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Premier League Thread 2019/20

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32 minutes ago, Donk said:

The "immense revenue" they are using to pay loans hasnt stopped them backing all their managers with huge funds.

 

The "clueless" ed woodward appointed the managers the majority of people and fans wanted at those times.

 

I can point to decisions like giving mourinho a big contract then sacking him as silly in hindsight but most people wanted mourinho out anyway the situation was too far gone, no?

 

Its easy to scapegoat easy targets but im not sure theyre as big an issue as youre making out personally

 

The total interest paid has gone past 800 million. This is more than the original sum they borrowed in the first place. Add to that the c. 60 million in dividends taken out.

 

Both interest/divis are now around c. 20 million a year each, so it won't be that long before interest/divis have taken 1 billion from the business, none of which benefits the club one iota.

 

Perhaps you admire such financial chicanery, but it's hard to argue their tenure hasn't had a massively detrimental effect on the club. You have a problem with the Glazers being called a 'disease', but I'm not sure what else you could call something so far removed from a cure.

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8 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I would straight up laugh myself silly if they went down and would revel in their downfall yeah totally. 

 

Otherwise? Eh, a league without them in it would be less appealing. 

 

I don't want Leicester to qualify by default, I want Leicester to qualify because we've beaten the biggest clubs at their best and really earned their place. 

 

I also don't think it reflects on the league being super strong so much as just reflects very badly on the sport as a wider whole that we're so vulnerable to having sporting institutions utterly destroyed by greedy, incompetent billionaires buying clubs as a vanity project. 

 

Really, we shouldn't be any happier to see United struggle with bad ownership than we are Newcastle or Blackpool or Darlington or Oadby. 

I think you definitely have a point about it being sad to see any club run into the ground, but in a case like Manchester United, I just can't see past the funny side.

 

I think it's mainly because of all the glory grabbers and fairweather fans from all over the world who thought they found a way to follow a club and never experience the lows. I'd love for them to find out what it really means to be a fan. Sometimes, bad stuff happens and it's not much fun. That's what makes the good times worthwhile.

 

I know it's not likely, but seeing Man Utd being relegated, for me, would be joyous.

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18 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

I'll address each point in turn. 

 

Firstly, Man Utd could conceivably be backing their managers with a lot more funds (their yearly revenue is positively gargantuan), so their reticence to, for example, buy Alderweireld for Mourinho 2 summers ago, is actually a sign of them not backing their managers fully despite absolutely having the capacity to do so. 

 

Ed Woodward doing what the fans "want" is the problem, how good is the average fan at running a football club? If you put me in charge of Leicester I'd probably screw up. A lot of those transfers that have been supported strongly by fans (e.g. gazumping Man City for Sanchez and Fred, and overpaying for both) were flawed to begin with. 

 

And Mourinho had to be sacked, yes, but only because of a situation the board created.  They knew what they were getting with Mourinho - a manager who got results, if you bought him the players he wanted. And it worked out for the first two seasons, but then they idiotically cut his funding because they wanted to keep even more money for themselves. He threw a tantrum and got the hell out of dodge, collecting his nice severance pay.

 

If you're going to appoint a manager like Mourinho, you have to be prepared to follow through with him.  And following through has been Woodwards problem this whole time. Sell your main goalscorer? Don't follow through with it. Keep Pogba to build a team around him? Don't follow-up on it. Etc etc.

Almost everything you say is with hindsight. 

 

No manager gets absolutely everything they want. To suggest man utd havent spent enough when theyve given managers about three quarters of a billion is crazy.

 

Why would the decision to sell Lukaku be the Glazers or Ed Wodwards fault? Thats solskjaers fault? 

 

Saying that the decisions were to appease the fans is a bit of a cop out as each manager was the obvious choice at the time.

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15 minutes ago, Donk said:

Almost everything you say is with hindsight. 

 

No manager gets absolutely everything they want. To suggest man utd havent spent enough when theyve given managers about three quarters of a billion is crazy.

 

Why would the decision to sell Lukaku be the Glazers or Ed Wodwards fault? Thats solskjaers fault? 

 

Saying that the decisions were to appease the fans is a bit of a cop out as each manager was the obvious choice at the time.

Solskjaer clearly wanted a replacement, that's why United were after ben Yedder.

 

If every manager, from the best to the worst, are failing at a club, clearly there is a systemic problem going on.

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Remember the last time Utd went down - going to Old Trafford and winning (all I recall is Stringy scoring for us & Stepney banging a pen past Shilts).

From memory Denis Law (playing for Man City) relegated them on the final day of the season with a back-heel at Maine Rd and then walked off the pitch.

Then, as now, we were well above them with great players (Weller, Worthington) and their 'demise' caused great hilarity.

But within a couple of years normal service was resumed - they came straight back up, won the cup soon after - re-established themselves.

We got rid of Bloomfield, appointed McLintock, and sank like a bloody brick.

What I'm saying is football is cyclical and clubs like Man Utd don't suffer for long. Whereas, sooner or later, we do.

Nice while it lasts though, innit?

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2 hours ago, That_Dude said:

I don't think they will either but only because their board will pull the plug at some point. Here's his record since he was permanently appointed:

 

Games: 17

W: 5

D: 4

L: 8

GF: 16

GA: 24

 

That's relegation form.

That's bad, but it's not relegation form as it gives them about 45 points over a 38 game season.

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2 hours ago, Donk said:

Everybody blames the Glazers at Man Utd and they give almost unlimited funds to be spent.

 

Then everyone blames Ed Woodward yet he brought in the managers at the time everyone wanted like Van Gaal and Mourinho. Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho all had proven records too.

 

Then people blame the managers themselves like Van Gaal for a slow ponderous buildup game, Mourinho for being overly negative, and Solskjaer for having no plan. Yet when theyre gone they either dont improve or get even worse.

 

I just dont know where you put the blame. I dont think any of their "scapegoats" are the real issues.... its just a bunch of players who should clearly be better than they are underperforming and i think hiding behind all the scapegoats as an excuse why they cant be bothered.

 

Pogba, Matic, Mata, Maguire, Lindelof, wan bissaka, De Gea, Fred, Rashford..... theyve all got bags of experience at the top levels of european football and are all good players.

 

Even Fred is a more than adequate player. Hes not paul scholes or roy keane but hes been absolutely destroyed by man utd just the same way sanchez was, shaw was (injury admittedly too).

 

So i have no idea how you diagnose their issues at all.

One word - Wellens. 

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23 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

Solskjaer clearly wanted a replacement, that's why United were after ben Yedder.

 

If every manager, from the best to the worst, are failing at a club, clearly there is a systemic problem going on.

Should have kept Lukaku?

 

How can it be Woodwards fault Solskjaer wanted to sell his main striker and then be his fault another club didnt want to sell theirs to man utd

 

You say theres a "systemic problem" but theres nothing you can actually point at because the managers ARE getting basically everything they want.

 

Thats why i dont know what the issue is and i suspect the dressing room need to really look at themselves

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United just don't score or create enough sustainable chances in open play. 3 shots on target against a poor Newcastle team, 0 against AZ and they struggled to create anything meaningful against Arsenal. They won't go down because they'll sack Solskjaer if they're in any danger and throw a load of money at Hiddink type manager to keep them up. What I can see happening though is them finishing in lower mid table.

 

There aren't enough goals in their squad and that's compounded by having the Norwegian Puel in charge, they're remarkably similar now that I think about it. Can only create good chances from counters and they're both poor at coaching sides to build attacks. Too slow and too square.

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23 minutes ago, Donk said:

Should have kept Lukaku?

 

How can it be Woodwards fault Solskjaer wanted to sell his main striker and then be his fault another club didnt want to sell theirs to man utd

 

You say theres a "systemic problem" but theres nothing you can actually point at because the managers ARE getting basically everything they want.

 

Thats why i dont know what the issue is and i suspect the dressing room need to really look at themselves

If the dressing room is the problem, and has been all along, it should absolutely not take this many managers for Woodward to figure it out. 

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18 minutes ago, Stadt said:

United just don't score or create enough sustainable chances in open play. 3 shots on target against a poor Newcastle team, 0 against AZ and they struggled to create anything meaningful against Arsenal. They won't go down because they'll sack Solskjaer if they're in any danger and throw a load of money at Hiddink type manager to keep them up. What I can see happening though is them finishing in lower mid table.

 

There aren't enough goals in their squad and that's compounded by having the Norwegian Puel in charge, they're remarkably similar now that I think about it. Can only create good chances from counters and they're both poor at coaching sides to build attacks. Too slow and too square.

Puel is light-years ahead of the Hobbit be it tactically, pedigree, signings or player improvement. It's an insult to put them in the same sentence. 

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27 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

If the dressing room is the problem, and has been all along, it should absolutely not take this many managers for Woodward to figure it out. 

Woodward. Woodward. Woodward.

 

Do you want Woodward to manage the team? Is there anything you can point to that isnt Woodward's fault? Like its Woodwards fault Mourinho was throwing everyone under the bus long before he was sacked? It was Woodward's fault Rashford doesnt understand how to play as a striker?

 

Its like Rudkin here....blame him for absolutely everything when we are underachieving yet when things improve, it all goes quiet and hes no longer an issue?

 

This conversation is going nowhere so ill leave it at that and we can agree to disagree.

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2 hours ago, Nicolo Barella said:

The chances of Spurs getting relegated are so low, I will get naked, run through several streets naked with my undies on my head, and post the film onto this site if they get relegated. And you can save this post

Post saved!

 

And I'm sure there are many on here looking forward to seeing that spectacular view!.................but don't bank on me flying back for the occasion! 

 

But just the thought of Spuds being relegated.....You know, I might just join you!

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Just now, ThaiFox said:

Post saved!

 

And I'm sure there are many on here looking forward to seeing that spectacular view!.................but don't bank on me flying back for the occasion! 

 

But just the thought of Spuds being relegated.....You know, I might just join you!

Don`t worry, pretty sure such an event would be on the BBC World Service :thumbup:

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40 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

If the dressing room is the problem, and has been all along, it should absolutely not take this many managers for Woodward to figure it out. 

Obviously the dressing room isnt the ONLY problem but once you have earned scapegoat status theres nothing Woodward or the glazers can do, despite bankrolling the team with hundreds of millions and employing the best managers at the time everyone wants.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Donk said:

Should have kept Lukaku?

 

How can it be Woodwards fault Solskjaer wanted to sell his main striker and then be his fault another club didnt want to sell theirs to man utd

 

You say theres a "systemic problem" but theres nothing you can actually point at because the managers ARE getting basically everything they want.

 

Thats why i dont know what the issue is and i suspect the dressing room need to really look at themselves

Suspect its half a dozen of one, half a dozen of the other, but from the Utd point of view, its almost like they have gone so far down the rabbit hole, that they cannot get out.

 

If it were me:

  • Pogba - Shoot or Sell
  • J-LINGZ - Shoot or Sell
  • Phil Jones - Shoot or Sell
  • Ashley Young - Shoot or Sell
  • Fred - Find the receipt
  • Matic - Shoot
  • Shaw - Tell him to man the **** up

 

Utd have some good players but too many that believe they are great.

 

And get a DOF - like tomorrow

 

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30 minutes ago, ThaiFox said:

Post saved!

 

And I'm sure there are many on here looking forward to seeing that spectacular view!.................but don't bank on me flying back for the occasion! 

 

But just the thought of Spuds being relegated.....You know, I might just join you!

Count me in too!! 

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5 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

I know that there is some shite in the media these days, but this just about trumps it. 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-hamza-choudhurys-shocking-tackle-17048177.amp 

 

Seems like every former player who played for Liverpool in the 1970s & 1980s are in the media. **** me, there are so many of them. On top of that there are so many blue ticks on Twitter who support Liverpool. These guys are over represented in the football media.

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9 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Man Utd are currently 80/1 to go down on Bet365 if anyone fancies it.

Does this mean they are 62 x more likely to go down then us win the league at 5000/1? Do those numbers work? I don’t know but United/spurs  are a great to watch at the moment 

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