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Premier League Thread 2019/20

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5 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

No one has railed against the idea of a false “Big 6” this season more than me.  But it’s just as absurd to say ManU is in danger of relegation.  They’re awful by their standards, but consider the personnel on the bottom-feeder sides - there’s just no way in hell.  They’re good for anywhere from about 8th-12th, most likely.  It’s a nice fantasy to picture them in a relegation scrap but it ain’t happening.

West Ham were relegated with a squad full of big names. Leeds went down with a good squad on paper. This Man Utd side isn't as good as either of them. It could happen.

 

If they get sucked into a relegation dogfight, are those young players the sort you'd want to drag you out of it? There's nothing they can do about the squad until January, and even then they will struggle. Anyone they think is good enough will have much better options than signing up for a scrap to avoid the 2nd tier next season. Everyone will know they are absolutely desperate and will ask silly money.

 

I don't think it's quite as ridiculous as you think. I doubt it will happen this season, but I do think it is a real possibility.

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12 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

No one has railed against the idea of a false “Big 6” this season more than me.  But it’s just as absurd to say ManU is in danger of relegation.  They’re awful by their standards, but consider the personnel on the bottom-feeder sides - there’s just no way in hell.  They’re good for anywhere from about 8th-12th, most likely.  It’s a nice fantasy to picture them in a relegation scrap but it ain’t happening.

.............and we'rd done.

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They're honestly awful by anyone's standards. Certainly at the moment. I'll grant you one or two have to come back from injury. 

 

But the teams they put out against Arsenal and Newcastle quite possibly wouldn't get out of the championship. 

 

Where do you think the bags of quality are there? Maguire went down with Hull, Rashford's top goal scoring season is 13 in all competitions, Daniel James looked okay in the championship last year and is about their most threatening forward. 

 

Pereira, Fred and Dalot wouldn't get in Norwich's team, Mata is finished at the top level and Tahith ****ing Chong off the bench to win matches who'd be on loan at Oldham with Mason Greenwood if Ole wasn't so determined to recreate the class of 92.

 

Unfortunately for Ole, you can't just pick a handful of random kids from your academy and Jimmy Grimble them in to stars just by wishing it and thinking like that is hugely disrespectful to the quality of his former team mates. 

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Yes, “bags of quality”, exactly what I said...:whistle:

 

This team that would struggle to get out of the championship has 9 points, a positive GD and sits in 12th. Meanwhile there are 5 sides with a GD of at least -7.  This is about what they are - mid-table.  As others have noted they’re already dealing with significant injury issues, and will go into the January window with bags of money (as always) to spend.  If it were anybody but the hated ManU no one would even be entertaining the notion that this is a team that could go down.

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2 hours ago, FIF said:

Or maybe we just think it's BS and you are simply following the Times party line. 

 

Just because a writer in the Times says it, that doesn't mean it's true. Times , Sun pretty similar for sport's knowledge.

 

Let me walk you through how we got to this.

 

Before I start, read your latest post above. What do you think? Do you think you sound like a particularly truculent 15 year old? 

 

On to the only reason I even posted about the Times article. This is you, playing the archetypal gormless internet numpty;

 

16 hours ago, FIF said:

It doesn't say anything about the fee or add ons for Maguire in that article that I can see. As far as I was aware we got £80m (or as good as) upfront, we won't be losing out because of Manure's poor performances. Happy to be corrected though.

 

Mate, it's 2019. You (a teacher I believe) are on a computer reading an article. And you seem utterly incapable of scanning the article for the word 'Maguire', or indeed using simple tricks they teach 7 year olds to get your browser to help you. You just plain 'can't see it'.

 

No problem, yerluvinuncleturt to the rescue;

 

14 hours ago, turtmcfly said:

 

Don't want to play Bobby Stickmynebin but from that article;

 

    "Maguire cost United £85 million from Leicester City, with another £5 million in potential add-ons;"

 

I think CTRL-F is for 'friend'

 

 

That's me, just quoting the article with no related comment, other than to add the bit of knowledge a common-or-garden 7 year old would more than likely be privy to.

 

This is your response;

 

14 hours ago, FIF said:

So the fee was £85m then.

 

Do you see what I mean?

 

Now remember, all I've done is quote that article. From The Times (which is like The Sun as I understand it, at least for people who can't find words in articles). And you're saying 'so the fee was £85' - almost as though your taking the amount (in The Times!) as though it has at least some degree of veracity.

 

Here's my response  to that. I'm going to bold the germaine bit (I used CTRL-B, but you can use the 'B' on the toolbar);

 

14 hours ago, turtmcfly said:

 

In the sense that we won't be losing much if we don't get add-ons, yes.

 

Of course, that's if those quoted figures are correct. I get the feeling they're estimates, tweaked to fit the point of an article, in the knowledge that the club/player don't want to get into the game of correcting them. Certainly these numbers are the high end of what we've been led to believe, which as I say is of a piece with the thrust of the article.

 

Does that answer your latest post? Does it seem like I'm saying the figures in the original article are gospel? 

 

Just to ram this point home, here's a fellow poster responding to that post;

 

 

10 hours ago, brucey said:

Have you got a subscription to the Athletic? They did a long detailed article on the transfer, where Whitwell (who is super reliable on us) said just £80m up front.

 

And here's my response. I'm going to do that CTRL-B thing again!

 

9 hours ago, turtmcfly said:

No.

 

I did say in my previous post I take any numbers with a pinch of unowot. I only got involved this time because people were saying they couldn't see Maguire mentioned in the Times article!

 

 

So no, I don't think I'm 'following the Times party line'. I do think you need to have a word with yourself. 

 

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If that starting X1 for United against Newcastle was Villa, we’d all be saying they’re going down. 

If they are still in a mess in February who would you want in your corner in a relegation dog fight?

 

Lingaard or Grealish

Mings or Tuanzebe

Rashford or Wesley

Pogba or Mcginn

De gea or Heaton

I used Villa players as an example as I had them as my team to finish bottom at the start of the season. 

If it did come to a dog fight do United have the characters that would be up for a  fight?

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21 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Yes, “bags of quality”, exactly what I said...:whistle:

 

This team that would struggle to get out of the championship has 9 points, a positive GD and sits in 12th. Meanwhile there are 5 sides with a GD of at least -7.  This is about what they are - mid-table.  As others have noted they’re already dealing with significant injury issues, and will go into the January window with bags of money (as always) to spend.  If it were anybody but the hated ManU no one would even be entertaining the notion that this is a team that could go down.

Man Utd aren't going down, but they have shortened from about 1000/1 to about 40/1 for relegation. They're in a pickle right now.

 

Their current stats do suggest they're going to finish mid-table ish, but momentum is everything. If they don't get their confidence up they could drop like a stone, and who's going to bail them out. Only Maguire, Young or possibly De Gea seem like the kind of characters that will lift a team when they're at a low ebb.

 

They could conceivably get dragged in, especially if their injury problems dog them all season long, which could happen bearing in mind the suggestion that Ole's coaching methods may be playing a part.

 

But the reason I think they actually won't even get close to relegation is that if they're still flirting with a relegation battle in December, I reckon Ole will be gone, Allegri or Pochettino will be in and many millions will be spent in January.

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Look you’ve all got this wrong. OGS is about to turn Man Utd round and become the new Fergie. They just need time. He needs time. Personally they need to show faith and give him the whole season. Anything less would be a betrayal and an admission of the club hierarchy’s utter stupidity. 
 

As fellow fans we must all accept that the giant is only sleeping, albeit a little uncomfortably. OGS is the captain of their ship. Remember the Titanic?  Not even God could sink that, so they said. Not even God could relegate Man Itd. 

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Just now, ALC Fox said:

Man Utd aren't going down, but they have shortened from about 1000/1 to about 40/1 for relegation. They're in a pickle right now.

 

Their current stats do suggest they're going to finish mid-table ish, but momentum is everything. If they don't get their confidence up they could drop like a stone, and who's going to bail them out. Only Maguire, Young or possibly De Gea seem like the kind of characters that will lift a team when they're at a low ebb.

 

They could conceivably get dragged in, especially if their injury problems dog them all season long, which could happen bearing in mind the suggestion that Ole's coaching methods may be playing a part.

 

But the reason I think they actually won't even get close to relegation is that if they're still flirting with a relegation battle in December, I reckon Ole will be gone, Allegri or Pochettino will be in and many millions will be spent in January.

 

What makes you think they'd be spent more judiciously than the 'many millions' that got them down there in the first place?

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3 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Look you’ve all got this wrong. OGS is about to turn Man Utd round and become the new Fergie. They just need time. He needs time. Personally they need to show faith and give him the whole season. Anything less would be a betrayal and an admission of the club hierarchy’s utter stupidity. 
 

As fellow fans we must all accept that the giant is only sleeping, albeit a little uncomfortably. OGS is the captain of their ship. Remember the Titanic?  Not even God could sink that, so they said. Not even God could relegate Man Itd. 

Don't forget that Ole understands the importance of The United Way.

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Just now, turtmcfly said:

 

What makes you think they'd be spent more judiciously than the 'many millions' that got them down there in the first place?

Fair point. I just think a new manager and some new faces will pick them up. It is true that their recruitment is shocking right now. But in the short term I think whoever will come in and spend will keep them up and secure them in at least mid-table.

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Just now, Blue ROI said:

Don't forget that Ole understands the importance of The United Way.

Exactly - he is the man to guide them. They are precious to him. He sits in a cave at night whispering, ‘my precious’. They could not find someone more obsessed and passionate. 

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1 minute ago, ALC Fox said:

Fair point. I just think a new manager and some new faces will pick them up. It is true that their recruitment is shocking right now. But in the short term I think whoever will come in and spend will keep them up and secure them in at least mid-table.

 

I think their summer business smacked of panic. In the mooted scenario, it would be panic squared.

 

I wonder if there's a Brazilian called Barney going for a couple of hundred million...

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48 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Yes, “bags of quality”, exactly what I said...:whistle:

 

This team that would struggle to get out of the championship has 9 points, a positive GD and sits in 12th. Meanwhile there are 5 sides with a GD of at least -7.  This is about what they are - mid-table.  As others have noted they’re already dealing with significant injury issues, and will go into the January window with bags of money (as always) to spend.  If it were anybody but the hated ManU no one would even be entertaining the notion that this is a team that could go down.

 

Again, I stated my personal belief that I don't think they will go down and tbh I don't want them to, the league would be weaker for it as much as I hate that sentiment. 

 

I'm just telling you it isn't ridiculous to imagine they could, especially if they kept Ole all year (they wouldn't and won't.) Whilst I don't normally subscribe to pointless "what if" hypothetical situations, if you take away what's basically a freak result on that opening day they'd be 18th, only ahead of Norwich by virtue of a - 3 GD. 

 

Six of that team vs Chelsea (which is proooooobably "too good to go down" tbf) have been missing through lack of fitness and form now and their ability to replace them is Football League worthy. 

 

Aston Villa have more quality of depth in their squad and nobody would be shocked if they go down. 

 

It's unthinkable that United go down (and again, I don't think they will) but its also not "silly" to say. 

 

Conversely to your suggestion that people are only saying they might because it's United, I'd say you're only dismissing the idea because it's United. 

 

If Watford had that squad (and let's be honest, Pogba is the only player they've got that's that beyond Watford's level even on paper) we'd all be saying they could go. 

 

Sunderland had a team of similar quality and fell through two divisions. 

 

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2 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

Did I miss the part where someone actually suggested ManU would go down?

 

Because they won't.  I mean - come on.  To even suggest it (or that the league would have to step in to prevent it) is silly. 

It's not that, there are just too many teams (including us) that are still afraid of the reputation and line up based on the name Manchester United.

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1 minute ago, lcfcsnow said:

It's not that, there are just too many teams (including us) that are still afraid of the reputation and line up based on the name Manchester United.

This is true and sadly we were one of them.

 

Team still seem scared to go to OT and attack them.

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5 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

It's not that, there are just too many teams (including us) that are still afraid of the reputation and line up based on the name Manchester United.

While that is true, that effect will be fading fast the longer the form continues and their league position worsens.

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1 hour ago, Deeg67 said:

No one has railed against the idea of a false “Big 6” this season more than me.  But it’s just as absurd to say ManU is in danger of relegation.  They’re awful by their standards, but consider the personnel on the bottom-feeder sides - there’s just no way in hell.  They’re good for anywhere from about 8th-12th, most likely.  It’s a nice fantasy to picture them in a relegation scrap but it ain’t happening.

Our title winning squad minus Kante looked destined for the drop as late as Feb that season until Ranieri was sacked. I don't see why it is unrealistic if you look at their team on paper. 

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All this talk about Man Utd going down...........

 

How about the mighty Spuds joining them? Poch has now been given a vote of confidence by 'shrewd businessman' Levy so he'll be out soon!

 

Mind you, with Levy having to pay Poch 35 million to get rid, he may hang around until OGS gets the boot from Man Utd, then Levy can come up with another of his utterly crazy transfer fees (60 million last time I read) for Man Utd to get him.

 

And Man Utd are stupid enough to pay it too.

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52 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Exactly - he is the man to guide them. They are precious to him. He sits in a cave at night whispering, ‘my precious’. They could not find someone more obsessed and passionate. 

 

Bc-mH4XIMAAFlsM.jpg

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1 hour ago, turtmcfly said:

 

Let me walk you through how we got to this.

 

Before I start, read your latest post above. What do you think? Do you think you sound like a particularly truculent 15 year old? 

 

On to the only reason I even posted about the Times article. This is you, playing the archetypal gormless internet numpty;

 

 

Mate, it's 2019. You (a teacher I believe) are on a computer reading an article. And you seem utterly incapable of scanning the article for the word 'Maguire', or indeed using simple tricks they teach 7 year olds to get your browser to help you. You just plain 'can't see it'.

 

No problem, yerluvinuncleturt to the rescue;

 

 

That's me, just quoting the article with no related comment, other than to add the bit of knowledge a common-or-garden 7 year old would more than likely be privy to.

 

This is your response;

 

 

Now remember, all I've done is quote that article. From The Times (which is like The Sun as I understand it, at least for people who can't find words in articles). And you're saying 'so the fee was £85' - almost as though your taking the amount (in The Times!) as though it has at least some degree of veracity.

 

Here's my response  to that. I'm going to bold the germaine bit (I used CTRL-B, but you can use the 'B' on the toolbar);

 

 

Does that answer your latest post? Does it seem like I'm saying the figures in the original article are gospel? 

 

Just to ram this point home, here's a fellow poster responding to that post;

 

 

 

And here's my response. I'm going to do that CTRL-B thing again!

 

 

 

So no, I don't think I'm 'following the Times party line'. I do think you need to have a word with yourself. 

 

So in fact you intervened into a discussion, which you have every right to do, where I was querying the fact that the fee was less than £80m and a large part of it was add-ons which I believed not to be the truth. To tell me that the article (which I read) said the fee was more than £85m with add ons above this figure. Which is why I asked you if you see what I mean. Clearly you didn't but you thought you did as you then go onto proving me right again before resorting to some personal insults which are acceptable from some posters on here and not from others - and before you say anything else, I realise you were just replying and no real insult was meant nor taken as I enjoy reading your posts/thoughts. My retaliation about your towing the times line was tongue in cheek, which maybe you missed and I apologise for making it. I know that you, unlike some, don't take everything you read for gospel, which is why I felt I could say it without being misunderstood.

 

In fact the whole point of my initial post was to point out papers don't have a clue about the details and that the claims in the article were total BS.

 

I'll leave it there and move on.

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