursery a week. I know that because I too fork out a fortune for nursery for 2 days a week...it's a joke how much it costs.

 

I've now learnt that staying where I am currently, isn't me showing a lack of ambition or 'playing it safe' it's me thinking of my family and flexibility. I wouldn't give up the time I have with the kids. As time goes on and my youngest starts going to school, I'll seriously consider my options. That's not to say I'd not look or consider anything in the interim but it would have to be something that works for me.

 

You are in a lucky position. You are currently employed so the balls in your court. You could speak to you potential employer and explain your current situation and they could accommodate for you. If they don't then you could walk away. You could also tell your current employer about your ambitions (and the job offer if you choose) and see what they have to say. The latter is something I am considering.

Either way good luck.

[Md9]

I think it would make sense to stay if they are flexible with your hours and you are happy there. I started my new job over a year ago told them I could only do 8.30 / 5 because my wife goes to work once I get home because of the kids. Then because we got busy the people I work with try to make you feel bad because they have to stay and I can’t but then there is days where you stay half hour late or start and hour and half early to help out it is sort of expected now which again I said I could not do. Everything is a rush when I get home between wife leaving kids eating and going bed. Your work seem like a good place to work and although they may not have the same future benefits now they may do in the future. If your happy and the people are good then I’d be all for staying ?

[fuchsntf]

On 19/11/2018 at 21:05, Fox in the North said:

Currently I have a fairly decent job as an account manager at an insurance broker which specialises in social clubs. I have been at the broker for just over 3 and a half years. They have been good to me. They have trained me up from scratch and given me reaosnable

increases. Only just recently they agreed to consolidate my hours and change my hours from Monday-Friday 9-5 to Tuesday-Friday 8-5/5:30 as I am fosterering my nephew (baby boy 9 months old) and me and my partner cannot afford the extra childcare costs (can just about afford 2 days a week). Throughout the entire process this year (which has been quite stressful for me and my family), work have been very supportive.

 

I have recently received a job offer from another broker. I was not looking for work but still received a message from the company on LinkedIn. Out of curiosity I accepted an interview to see what the job was all about. The role is still an account manager role but covers a wider range of businesses with future development potential and they have offered  continued education course. The wage is higher by about £3,000 but they are not as flexible with working hours and so would have to pay for an extra day of childcare. An annual bonus of £500 to £2,000 is also provided.

 

I’m incredibly torn between a job that I am

comfortable with and an interesting different role that probably has more potential in the long run. I am also torn as my current work have done a lot to help me with my personal situation. I’m not unhappy with my current role but the new offer is tempting.  I am not sure if I stay in my current role that I’ll be able to progress and if I’ll start to get bored from operating in a niche business. 

 

Has anyone experienced anything similar? Would be very grateful for any advice as I am struggling to see a clear winner for pro’s and cons. Am I being to kind about my current work? 

hey !!!     after all this advice, please tell,your foxestalk family.... What are you going to do...and if you can, why???

 

then in 8yrs, ask your kid to send us an update,if he/she thought it was a good idea..

[Fox in the North]

Thanks for all the advice, I’m really grateful for it. As I wasn’t originally looking to leave it’s been hard to figure out what my priorities are. I cannot decide if I want to savour the flexibility that I’ve been so lucky to be provided with or take up a new challenge that could lead on to bigger and better things. Fortunately I have until early this week coming to decide.   

 

Bit more background. I’ve just turned 26 and been with my partner for 8 years (we met in our first year at university). We bought our first house this time last year and before fostering my nephew, we were starting to consider trying for a baby. 

 

I have spoken to my current employer about the offer. They understand why it has turned my head a bit. It’s a job that offers more progression than they can. The only way I could progress at my current work is to be promoted to an account exec, but the role is not available, nor do I fancy travelling up and down the country to sports and social clubs (it seems quite exhausting and would take me away from my family even more). Unfortunately my boss doesn’t think it’s wise to go to the head boss about a pay rise as it would sour the good will and I would agree with that. 

 

Im conscious that I’ve been doing the same thing for a couple of years and it could start to become monotonous. The part of the business I deal with is steady but could be a bit rocky in a year or two. I deal with a book of 5/6 insurers that insure our clubs. They come and go throughout the years, but we are losing a couple of the insurers we deal with due to poor performance (claims paid out higher than profit), and I cannot see who is viable to replace them. It’s not my job but the scheme has run on for some time and the ideal insurers we look to do business with are getting fewer and farer between. I don’t want to bury my head in the sand  and think things will just work out, but equally I’m not sure I want to risk leaving a currently comfortable and enjoyable workplace for an unknown quantity.

 

The new workplace offers insuring a variety of businesses, involving a wider range of premiums and platforms to negotiate with insurers. It is also a feeder team for a bigger corporate division at a multinational level. They have 2 open positions for this role, one they are looking to fill now, but one that could be filled around Feb/March next year (this seems more ideal for me).

 

Ultimately as I’m so conflicted and since the salary difference is negligible (possibly even worse considering expenses like childcare in the short term), I’m probably going to stay where I am. I just can’t help but have a feeling that I would enjoy a new experience/challenge and don’t want to regret a missed opportunity.

[rachhere]

10 hours ago, Fox in the North said:

Thanks for all the advice, I’m really grateful for it. As I wasn’t originally looking to leave it’s been hard to figure out what my priorities are. I cannot decide if I want to savour the flexibility that I’ve been so lucky to be provided with or take up a new challenge that could lead on to bigger and better things. Fortunately I have until early this week coming to decide.   

 

Bit more background. I’ve just turned 26 and been with my partner for 8 years (we met in our first year at university). We bought our first house this time last year and before fostering my nephew, we were starting to consider trying for a baby. 

 

I have spoken to my current employer about the offer. They understand why it has turned my head a bit. It’s a job that offers more progression than they can. The only way I could progress at my current work is to be promoted to an account exec, but the role is not available, nor do I fancy travelling up and down the country to sports and social clubs (it seems quite exhausting and would take me away from my family even more). Unfortunately my boss doesn’t think it’s wise to go to the head boss about a pay rise as it would sour the good will and I would agree with that. 

 

Im conscious that I’ve been doing the same thing for a couple of years and it could start to become monotonous. The part of the business I deal with is steady but could be a bit rocky in a year or two. I deal with a book of 5/6 insurers that insure our clubs. They come and go throughout the years, but we are losing a couple of the insurers we deal with due to poor performance (claims paid out higher than profit), and I cannot see who is viable to replace them. It’s not my job but the scheme has run on for some time and the ideal insurers we look to do business with are getting fewer and farer between. I don’t want to bury my head in the sand  and think things will just work out, but equally I’m not sure I want to risk leaving a currently comfortable and enjoyable workplace for an unknown quantity.

 

The new workplace offers insuring a variety of businesses, involving a wider range of premiums and platforms to negotiate with insurers. It is also a feeder team for a bigger corporate division at a multinational level. They have 2 open positions for this role, one they are looking to fill now, but one that could be filled around Feb/March next year (this seems more ideal for me).

 

Ultimately as I’m so conflicted and since the salary difference is negligible (possibly even worse considering expenses like childcare in the short term), I’m probably going to stay where I am. I just can’t help but have a feeling that I would enjoy a new experience/challenge and don’t want to regret a missed opportunity.

I would be honest with the new place and explain the reasons why you are likely to turn them down and see what they come back with. What does your partner think?

 

If it were just about career progression, from what you have said I think it would be a no brainer to take on the new role, but you do have to think about what is best for your whole family (as you have been doing). 

[Jattdogg]

You are young at 26 and have many years to move to another company/position. Don't fret about missed opportunities. You have just received one and you weren't even looking. When you start to look and get serious about change doors will open for you. Im in my upper 30s and opportunities are always around for me.

 

Yes, employers love to see progression but job hopping is also a bad sign too. Can show you are not committed  or perhaps not a good employee. Could also show you are ambitious  but companies also dont want to invest in training if you leave after 1 to 2 years etc.

 

Im currently in a situation for the past 2.5 years where ive needed flexible hours to handle my kids daycare needs. Company has been super supportive and i appreciate it very much. Ive had other offers but like you for the extra cash and change/increase in daycare costs wouldn't make it worthwhile. Ive also been injured and they were fantastic with me while i was off for  10 weeks over the course of the year (injury and surgery recovery).

 

Yes, you should never be scared to move on even if the big unknown means you could be walking away from a comfy gig to a nightmare and then no job 3 months later. If you dont take risks you wont ever know. I do agree with some on here about that but the only caveat for that is when children are involved. If you were single my advice would be to leave. Given your situation I'd say stay until you know you can leave.

 

Of course only you know what's best for you and the family. 

 

Either way you've got your head screwed on right (other than posting on this forum) and if i were an employer looking to hire someone in your field i would be impressed with your dedication to family needs and career progression. 

 

 

[VLC86]

13 hours ago, Fox in the North said:

Thanks for all the advice, I’m really grateful for it. As I wasn’t originally looking to leave it’s been hard to figure out what my priorities are. I cannot decide if I want to savour the flexibility that I’ve been so lucky to be provided with or take up a new challenge that could lead on to bigger and better things. Fortunately I have until early this week coming to decide.   

 

Bit more background. I’ve just turned 26 and been with my partner for 8 years (we met in our first year at university). We bought our first house this time last year and before fostering my nephew, we were starting to consider trying for a baby. 

 

I have spoken to my current employer about the offer. They understand why it has turned my head a bit. It’s a job that offers more progression than they can. The only way I could progress at my current work is to be promoted to an account exec, but the role is not available, nor do I fancy travelling up and down the country to sports and social clubs (it seems quite exhausting and would take me away from my family even more). Unfortunately my boss doesn’t think it’s wise to go to the head boss about a pay rise as it would sour the good will and I would agree with that. 

 

Im conscious that I’ve been doing the same thing for a couple of years and it could start to become monotonous. The part of the business I deal with is steady but could be a bit rocky in a year or two. I deal with a book of 5/6 insurers that insure our clubs. They come and go throughout the years, but we are losing a couple of the insurers we deal with due to poor performance (claims paid out higher than profit), and I cannot see who is viable to replace them. It’s not my job but the scheme has run on for some time and the ideal insurers we look to do business with are getting fewer and farer between. I don’t want to bury my head in the sand  and think things will just work out, but equally I’m not sure I want to risk leaving a currently comfortable and enjoyable workplace for an unknown quantity.

 

The new workplace offers insuring a variety of businesses, involving a wider range of premiums and platforms to negotiate with insurers. It is also a feeder team for a bigger corporate division at a multinational level. They have 2 open positions for this role, one they are looking to fill now, but one that could be filled around Feb/March next year (this seems more ideal for me).

 

Ultimately as I’m so conflicted and since the salary difference is negligible (possibly even worse considering expenses like childcare in the short term), I’m probably going to stay where I am. I just can’t help but have a feeling that I would enjoy a new experience/challenge and don’t want to regret a missed opportunity.

The way I tend to view decisions like this is that after weighing all of this up and you are still undecided, Is it that great an offer in the first place?

[Captain...]

15 hours ago, Fox in the North said:

Thanks for all the advice, I’m really grateful for it. As I wasn’t originally looking to leave it’s been hard to figure out what my priorities are. I cannot decide if I want to savour the flexibility that I’ve been so lucky to be provided with or take up a new challenge that could lead on to bigger and better things. Fortunately I have until early this week coming to decide.   

 

Bit more background. I’ve just turned 26 and been with my partner for 8 years (we met in our first year at university). We bought our first house this time last year and before fostering my nephew, we were starting to consider trying for a baby. 

 

I have spoken to my current employer about the offer. They understand why it has turned my head a bit. It’s a job that offers more progression than they can. The only way I could progress at my current work is to be promoted to an account exec, but the role is not available, nor do I fancy travelling up and down the country to sports and social clubs (it seems quite exhausting and would take me away from my family even more). Unfortunately my boss doesn’t think it’s wise to go to the head boss about a pay rise as it would sour the good will and I would agree with that. 

 

Im conscious that I’ve been doing the same thing for a couple of years and it could start to become monotonous. The part of the business I deal with is steady but could be a bit rocky in a year or two. I deal with a book of 5/6 insurers that insure our clubs. They come and go throughout the years, but we are losing a couple of the insurers we deal with due to poor performance (claims paid out higher than profit), and I cannot see who is viable to replace them. It’s not my job but the scheme has run on for some time and the ideal insurers we look to do business with are getting fewer and farer between. I don’t want to bury my head in the sand  and think things will just work out, but equally I’m not sure I want to risk leaving a currently comfortable and enjoyable workplace for an unknown quantity.

 

The new workplace offers insuring a variety of businesses, involving a wider range of premiums and platforms to negotiate with insurers. It is also a feeder team for a bigger corporate division at a multinational level. They have 2 open positions for this role, one they are looking to fill now, but one that could be filled around Feb/March next year (this seems more ideal for me).

 

Ultimately as I’m so conflicted and since the salary difference is negligible (possibly even worse considering expenses like childcare in the short term), I’m probably going to stay where I am. I just can’t help but have a feeling that I would enjoy a new experience/challenge and don’t want to regret a missed opportunity.

If you're adopting a 9 month old then you will be craving something monotonous in your work life as your home life will be the opposite.

 

26 is still quite young and if you have the opportunity now you will get plenty more. Even if you only give it another 6 months in the current place, you are obviously capable of moving on to better things and you will. It is just up to you when. If you explain to the potential new employers that you are only turning the job down due to the changes in your personal life and otherwise you would want to work for them, they will probably get in touch during the next recruitment drive.

 

 

[TiffToff88]

I'm sorry to hijack this thread, but I'm currently having a bit of a dilemma myself at work.

 

I've been in my current job since the start of September, but over the last 2 weeks things have gone very quiet and I've had literally nothing to do. My line manager has given me no work but kept himself very busy. I'm still at the early stages of my time with the company so I'm still learning what's what. But it seems like we're either too busy for anyone to take the time to show me what to do or barely have any work on so they're keeping everyone else busy rather than giving me any of the work.

 

I'm torn on whether to just carry on as things are and be bored out of my mind getting paid to do bugger all (which I feel guilty about taking money for nothing) or risk going above the managers head and speaking to the Directors. The downside to that would be them saying something along the lines of not needing me any more.

 

I was unemployed for 3 months before getting this job after my last company closed their UK office and don't want to be unemployed again as money is already tight and I would definitely end up not being able to keep up mortgage payments and other bills.

 

Whats the best course of action?