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Tom12345

Rodgers v Puel

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8 hours ago, weller54 said:

Puel would win the SPL if he managed Celtic!... 

Having said that my cat would win the SPL if he managed Celtic. 

Ive got Huddersfield on the phone... what are your cats contract requirements?

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You're giving Puel all the credit for a top ten finish with Southampton but Rodgers none for second with Liverpool, given the squad he had at his disposal?

 

That Liverpool side over-achieved big time under Rodgers.

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17 hours ago, Koke said:

Interesting discussion but it will descend into mud slinging because some people will get PTSD the moment they hear the name Puel. All rationality goes out of the window 

 

 

You rang?

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3 hours ago, Clever Fox said:

Its too early to form a definitive conclusion  but one thing find strange, that people are prepared to turn it into a personality contest regardless of each persons ability as a Manager.

Just because Puel had a quiet disposition it didn't make him a bad Manager . Sir Alf Rmsey had a similar disposition and he didn't do too badly. Yet many at the time wanted him dismissed because he didn't appear sexy enough for them.

 

Puel came here with the intention of making us better and he certainly done that.

There's no doubt he had an image problem, especially dealing with the media and players.  Rogers on the other hand is media savvy and knows how to massage egos.

Any fan who thinks Rogers record compares to Puels are deluded. It doesn't even come close. Take the Celtic results away and what has he done. A play off win with Swansea and a 2nd place finish with Liverpool, after he was left a great team by Kenny Dalglish.

 

Puel on the other hand has won league and Cup in France. A cup final and top 10 finish with Southampton, plus a European trophy with Monaco I think.

Do I think he would have been a success here, yes I know he would have brought success. Why, Because he had already found a way to beat or get closer to the big Clubs.

Plus the quality of his signings  Maddison, Ricardo,Tielemans. Plus he talked Harry Maguire to stay and sign a new Contract

I believe also, only that he was saddled with Slimani , Kelechi and Silva plus others on long Contracts, he would have brought in a top Striker and or Winger. But FFP and financial Budgets made this difficult.

Compare this to Rogers window, Where we sign Perez and lose Maguire. Yet he was reported to have 100 mil to spend. Again I'd say no comparison with Puel.

I also feel rightly or wrongly that Rogers backroom team is weaker than others in the recent past. Going back as far as Pearson.

 

There's no doubt some at the Club wanted Rogers to take over and when results went against Puel they seized on the opportunity. Results that had as much to do with the exceptional and extraordinary events that took place last year, Coupled with the reported unrest among senior players. it's clear now that Puel misread this situation believing the Club had his back, When some within were working against him. That coupled with some inept displays on the pitch led to his demise.

 

While there is huge similarity in the way they both liked to work,both preferring to play football from the back and develop young players.The comparison ends there. Rogers likes to set up his team his way and it's up to the opposition to beat it. Whereas  Puel sent out his team also with a plan but was prepared to adjust it as the game dictated. This was demonstrated by many of our second half performances where we came back to get a result in games.

Rogers is clearly better in dealing with players using a modern approach. Where Puel was more old school a bit like Fergie and Mourhino. ..

 

While it's still early days for Rogers and I've no wish to take sides. He has some way to go to get near Puels success in his short time here. A result tomorrow against Chelsea would help address that in balance.But only time will tell if he can deliver. Personally I have my doubts. But that;s just my opinion.

With Puel, We'll never know what might have been. On such decisions history books are written.

There's many that might criticise you on this as it appears the done thing to do so. I think that it was well written and I agree entirely. Football is a cruel game and sometimes faces unfortunately just don't fit. Puel came in at a very difficult time, the gravity of which is very understated. Just as Pearson was an essential building block on the route to success, including much behind the scenes dirty work,  Puel too had a similar task to perform in some ways and certainly made a difference.

 

Rodgers overwhelmingly talks the talk and I  of course wish him the very best for obvious reasons but,  it remains to be seen whether he can walk the walk. He certainly has a far easier task to attempt it due to Puel completing some of the dirty ground work for him and bringing in some good players. He will be afforded more time I feel if it's not going well initially because his media persona  (it should go well though and I'm very optimistic). But, if it does start to go well, I think he'll be off like a shot the first time there's a sniff of a bigger job. The problem we'll have then are our younger players that have bought into the blarney and become unsettled. 

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2 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

You're giving Puel all the credit for a top ten finish with Southampton but Rodgers none for second with Liverpool, given the squad he had at his disposal?

 

That Liverpool side over-achieved big time under Rodgers.

Was some of that because of the playing staff he brought in? It went to rats when Sanchez went, could be similar with Vardy. 

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To be a manager, any manager, anywhere you need to be able to ‘man’-age. That means communicate effectively and obtain buy-in or at least respect from your staff of your philosophies.

 

If you can’t do the above you can still buy good players, bring through youth, implement a new footballing style, etc etc... all commendable attributes. But let’s be honest here, if you ignore your players, disrespect them and can’t make them buy into a philosophy after months of them trying, you’re not really managing.

 

Right now we’ve got a manager that the players at the moment are backing and the team spirit is a different world from where it was 15 games ago.

 

If the helicopter hadn’t gone down I genuinely believe he’d have been sacked after the West Ham game. 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, weller54 said:

Puel would win the SPL if he managed Celtic!... 

Having said that my cat would win the SPL if he managed Celtic. 

Tony Mowbray and John Barnes didn't manage it. Not sure Puel would either to be honest. 

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This will be an interesting topic to come back to in a few months when Rodgers has had more games post new manager bounce. 

I stuck up for Puel for a couple of reasons but one of them was that I thought it was pretty unlikely that a new manager would come in and make us significantly better than the midtable side that we were, in fact there was a reasonable chance we'd get someone worse. Counter to this there were many who felt that our squad was full of top level quality and that once Puels evil, dour shackles were gone we'd be a totally different team and sweep all before us.

Obviously Rodgers is not a charlatan and we're not gonna get significantly worse under him but given the evidence so far we still look likely to hover about midtable. Once the new manager bounce has gone we have largely the same players playing a not totally dissimilar style of football with the same problems when facing deep and loaded defences. Rodgers personality will make him more popular with the fans but I think overall the league position and to an extent the football style will remain pretty similar over the coming months.

 

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Whilst both men have a similar approach to the game, it’s clear from players interviews that Rodgers asks them to play at a higher tempo than puel did. Puel was also less of a ‘man manager’ which is very much required these days.  

 

the communications side shouldn’t under estimated either ...... both with fans and crucially, also with players ......

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Aah, so that's why I thought he was so appalling...! Nothing to do with his style of football, then.

 

I'm annoyed with myself as I promised not to get drawn into (or even look at) any Claude threads - and look what's happened!! I thought I'd just leave the fanboys to it, reminiscing about the beautiful period that we enjoyed under his leadership - whilst I'm clearly wrong for looking back on him as nothing more than a puss-filled pimple on the arse of our history.

 

For the only time ever, I stopped going to games. I generally stayed at home smacking my bollocks with a sledgehammer and then poking rusty nails in my eyeballs, which I found to be waaay more fun that watching us play. Maybe people cleverer than me saw something other than the life-sapping, mind-numbing, energy draining dirge that I witnessed - and the complete absence of atmosphere or excitement at games was maybe some kind of mass delusion?? 

 

Anyway - doesn't really matter. Nobody is right or wrong in their opinions, are they? 

 

He's an ever fading memory and I'm getting my glad rags on going to watch us at Chelsea    :scarf:

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1 hour ago, FIF said:

Very similar managers.

 

Difference one doesn't speak English well and doesn't speak BS. One sorta does.

There’s possibly a few more differences than that. One has the support of the dressing room and some man management skills for a start.

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2 hours ago, FIF said:

Very similar managers.

 

Difference one doesn't speak English well and doesn't speak BS. One sorta does.

 

34 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

There’s possibly a few more differences than that. One has the support of the dressing room and some man management skills for a start.

Puel seemed to have the full support of the younger players to me. 

 

From the outside, it looked to me the senior players were worried about being fazed out under Puel as he was introducing so many younger players, so they started putting it around there was discontent. Rodgers saw this straight away and got the main senior players (especially Kasper and Vardy) on his side. Other less senior players (Simpson, Okazaki) have been quickly moved on.

 

Tactically they seem like almost identical managers. Some good performances, some poor performances. No one can say v Wolves we were any better than anything under poor old Claude, and so far I would think the percentage difference in good/tedious performances are about the same.

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1 hour ago, ThaiFox said:

 

Puel seemed to have the full support of the younger players to me. 

 

From the outside, it looked to me the senior players were worried about being fazed out under Puel as he was introducing so many younger players, so they started putting it around there was discontent. Rodgers saw this straight away and got the main senior players (especially Kasper and Vardy) on his side. Other less senior players (Simpson, Okazaki) have been quickly moved on.

 

Tactically they seem like almost identical managers. Some good performances, some poor performances. No one can say v Wolves we were any better than anything under poor old Claude, and so far I would think the percentage difference in good/tedious performances are about the same.

What the **** have you been watching? I defended Claude during his time here but the difference is night and day. Can't believe what I'm reading in here

 

1 draw at the back end of last season against Chelsea and a draw against Wolves - and we get this. **** me

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5 minutes ago, Goober said:

What the **** have you been watching? I defended Claude during his time here but the difference is night and day. Can't believe what I'm reading in here

 

1 draw at the back end of last season against Chelsea and a draw against Wolves - and we get this. **** me

I watch every match in full out here. Often I watch a re-run of the match too.

 

They are both mainly slow possession based managers. I agree the performances picked up with the appointment of Rodgers, but this was to be expected as players try to prove their worth and others relieved the old manager has gone. It'll be interesting to see how we develop through the season, especially if we start badly and confidence dives.

 

Watching us v Liverpool (towards the end of Puel) we played well with lots of commitment. I could name several other matches under Puel where we played well. I can name several under Rodgers where the play has been poor. It's about tempo, and both managers to me are quite similar in set up and tactics.

 

The team BR put out last week, no wingers and 2 defensive midfielders, at home, against a team who had traveled a long way in a Europa League match was negative and Puel would have been slaughtered on here if we'd played that team, and that badly, even if we'd won (like Everton away).

 

Don't get me wrong, I really hope BR succeeds here. I loathe changing managers every season and I want some stability. I think managers should be given more time, and Ranieri, Shakey and Puel were ousted far too soon to put a real stamp on the club, although I do think Puel did an enormous amount for our club in a very short time, which went unnoticed, and he's given little credit for.

 

But I really do see similarities between the two and from the comments I'm reading, I'm not the only one. I also have kept in contact with an old Scottish school friend who's a Celtic fan, and he tells me there were lots of very negative, ponderous displays under BR up there.

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20 hours ago, weller54 said:

Puel would win the SPL if he managed Celtic!... 

Having said that my cat would win the SPL if he managed Celtic. 

Managing in the goldfish bowl of Glasgow would certainly be filed under "Intensity"

 

2 hours ago, ThaiFox said:

Puel seemed to have the full support of the younger players to me. 

He really really didn't.

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I personally think that under Puel we had an uncanny ability to win games against the bigger teams _ such as that rare back to back winning feat last December against top three Chelsea then Champions Man City but then were found wanting against the likes of Palace (another 5-1 aggregate trouncing by them) as one example! Likewise we were capable of raising our game away at Liverpool with our draw there but then losing at home to the likes of Southampton and Cardiff!

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Overall, despite some of Puel's recruitment from last season now paying dividends for Rodgers, plus with things like the recall of Harvey Barnes from WBA, bringing in Tielemans, bringing on Choudhury, etc then we still have a lot to give Puel credit for, in spite of his insipid relationship with the media and fans alike, as well as with his encouraging a more slowly paced, even ponderous passing game - and with that in turn alienating him from the vast majority of fans here further. To choose between them then I would favour Rodgers with his more positive high press tactics and coming across to the fans and media alike better and more enthusiastically. Also one of Puel's clangers last season was falling out with and then dropping Vardy - something which would ultimately cost him his job. I also think Rodgers has the respect of the players more.....

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