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The Politics Thread 2019

By Mark, in General Chat

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Guest SO1

Guest SO1

Posted
Posted

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/07/britain-pirates-iranian-ship-grace-1-iran-responds-takes-british-tanker-hostage.html

Did this actually happen? Your country at the behest of the morons who run my government actually pirate a ship that belongs to Iran.

And expect a different result. Sounds like we both have problems. As bad as Trump is, it sounds like the UK is no better.

Does your country really want a war? If it doesn't then maybe its time to stop following us. I'm sick of seeing this.

The support of the UK only makes Trump stronger. Then we'll all be sorry. My representatives won't even appear in public anymore. Won't even listen.

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yorkie1999

yorkie1999

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, SO1 said:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/07/britain-pirates-iranian-ship-grace-1-iran-responds-takes-british-tanker-hostage.html

Did this actually happen? Your country at the behest of the morons who run my government actually pirate a ship that belongs to Iran.

And expect a different result. Sounds like we both have problems. As bad as Trump is, it sounds like the UK is no better.

Does your country really want a war? If it doesn't then maybe its time to stop following us. I'm sick of seeing this.

The support of the UK only makes Trump stronger. Then we'll all be sorry. My representatives won't even appear in public anymore. Won't even listen.

It'll be something to do with tom cruise's new top gun movie.

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Kopfkino

Kopfkino

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SO1 said:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/07/britain-pirates-iranian-ship-grace-1-iran-responds-takes-british-tanker-hostage.html

Did this actually happen? Your country at the behest of the morons who run my government actually pirate a ship that belongs to Iran.

And expect a different result. Sounds like we both have problems. As bad as Trump is, it sounds like the UK is no better.

Does your country really want a war? If it doesn't then maybe its time to stop following us. I'm sick of seeing this.

The support of the UK only makes Trump stronger. Then we'll all be sorry. My representatives won't even appear in public anymore. Won't even listen.

 

You need to find a better news source. State of that

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Guest SO1

Guest SO1

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

It'll be something to do with tom cruise's new top gun movie.

Hope he's not in one of those F35s. Maybe he'll crash and L. Ron Hubbard will fly down from Outer Space to save him and deliver him back to Htrae.:scarf:

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Guest SO1

Guest SO1

Posted
Posted
Just now, Kopfkino said:

 

You need to find a better news source. State of that

What the Guardian or the New York Times? The papers who lied us into the Iraq war. I find Bernhard right on and all of his sources and info. very credible.

If the main stream media is your only trusted source then I can't help you. You have to go out and do the work. This isn't fake news.

If you have different opinion that's fine but I'm not going to restate an issue when a link to another source does it better. Frankly I'm not a good enough typist or writer.

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Kopfkino

Kopfkino

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, SO1 said:

What the Guardian or the New York Times? The papers who lied us into the Iraq war. I find Bernhard right on and all of his sources and info. very credible.

If the main stream media is your only trusted source then I can't help you. You have to go out and do the work. This isn't fake news.

If you have different opinion that's fine but I'm not going to restate an issue when a link to another source does it better. Frankly I'm not a good enough typist or writer.

A half credible news source, even an opinion piece, would at least state the situation as is before the nonsense about piracy. That the UK, on request from Gibraltar and possibly acting on intelligence from the US, legally intercepted a ship en route to deliver oil to Syria which is in contravention of EU sanctions. It might also note that the two sources saying the UK's actions were just down to it being the US's lapdog are Iran, no shock to anyone, and Spain who are more interested in a spat about Gibraltar and whose waters surround it.

 

Tbf looking at the rest of it, it isn't as bad as I thought, just an American lefty version of Guido. But funnily enough there's a huge chunk of credible sources between the 'mainstream media' (itself a lamentable phrase) and biased asf echo chamber blogs for people that can't think.

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MC Prussian

MC Prussian

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, Charl91 said:

Can you honestly not see why Trump as a person (putting policy to one side for a moment) gets more criticism than Obama, Bush, or any other previous U.S president? It's clearly not just a "liberal media" thing.

Trump's personality has been known for years prior to his election as US president. I'm just curious to find out why it is so shocking to people now that they're getting so upset over a single person's personality?

Obama will fondly remembered for his charismatic personality and he was pretty much unknown outside the US prior to his election. Charismatic personality aside, it overshadows his rather poor domestic policy-making and questionable military and foreign politics decisions.

 

Part of it the fascination with Trump has indeed to do with this constant media bashing, when they should be focusing on Trump's policies instead. The US media in particular profits heavily from Trump, as he gives them all the verbal nuggets they need to stretch a non-story no end.

Social Media, and Twitter especially also play a part in this, as Trump's Tweets tend to be on the inflammatory or divisive side, deliberate or not. He's only the second president that I know of who is on Twitter. And I don't consider it a particularly positive platform, to be honest. Way too much hostility, social outrage and useless opinions on there, anyway. It's given way too much importance these days. It's an activist's paradise, and offers little in constructive (political) debate.

 

I don't particularly like Trump - yet going back to 2016, in a choice between him and Hillary Clinton, you'll be hard-pressed to find better arguments in favour of the other side.

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Charl91

Charl91

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

Trump's personality has been known for years prior to his election as US president. I'm just curious to find out why it is so shocking to people now that they're getting so upset over a single person's personality?

 

 

1. Many people wouldn't have known a great deal about Trump's personality (why would they? I certainly knew little about him pre-candidacy; why should I care about one of many extremely rich Americans?)

 

2. Continuing on from point one, due to his recently elevated status, a lot more information which wasn't previously well known to the public has now come to light.

 

3. Perhaps people thought that regardless of past transgressions, he would maybe try and act in a manner which is befitting to a president.

 

4. Presidents are, rightly so, held to a higher standard than Joe Bloggs in the street.

 

Personality is important. In a leading political position, you are expected to behave and act to a certain standard, and for good reason. You are THE main representative of your country and the smallest words and actions have consequences, and reflect upon your country.  In society, we have virtues that we deem important. A Prime Minister / President is supposed to be a role-model for others and uphold these values. No matter my views on their policies, in my life-time all other prime ministers and presidents have managed to conduct themselves in a reasonably respectable manner. We teach kids about honesty, integrity, courage, etc. and these are the standards they should try and maintain, even if they do sometimes fall short.  

 

Now, I honestly can't think of anyone who is the antithesis of these positive values more than Donald Trump is. If we're saying that in society it's a positive thing to lie, cheat and bully to get what you want, then I really worry about the future of this planet.  This isn't simply a left/right thing. I can't work out whether people on the right know this to be the case and are simply just parroting the party line, or whether they've performed Olympic Gold standard feats of mental gymnastics to the point whether they genuinely believe that all this opposition to Trump is simply unfair "librul media". There has never been this amount of hatred for any other candidate, left or right, and for good reason.

 

I won't argue on his policies. My view is that they are poor, but as a left-leaning person I would likely say that about most Republican candidates, so I won't make that debate. I will also agree that the choice between Trump and Hillary was a terrible one (if I were American I probably would've gritted my teeth and voted Hillary, but she's barely an improvement on Trump). But as a person? He is a barefaced liar, a sexual predator, a cheat and a danger to the planet (environmentally). And people will just lap it up. They believe his "alternative facts", will whoop and cheer for him, and say what a great guy he is, because he might save them a little bit of cash in the short term, and perhaps get rid of brown people .To me, that's just morally bankrupt. He is not fit for political office.

Edited by Charl91
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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

Trump's personality has been known for years prior to his election as US president. I'm just curious to find out why it is so shocking to people now that they're getting so upset over a single person's personality?

Obama will fondly remembered for his charismatic personality and he was pretty much unknown outside the US prior to his election. Charismatic personality aside, it overshadows his rather poor domestic policy-making and questionable military and foreign politics decisions.

 

Part of it the fascination with Trump has indeed to do with this constant media bashing, when they should be focusing on Trump's policies instead. The US media in particular profits heavily from Trump, as he gives them all the verbal nuggets they need to stretch a non-story no end.

Social Media, and Twitter especially also play a part in this, as Trump's Tweets tend to be on the inflammatory or divisive side, deliberate or not. He's only the second president that I know of who is on Twitter. And I don't consider it a particularly positive platform, to be honest. Way too much hostility, social outrage and useless opinions on there, anyway. It's given way too much importance these days. It's an activist's paradise, and offers little in constructive (political) debate.

 

I don't particularly like Trump - yet going back to 2016, in a choice between him and Hillary Clinton, you'll be hard-pressed to find better arguments in favour of the other side.

You're right, they should. There's certainly enough to go after there...what with the threats to womens and LGBT rights, the current healthcare snafu and the total horror show ecologically.

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Trav Le Bleu

Trav Le Bleu

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

 

1. Many people wouldn't have known a great deal about Trump's personality (why would they? I certainly knew little about him pre-candidacy; why should I care about one of many extremely rich Americans?)

 

2. Continuing on from point one, due to his recently elevated status, a lot more information which wasn't previously well known to the public has now come to light.

 

3. Perhaps people thought that regardless of past transgressions, he would maybe try and act in a manner which is befitting to a president.

 

4. Presidents are, rightly so, held to a higher standard than Joe Bloggs in the street.

 

Personality is important. In a leading political position, you are expected to behave and act to a certain standard, and for good reason. You are THE main representative of your country and the smallest words and actions have consequences, and reflect upon your country.  In society, we have virtues that we deem important. A Prime Minister / President is supposed to be a role-model for others and uphold these values. No matter my views on their policies, in my life-time all other prime ministers and presidents have managed to conduct themselves in a reasonably respectable manner. We teach kids about honesty, integrity, courage, etc. and these are the standards they should try and maintain, even if they do sometimes fall short.  

 

Now, I honestly can't think of anyone who is the antithesis of these positive values more than Donald Trump is. If we're saying that in society it's a positive thing to lie, cheat and bully to get what you want, then I really worry about the future of this planet.  This isn't simply a left/right thing. I can't work out whether people on the right know this to be the case and are simply just parroting the party line, or whether they've performed Olympic Gold standard feats of mental gymnastics to the point whether they genuinely believe that all this opposition to Trump is simply unfair "librul media". There has never been this amount of hatred for any other candidate, left or right, and for good reason.

 

I won't argue on his policies. My view is that they are poor, but as a left-leaning person I would likely say that about most Republican candidates, so I won't make that debate. I will also agree that the choice between Trump and Hillary was a terrible one (if I were American I probably would've gritted my teeth and voted Hillary, but she's barely an improvement on Trump). But as a person? He is a barefaced liar, a sexual predator, a cheat and a danger to the planet (environmentally). And people will just lap it up. They believe his "alternative facts", will whoop and cheer for him, and say what a great guy he is, because he might save them a little bit of cash in the short term, and perhaps get rid of brown people .To me, that's just morally bankrupt. He is not fit for political office.

Racist. You forgot racist.

 

Except he's not, because he says he isn't.

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MC Prussian

MC Prussian

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Charl91 said:

 

1. Many people wouldn't have known a great deal about Trump's personality (why would they? I certainly knew little about him pre-candidacy; why should I care about one of many extremely rich Americans?)

 

2. Continuing on from point one, due to his recently elevated status, a lot more information which wasn't previously well known to the public has now come to light.

 

3. Perhaps people thought that regardless of past transgressions, he would maybe try and act in a manner which is befitting to a president.

 

4. Presidents are, rightly so, held to a higher standard than Joe Bloggs in the street.

 

Personality is important. In a leading political position, you are expected to behave and act to a certain standard, and for good reason. You are THE main representative of your country and the smallest words and actions have consequences, and reflect upon your country.  In society, we have virtues that we deem important. A Prime Minister / President is supposed to be a role-model for others and uphold these values. No matter my views on their policies, in my life-time all other prime ministers and presidents have managed to conduct themselves in a reasonably respectable manner. We teach kids about honesty, integrity, courage, etc. and these are the standards they should try and maintain, even if they do sometimes fall short.  

 

Now, I honestly can't think of anyone who is the antithesis of these positive values more than Donald Trump is. If we're saying that in society it's a positive thing to lie, cheat and bully to get what you want, then I really worry about the future of this planet.  This isn't simply a left/right thing. I can't work out whether people on the right know this to be the case and are simply just parroting the party line, or whether they've performed Olympic Gold standard feats of mental gymnastics to the point whether they genuinely believe that all this opposition to Trump is simply unfair "librul media". There has never been this amount of hatred for any other candidate, left or right, and for good reason.

 

I won't argue on his policies. My view is that they are poor, but as a left-leaning person I would likely say that about most Republican candidates, so I won't make that debate. I will also agree that the choice between Trump and Hillary was a terrible one (if I were American I probably would've gritted my teeth and voted Hillary, but she's barely an improvement on Trump). But as a person? He is a barefaced liar, a sexual predator, a cheat and a danger to the planet (environmentally). And people will just lap it up. They believe his "alternative facts", will whoop and cheer for him, and say what a great guy he is, because he might save them a little bit of cash in the short term, and perhaps get rid of brown people .To me, that's just morally bankrupt. He is not fit for political office.

Trump has been known to the American public for close to 40 years, "no one in the world of business – not Bill Gates, Steve Jobs or Warren Buffett – has been as famous as Trump for as long." (Michael D'Antonio)

 

He has written countless books (mostly about himself lol), among them one bestseller, and has seen many books written about him, several of them bestsellers, and he featured on the US "Apprentice" for fourteen (!) seasons, which was seen by roughly 10 million viewers each season on average.

 

Needless to say, the US population had seen more of Donald Trump and gotten to know him pretty well in the decades prior to 2015/2016 than they had heard of Illinois senator Barack Obama leading up to the 2008 presidency. Trump even described himself as a Democrat at some stage, but usually refrained from affiliating with either party.

Quote

Trump was registered as a Democrat for more than eight years in the 2000s, according to New York City voter records made public during his campaign for president in 2016.

Trump owned up to his years with the other party and told CNN he identified with Democrats during that time because they were more adept at handling the economy.

Said Trump:

"It just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats than the Republicans. Now, it shouldn't be that way. But if you go back, I mean it just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats. ... But certainly we had some very good economies under Democrats, as well as Republicans. But we've had some pretty bad disasters under the Republicans."
Trump was a registered Democrat from August 2001 through September 2009.

https://www.thoughtco.com/was-donald-trump-a-democrat-3367571

 

US voters didn't vote for Trump based on his personality mostly, it was one big "fvck you" to the Democrat establishment.

Quote

Today, that broad ideological divide has largely dissolved. The political sphere has narrowed; politics has increasingly become more about technocratic management than about social change. The gap between voters and the elite has widened, fostering disenchantment with the very idea of politics.

One way in which people have felt this change is as a crisis of political representation, as a growing sense of being denied a voice, and of political institutions as being remote and corrupt.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/03/politics-disillusionment-rise-trump-160303135024517.html

 

And we can debate and talk about Trump all we want, what matters is mostly how the US population sees him, and his approval ratings have gone up again in the last twelve months:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

 

42% percent might not look that impressive, but below the Trump approval rating, you can see comparisons to the presidents before him, so in relation, it's not that bad at all.

 

Trump is very likely to get another four years, this mainly thanks to incredibly weak and faceless Democratic candidates. What I'm curious to find out is whom the Democrats will push for 2024. I can't but repeat myself: Tulsi, Tulsi Gabbard is the one solution. If I were a swing voter, I'd give her my vote in an instant. And by that time, she might have gained just enough traction to sweep the Republican candidates off the table. It's time the Democrats give her the attention she deserves.

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Trav Le Bleu

Trav Le Bleu

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

He’s probably the least racist person he knows. SAD!

He doesn't know any of those people at his rallies?

 

 

 

(N.B. I'm not saying all his supporters are racist, but I suspect some of those people are REALLY racist.)

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

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35 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

 

And we can debate and talk about Trump all we want, what matters is mostly how the US population sees him, and his approval ratings have gone up again in the last twelve months:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

 

42% percent might not look that impressive, but below the Trump approval rating, you can see comparisons to the presidents before him, so in relation, it's not that bad at all.

 

Trump is very likely to get another four years, this mainly thanks to incredibly weak and faceless Democratic candidates. What I'm curious to find out is whom the Democrats will push for 2024. I can't but repeat myself: Tulsi, Tulsi Gabbard is the one solution. If I were a swing voter, I'd give her my vote in an instant. And by that time, she might have gained just enough traction to sweep the Republican candidates off the table. It's time the Democrats give her the attention she deserves.

 

Hmmmm....

 

I don't doubt for a minute the distinct possibility that Trump might get a second term - or that the Democrats might put up a weak candidate and shoot themselves in the foot to help him do that.

Not to mention the unpredictability of an election that will presumably be even dirtier and more polarised than previous presidential elections....

 

But....

 

Unless I'm misreading those comparative polls, at this stage of the cycle Trump's ratings are lower than those of any other first-term president for the past 50 years.....with the exception of Jimmy Carter, who didn't get a second term.

He's even behind George H.W. Bush, who didn't get a second term....

 

I'm not saying that I necessarily expect him to lose. My guess is that it is likely to be close and to depend on events in the meantime, how the public react to a filthy campaign & whether the Democrats find a decent candidate.

But those polls gave me some hope that the cvnt might get booted out after a single term. Long, long way to go yet, though.....and will be interesting to see if he even accepts defeat if he does lose.

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Suzie the Fox

Suzie the Fox

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

He doesn't know any of those people at his rallies?

 

 

 

(N.B. I'm not saying all his supporters are racist, but I suspect some of those people are REALLY racist.)

Pretty sure that Grand Wizard guy of KKK is, but i could be wrong :P 

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Grebfromgrebland

Grebfromgrebland

Posted
Posted (edited)

Politicians in power in the UK and US are have the morals and values that you would not want your children to have.

 

This is an issue for me.  We have to explain to our children that our prime minister and the president of the US are liars, cheats and frauds. 

 

We have to teach them not to be like the people who have ultimate power in our country and to not believe what they are saying and not to believe what's on the news or newspapers.

 

It's shit but we are in a new world of lies and disinformation and I hate the fact that I have to explain all this to my children.

 

What kind of world are we passing on to the next generation? I feel like we have failed if we let the likes of Trump, Farage and Johnson get their way and live in a world of lies and politics of hate.

Edited by Grebfromgrebland
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davieG

davieG

Posted
Posted

What a sad twisted society we have when people, and from all sides can't have an opinion without being abused.

 

Labour's shadow justice minister Gloria De Piero has quit its front bench and decided not to stand at the next general election, saying she is worried about the party's "lack of tolerance".

Ms De Piero, who is the MP for Ashfield in Nottinghamshire, said she had received "grim" online abuse.

She campaigned for Remain in a strongly pro-Brexit seat but does not support a second referendum.

The shadow chancellor John McDonnell said her decision was "disappointing".

Speaking to members on Friday, Ms De Piero said a "lack of tolerance for different viewpoints in the Labour Party frankly worries me".

"We have to have respect for each other, even if we disagree, because we are all part of this party," she added.

She said she received abuse on social media from people wanting to overturn the referendum result.

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Guest SO1

Guest SO1

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Posted
16 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Politicians in power in the UK and US are have the morals and values that you would not want your children to have.

 

This is an issue for me.  We have to explain to our children that our prime minister and the president of the US are liars, cheats and frauds. 

 

We have to teach them not to be like the people who have ultimate power in our country and to not believe what they are saying and not to believe what's on the news or newspapers.

 

It's shit but we are in a new world of lies and disinformation and I hate the fact that I have to explain all this to my children.

Your children are so lucky they have a parent who's willing to discuss real life. Even if your kids think your full of xxxx.:)

At least they'll know you Love them and that you care. Not just a mom or dad, but someone figuring it out just like them. The highest honor.

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