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Aus Fox

Premier League Thread 2019/20

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On 08/10/2019 at 13:13, pmcla26 said:

I know that there is some shite in the media these days, but this just about trumps it. 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-hamza-choudhurys-shocking-tackle-17048177.amp 

Every time I warm even slightly to the idea of Liverpool winning the Prem, something like the abuse of Choudhury pops up to remind me what a vile bunch they actually are.

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18 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

oh yeah deffo, losing to palace at home, to newcastle, not winning an away game for 8 months or whatever are much more sackable offences than losing to this liverpool team, who will beat every single team (most of them twice) this season. 

 

but it just seems to be a pattern, especially with united. i guess it didn’t help moyes or jose that both got completely embarrassed by liverpool (and moyes by city as well a week or so later or whatever it was), not just beaten. liverpool had like 40 shots against mourinho’s united didn’t they, something outrageous like every outfield player and all three subs had a shot in the 90 mins. 

 

i guess when you’re a dead man walking you just need something to push you that final bit further. next weekend should be it, unfortunately. 

 

This is an interesting(ish) article going through Manu's signing since 2013.

 

    https://www.football365.com/news/man-utd-wasted-two-thirds-of-840m-spent-since-fergie

 

I'd argue that even the 'hits' really just amount to 'did what they were bloody well paid to do'. Trying to think of the last player who came to Man U and left with an enhanced (as opposed to simply 'upheld') reputation. 

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Just now, turtmcfly said:

 

This is an interesting(ish) article going through Manu's signing since 2013.

 

    https://www.football365.com/news/man-utd-wasted-two-thirds-of-840m-spent-since-fergie

 

I'd argue that even the 'hits' really just amount to 'did what they were bloody well paid to do'. Trying to think of the last player who came to Man U and left with an enhanced (as opposed to simply 'upheld') reputation. 

Can’t think of a player since Ronaldo if I’m honest.

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57 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

Can’t think of a player since Ronaldo if I’m honest.

Thats not a unique thing though because normally if youre a player that reaches the level of man utd youve reached the top of the food chain.

 

Theres nowhere further (or wasnt) to go except maybe real and barca.

 

The only way you left man utd at your "peak" was if you were not good enough for that level.

 

Thats probably something thats changing now though admittedly

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4 hours ago, Donk said:

Thats not a unique thing though because normally if youre a player that reaches the level of man utd youve reached the top of the food chain.

 

Theres nowhere further (or wasnt) to go except maybe real and barca.

 

The only way you left man utd at your "peak" was if you were not good enough for that level.

 

Thats probably something thats changing now though admittedly

Or unless Fergie thought you a disruptive influence.

 

Can you imagine Pogba still being there if Fergie was still in charge?

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5 hours ago, Donk said:

Thats not a unique thing though because normally if youre a player that reaches the level of man utd youve reached the top of the food chain.

 

Theres nowhere further (or wasnt) to go except maybe real and barca.

 

The only way you left man utd at your "peak" was if you were not good enough for that level.

 

Thats probably something thats changing now though admittedly

 

The point I'm making is that while it is indeed changing, it started to change quite a while ago.

 

For a 'top of the food chain' club, they have bought precious few 'top of the food chain' players, and the ones they have brought in e.g. Pogba (or maybe that should be i.e. - struggling to think of another recent one) they seem to have ruined.

 

At the same time none of their players who were initially below that level (either purchased or brought up through their acadamy) have improved to anywhere near it. They all seem to be either shit from day one, or shit after looking good for a handful of games. Let's see what happens to Daniel James.

 

In terms of player development, they're a solid lead albatross. For a player with half a brain this surely must be a factor in whether to go there, regardless of the size of the club and it's history.

 

 

 

Edited by turtmcfly
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44 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

 

The point I'm making is that while it is indeed changing, it started to change quite a while ago.

 

For a 'top of the food chain' club, they have bought precious few 'top of the food chain' players, and the ones they have brought in e.g. Pogba (or maybe that should be i.e. - struggling to think of another recent one) they seem to have ruined.

 

At the same time none of their players who were initially below that level (either purchased or brought up through their acadamy) have improved to anywhere near it. They all seem to be either shit from day one, or shit after looking good for a handful of games. Let's see what happens to Daniel James.

 

In terms of player development, they're a solid lead albatross. For a player with half a brain this surely must be a factor in whether to go their, regardless of the size of the club and it's history.

 

The developing of players one is a strange one.

 

I look at two players in particular in Dalot and Martial and i think both of them could be serious talents and yet, somehow it just doesnt happen.

 

Youd think by now given the pace, the technique he has, rashford would be a 15-20 goal a season man easily. He isnt.

 

The other players theyve promoted from the youth set up, they just seem to be there purely to appease people and gain patience.

 

McTominay and Perreira for example. Ive never watched a game and thought either of them really stood out as to why they were in the side. What does McTominay offer that gives him a free ride?

 

 

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18 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Read some of the transcript of the interview. The interviewer was an arsehole, incredibly disrespectful to Mustafi. We complain about the media in the country, and the non sports side are *****, but you'd never get a sports journalist talk to professional sportsman like the Marca guy did.

 

Marca are ****ing horrific tbqh. 

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19 minutes ago, Donk said:

The developing of players one is a strange one.

 

I look at two players in particular in Dalot and Martial and i think both of them could be serious talents and yet, somehow it just doesnt happen.

 

Youd think by now given the pace, the technique he has, rashford would be a 15-20 goal a season man easily. He isnt.

 

The other players theyve promoted from the youth set up, they just seem to be there purely to appease people and gain patience.

 

McTominay and Perreira for example. Ive never watched a game and thought either of them really stood out as to why they were in the side. What does McTominay offer that gives him a free ride?

 

 

 

Ultimately, I'm saying 'somehow' -> 'Man United'. It's becoming the Prem equivalent of going to China.

 

I'd love to have Rashford here. As you say he's got the attributes, but it seems he's be bludgeoned by the whole Manu drama/doom trip. He looks mentally shot.

 

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I think McTominay's pretty decent. Not least because unlike nearly all his teammates, he doesn't go hiding. But he's also not as bad a footballer as people make out.

 

Perreira I'm not going to argue about...

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23 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

 

Ultimately, I'm saying 'somehow' -> 'Man United'. It's becoming the Prem equivalent of going to China.

 

I'd love to have Rashford here. As you say he's got the attributes, but it seems he's be bludgeoned by the whole Manu drama/doom trip. He looks mentally shot.

 

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I think McTominay's pretty decent. Not least because unlike nearly all his teammates, he doesn't go hiding. But he's also not as bad a footballer as people make out.

 

Perreira I'm not going to argue about...

We could make Rashford Vardy type 2. Hes absolutely got the "Vardy" attributes of pace, acceleration, being able to play the high press.

 

He would be versatile too. Up front, playing on the left or right as a wide forward.

 

He just needs a killer instinct and work on his movement.

 

He could get 20 for Leicester ive got no doubt.

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8 minutes ago, Donk said:

We could make Rashford Vardy type 2. Hes absolutely got the "Vardy" attributes of pace, acceleration, being able to play the high press.

 

He would be versatile too. Up front, playing on the left or right as a wide forward.

 

He just needs a killer instinct and work on his movement.

 

He could get 20 for Leicester ive got no doubt.

 

Has he got what I believe Nietzsche (were he alive today) would describe as 'will to rustle'?

 

I know that sounds like a joke, but it seems to me that this post-goal actions are those of a player with an unquenchable desire to always be proving another batch of doubters wrong. 

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6 hours ago, Donk said:

Thats not a unique thing though because normally if youre a player that reaches the level of man utd youve reached the top of the food chain.

 

Theres nowhere further (or wasnt) to go except maybe real and barca.

 

The only way you left man utd at your "peak" was if you were not good enough for that level.

 

Thats probably something thats changing now though admittedly

I would disagree with this.  I can think of plenty of players off the top of my head from the SAF era whose reputations were enhanced after joining United:

 

Bruce, Irwin, Pallister, Ferdinand, Cantona, Keane, Robson, Rooney, Ince, Ronaldo, Djemba Djemba...

 

(Can anyone spot the deliberate mistake?)

 

 

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1 hour ago, turtmcfly said:

 

Has he got what I believe Nietzsche (were he alive today) would describe as 'will to rustle'?

 

I know that sounds like a joke, but it seems to me that this post-goal actions are those of a player with an unquenchable desire to always be proving another batch of doubters wrong. 

I bet that’s the first time Nietzsche has been mentioned in a football forum.

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13 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

 

https://sportsocratic.com/2017/07/05/nietzsche-becoming-great-athlete/

 

Scheisse! Er war auch ein Fußballspieler

 

 

 

 

I learn something new every day here lol

 

Most of my knowledge of learned philosophers comes from the Python song.

Edited by WigstonWanderer
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18 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

I learn something new every day here lol

 

Most of my knowledge of learned philosophers comes from the Python song.

There is a link between football and philosophy.  Wasn't Albert Camus a pro goalkeeper?  And the pope (JPII). 

 

I could be wrong.

 

And then there's Socrates of course... 
 

(edit - Curses.  Beaten to it)

Edited by murphy
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25 minutes ago, murphy said:

There is a link between football and philosophy.  Wasn't Albert Camus a pro goalkeeper?  And the pope (JPII). 

 

I could be wrong.

 

And then there's Socrates of course... 
 

(edit - Curses.  Beaten to it)

 

Albert Camus was never the Pope.

 

Can't comment as to whether he ever ate two jacket potatoes.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, murphy said:

I would disagree with this.  I can think of plenty of players off the top of my head from the SAF era whose reputations were enhanced after joining United:

 

Bruce, Irwin, Pallister, Ferdinand, Cantona, Keane, Robson, Rooney, Ince, Ronaldo, Djemba Djemba...

 

(Can anyone spot the deliberate mistake?)

 

 

The point was that players join man utd and their reputation increases, but by the time they leave itll in most cases because theyre past their best or theyve left under difficult circumstances.

 

Ronaldo is the only one from the list who left and then was even better.

 

Yes their reputations increase because they peak whilst at man utd.

 

But by the time they actually leave like Rooney, Ferdinand, Keane they are carthorses.

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Mourihno linked with Everton, be a good fit I think. Jose has gone through a rough spell over the last few years and probably needs a good job at a club with less expectations but still ambitious. Where I think Mourhino in the past has done best, like what he done FC Porto, Chelsea (first time round) and Inter. He really could build a good force at Everton, but will he manage up north again. He didn't half moan to help about having to travelling up to Manchester week in, week out. 

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16 minutes ago, Leicesterpool said:

Mourihno linked with Everton, be a good fit I think. Jose has gone through a rough spell over the last few years and probably needs a good job at a club with less expectations but still ambitious. Where I think Mourhino in the past has done best, like what he done FC Porto, Chelsea (first time round) and Inter. He really could build a good force at Everton, but will he manage up north again. He didn't half moan to help about having to travelling up to Manchester week in, week out. 

Interesting that Everton need to be better at the back and Jose would sort that...... however, if he takes that post then he’s admitting he can’t get a big job. 

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