Rodgers v Puel

[HoustonFox]

I was sad to see Puel go, but then again that’s because it meant we weren’t doing well! But it was the right decision and the right appointment. 

 

It was clear to see that Claude was given a tough task of turning round a club that was playing some woeful stuff and had an aging but successful team. If you look at other examples of this, no one has really done it. Man U haven’t recovered from the Fergie era, Liverpool finally getting back to glory days etc.

 

I’m saying this to give the guy some credit, if anything, he and his team have been shown to be great recruiters and nurturers (in the sense that they played them!) of talent. Caglar and Madders have looked like they’ve established themselves now (still early days on the latter), there’s a lot of excitement around Benkovic, Hamza is now in his second full season, Chilly in the England squad... and so on. 

 

On to the topic in hand... I can see why Brendan was chosen, they do have a lot of similarities in playing style but Brendan is the evolution and has the thing that was missing from Claude - a personal connection: with the players, the club (remember he met everyone when he joined, Claude didn’t and was distant), and the fans. We’re a community club, we won the league through togetherness and we’ve always gravitated to managers who were for us and with us (M’ON and Nigel who was a nobber but he was our nobber). Brodge has recognised that and is playing to it. 

 

Playing style isn’t vastly different but I think we just needed tweaks and motivation rather than another set of wholesale changes. The game on Sunday felt very Puelesque to me - excitement before the game, woeful start but then something happening in second half. Obviously we want more of the second half for the rest of the season and that’s the litmus test for Brendan. 

 

Saturday is huge, we need a win but we also need a performance I think. If anything to get some confidence into some of the underperforming players (Youri and Perez) so they can get that swagger. 

 

I’m confident (as much as a city fan can be) that Rodgers is the right appointment and he’s got my full backing. 

 

   

[foxinsocks]

I cant believe this is a thread.

Puel was crap at man management (ref andy king) played crap food ball (ref the wham game the night of the chopper crash) and was dissed by the players (ref the water break).

Its not the perhaps similar assssment of players ...its how competative we are.  Rogers is a top six manager... puel is out of work

Edited 21 August 2019 by foxinsocks

[Hanan96]

Puel have an aging team. He also hired just 3 months after summer transfer window is done. 

 

Not much we can do during winters. So by the time of manager bounce effect done, he's still have 6 months with that Squad. 

 

Rodgers inherit a younger team that need fewer player. By the time a new manager bounce effect done, new season is start. Summer always perfect time to build a team. 

 

Can't really compare both. Even Rodgers will be struggle if hired during Puel tenure. 

[Dan LCFC]

This thread will hit a silly number of pages and will go on months. Calling it.

[Foxhateram]

6 hours ago, That_Dude said:

That's a by-the-book example of how nostalgia, lack of analytical perspective and personal dislike can alter an objective assessment of a given situation.

Not really is it... We won the bloody league for god sake. Playing OUR way. It wasn't that long ago! 

 

Some of you lot talk like it's a distant dream and a fluke. Ranieri started the rot two thirds of the way through our league winning season. Where we played safer and safer and started to become negative, looking for points rather than winning games the way we had got to the top in the first place. 

 

Then the following season we continued the way we had finished 15/16 with nervous, slow lethargic passing and unsurprisingly we fell down the league. As you say losing two managers in the process. We sincerely missed the box to box midfielder, hense why we Los possession more frequently, without that dynamic player that can play that killer pass. 

 

Chelsea second half was much better, but surely that was as a result of us opening up more and being faster on the attack? Which is exactly what I want to see. I'm not saying hoof it up to Vardy like some of you instantly jump to, that isn't how we played in the first part of 15/16. I'm saying that we need to be much faster, ala Man City. 

 

We have the players to play faster now. We have N'didi to win the ball and Tielemans to release it. As soon as that ball breaks we need to get the ball through to Vardes as fast as possible, otherwise other teams set up two banks of four deep in their half and prevent the space in behind for our pacey players. That almost nullifies Vardy, Perez, Gray etc as they all rely on getting in behind. 

 

There are times for keep ball, but not the whole 90 minutes ala against Wolves. 

[ARM1968]

Puel brought in some good players but in every other respect was dogturd. Rogers isn’t. It’s really simple. 

[foxile5]

I wonder if people realise that you can both appreciate the work Puel did and acknowledge that he wasn't the best fit. 

 

Glad he's gone. Happy he added a bit of value to the club. Hated his pressers and management style. 

 

All contradictory, but relevant, views. 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

2 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

Puel brought in some good players but in every other respect was dogturd. Rogers isn’t. It’s really simple. 

 

2 hours ago, foxile5 said:

I wonder if people realise that you can both appreciate the work Puel did and acknowledge that he wasn't the best fit. 

I appreciate we signed Evans, Maddison and Ricardo (and Soyuncu) while he was in charge.

I appreciate he had to oversee the biggest tragedy in the club's history.

But that's about it.

 

He couldn't man manage the players and staff

He treated players and staff appallingly

He couldn't communicate successfully with anyone, including the fans

Even Mendy, a fellow French speaker, said publicly he didn't always understand his messages

He had no interest in getting fans onside

He was stubborn to the point of pig-headedness

Training sessions were long, repetitive and boring (just like his press interviews) which alienated players

The home form was filth

The football by and large was poor and negative

 

Yes he had to "move us forward" from 2015/16 but for some reason he was determined to tear it to shreds rather than opt for a more smoother transition.

Some people on here are trying to re-write history and/or defend their pro-Puel views from last season.

 

[Obviously I'm defending my anti-Puel views from last season ]

[The Horse's Mouth]

6 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

I appreciate we signed Evans, Maddison and Ricardo (and Soyuncu) while he was in charge.

I appreciate he had to oversee the biggest tragedy in the club's history.

But that's about it.

 

He couldn't man manage the players and staff

He treated players and staff appallingly

He couldn't communicate successfully with anyone, including the fans

Even Mendy, a fellow French speaker, said publicly he didn't always understand his messages

He had no interest in getting fans onside

He was stubborn to the point of pig-headedness

Training sessions were long, repetitive and boring (just like his press interviews) which alienated players

The home form was filth

The football by and large was poor and negative

 

Yes he had to "move us forward" from 2015/16 but for some reason he was determined to tear it to shreds rather than opt for a more smoother transition.

Some people on here are trying to re-write history and/or defend their pro-Puel views from last season.

 

[Obviously I'm defending my anti-Puel views from last season ]

tl;dr he wouldn't give me an interview

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Some people on here are trying to re-write history and/or defend their pro-Puel views from last season.

I don't think so Geoff - this sort of effort does you a disservice. None of what I think contradicts all the stuff you said (which I accept and believe). Vaguely calling out 'some people' isn't nearly as bad as the berk who tried to suggest that some amongst us would rather have Puel back, but all it does is help the petty he said / she said between factions on here, when in fact all we have (on this subject at least, I think) is varying perceptions on a similar theme. I trust your perceptions (even if our interpretations might differ at times), but I think you can enable better discourse between us by not posting in the slightly provocative style that you (occasionally) do - you're well respected by many on here, it is perhaps unfortunate for you that our knowing your job somewhat raises the standards you're expected to keep here.

 

So maybe I'm being unfair, I don't know. All said with respect and best intentions etc.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

6 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

<snip>

Fair points, made politely, this is my kind of discussion 

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Fair points, made politely, this is my kind of discussion 

You're a gent. The forum would be poorer without you.

[foxile5]

2 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

I appreciate we signed Evans, Maddison and Ricardo (and Soyuncu) while he was in charge.

I appreciate he had to oversee the biggest tragedy in the club's history.

But that's about it.

 

He couldn't man manage the players and staff

He treated players and staff appallingly

He couldn't communicate successfully with anyone, including the fans

Even Mendy, a fellow French speaker, said publicly he didn't always understand his messages

He had no interest in getting fans onside

He was stubborn to the point of pig-headedness

Training sessions were long, repetitive and boring (just like his press interviews) which alienated players

The home form was filth

The football by and large was poor and negative

 

Yes he had to "move us forward" from 2015/16 but for some reason he was determined to tear it to shreds rather than opt for a more smoother transition.

Some people on here are trying to re-write history and/or defend their pro-Puel views from last season.

 

[Obviously I'm defending my anti-Puel views from last season ]

Certainly not a fan of Puel, but I'm not so myopic that I think the bloke was a fraud and anyone supporting him a moron. 

 

Like I say, it didn't work here for him. He didn't fit. That doesn't mean we can acknowledge there were some successes and move on. I'll certainly acknowledge the failures too. 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

18 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Certainly not a fan of Puel, but I'm not so myopic that I think the bloke was a fraud and anyone supporting him a moron. 

Just for the record, and I'm not suggesting you were saying this, but I don't think Puel is a fraud or the people supporting him are morons.

IMHO he wasn't the right fit for us (I don't think he really gets English football) but he's clearly had success elsewhere.

And while I disagree with some of our fans and how they perceive (or perceived) him, I respect their right to those opinions.

It's good we can have some polite debate on here and long may that continue.

[foxile5]

1 minute ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Just for the record, and I'm not suggesting you were saying this, but I don't think Puel is a fraud or the people supporting him are morons.

IMHO he wasn't the right fit for us (I don't think he really gets English football) but he's clearly had success elsewhere.

And while I disagree with some of our fans and how they perceive (or perceived) him, I respect their right to those opinions.

It's good we can have some polite debate on here and long may that continue.

I didn't think you were suggesting that, it was a reference to an earlier post. Some chap was a little agitated by Puel. 

 

I agree - the problem is English football, for Puel. It's not his habitat. It is, however, where I'm sure he sees himself; soon enough he'll wash up at Palace. 

 

I'm glad he's gone, despite the cup runs and the signings he was doing us damage. 

[Koke]

5 hours ago, foxile5 said:

Certainly not a fan of Puel, but I'm not so myopic that I think the bloke was a fraud and anyone supporting him a moron. 

 

Like I say, it didn't work here for him. He didn't fit. That doesn't mean we can acknowledge there were some successes and move on. I'll certainly acknowledge the failures too. 

 

Puel had plenty of faults but the fact remains he left us in a far better position than he found us in + brought down the age of the squad in the process. And for that he has my respect.

 

Had Shakespeare performed exactly as Puel he would be showered with praise on here. 

[Dahnsouff]

Think Puel was the right type but wrong at a personnel level. Looking beyond his demeanour, he did some good, plenty not so good.

The relentless revisionism does get a little wearing, it’s  always best  to review his (and any former manager/player) time with a lack of passion.

Anyhow Claude has left the building, so 

 

Brendan will always get an easier ride, just for the simple fact he talks the talk from a fans perspective.

(Rather than Puel’s mumbl-o-rama approach - lack of perceived passion will always turn fans off)

Edited 22 August 2019 by Dahnsouff

[Swiss_tony]

Personally i  think  the jury is still out on rogers, he might be great, he might just be another pretender with a notebook and some fancy phrases.

What i see as different is we are much  more attack  minded under Rogers.

Puel  was very much  safety first. We knocked it about at the back, but we rarely dominated in the final third or cut defences to  shreds with a killer pass.

with rogers we knock it about with intent to  move the other team  about and then exploit an opening.

I like the cut of rogers jib, but i'd like to  see a full  season of quality football before i hail him as the new messiah.

For all  the good play against Chelsea for 70 mins,  we could've been  3 down after 20 and dead and buried

 

[Foxxed]

Why did they both playing Maddison out wide?

 

(I'm not including when Puel started playing Puel on the left)

[LinekersLugs]

Are we really playing much better than Claude’s time ? 

 

Goals seem hard hard work at the moment 

 

we are playing the crab,  moving sideways constantly 

 

We need a year or two to adjust I feel but we are a very impatient group at the KP 

 

 

 

 

 

[splinterdream]

after the Chelsea game i think, BR was asked what he said at half time for such a turnaround, he said he told them to push further up the pitch, also it was mentioned today in commentary that BR was very vocal tonight a seemed frustrated in the first half, maybe the problem is with the teams mindset and all Brendan can do is keep drilling them and motivating them, after all they're not losing, maybe he thinks our time will come as our fitness and confidence grows

[lgfualol]

Our slow first halves were always blamed on Puel but they havent gone away. Really strange as we used to start every game with real tenacity.

[Freeman's Wharfer]

If we’re looking anything like we could potentially go down and not picking up points over a prolonged period then it’s a valid debate. Until that point, they’re worlds apart and there’s no debate.

[peterborofox]

I wasn't ever a big Puel fan. And criticised him a lot.

 

But if I'm going to be fair then some of the same criticism should be aimed at Rodgers. I was a big fan when he came in, but feel like something isn't right in the way we're playing at the moment. It's not been any different to a Puel side currently this season.

 

Puel was slaughtered for boring football and lack of goals and chances made. It's been no different this season. Same with the slow starts. Same with playing Maddison out wide. 

 

We know our best period of play was second half Vs Chelsea. But this wasn't unlike some of the games with Puel where we started slow and then had a go. Liverpool away was similar last season as was Spurs. 

I thought the performance Vs Wolves was very laboured and lacked ideas. Again only one shot on target. Puel would have been slaughtered for that on here.

 

I do like Rodgers but looking at all the games played this season if you didn't know we had changed manager you could be tricked into thinking Claude was still here. 

 

Hope Brendan finds out his best team and does away with Maddison and Perez out wide. Seems intent on playing narrow which doesn't suit any of our wide players at all.

And the slow starts have been around for a couple of years and we just don't seem to be able to shift them. Hopefully he can crack that too.

 

Even though it took pens tonight I was happy Rodgers went virtually full strength for the cup. That was a major undoing of Claude and cost him three cup ties imo.

 

 

[Mike Oxlong]

30 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

after the Chelsea game i think, BR was asked what he said at half time for such a turnaround, he said he told them to push further up the pitch, also it was mentioned today in commentary that BR was very vocal tonight a seemed frustrated in the first half, maybe the problem is with the teams mindset and all Brendan can do is keep drilling them and motivating them, after all they're not losing, maybe he thinks our time will come as our fitness and confidence grows

 

Maybe this is the root of the problem