Brexit!

[Salisbury Fox]

40 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

No, I can't find a definitive list of who is signed up. And I've just searched the net for the last half an hour. From various articles I know Belgium, Italty, Austria, Germany, Sweden and others that slip my mind now do, and we don't.

Thanks for taking the time to look. I can’t find anything either, that said I am not sure it is as simple as you are indicating and the following link seems to support this assertion: 

http://theconversation.com/when-britain-can-deport-eu-citizens-according-to-the-law-86896

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Well yes that is the other point. That fact that EU immigrants put more into the economy than they take out, and very little evidence that they were a reason behind wages falling or taking jobs off British nationals. But if that's not enough for some and it's not, then it's fair to point out this was possible.

It’s funny how wages are going up now we’ve seen a drop in the supply of labour.

[Strokes]

11 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Well it's been around for over 20 years I believe. People could have campaigned for it if they felt that strongly about immigration. By putting it up as a reason to to leave the EU is placing blame in the wrong place.

I disagree wholeheartedly, I can care about something without campaigning for it. As can will. We were asked a question, and that is the first opportunity we had in 20 years to vote on that particular piece of legislation. It’s entirely valid.

[Facecloth]

7 minutes ago, Salisbury Fox said:

Thanks for taking the time to look. I can’t find anything either, that said I am not sure it is as simple as you are indicating and the following link seems to support this assertion: 

http://theconversation.com/when-britain-can-deport-eu-citizens-according-to-the-law-86896

That's talking about those here now, who've lived and worked here. They are missing the part about being able to deport them 3 months after arrival if they don't have a job or funds. If you google that EU directive there are plenty of articles on it, and official documents, that article you link conviniently leaves out. What's thats talking about is deporting those already here, and we can't turn back the clock. 

[Facecloth]

5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I disagree wholeheartedly, I can care about something without campaigning for it. As can will. We were asked a question, and that is the first opportunity we had in 20 years to vote on that particular piece of legislation. It’s entirely valid.

But you're blaming the wrong organisation. You're blaming the EU for the UK's failings. You obviously didn't care enough as you sat there watching it happen, blaming the wrong people and never asking the question of the people who could answer it. People talk about sovereignty and then when we don't implement our sovereign right, they blame someone else. You vote in GEs, these people work for us, as you keep telling is when you complain they haven't implement brexit yet, but it never crossed your mind to ask they why they weren't doing somethine about what you felt strongly was one of the countries biggest problems, and something the Tories had promised to get under control in numerous manifestos.

[SheppyFox]

3 hours ago, Lionator said:

In what sense is it not working?

Have you been to any of the major countries that contribute to the EU recently? 

[Salisbury Fox]

3 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

That's talking about those here now, who've lived and worked here. They are missing the part about being able to deport them 3 months after arrival if they don't have a job or funds. If you google that EU directive there are plenty of articles on it, and official documents, that article you link conviniently leaves out. What's thats talking about is deporting those already here, and we can't turn back the clock. 

This other article regarding what Cameron negotiated also highlights the difficulties with the link to Job Seekers Allowance (JSA).  So whilst they cannot claim JSA within the first 3 months of arrival, they can subsequently claim for a total of 91 days over several periods of job seeking.  Surely you can see how this can be abused and thus makes enforcement difficult? This is of course without considering the staff required to process deportations, including legal challenges.

 

Btw I am not disputing that EU nationals make an important contribution to our economy, I am just not convinced that it is as easy to deport them as it is often suggested. 

[Carl the Llama]

2 hours ago, BlueSi13 said:

No evidence of Russian meddling on Facebook to influence Brexit vote.  That's from Nick Clegg of all people.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/facebook-nick-clegg-russia-interference-brexit-eu-referendum-a8971656.html

 

Remain MP's are not 'negotiating with our political allies' (I thought we Brexiteers were supposed to be naive ).  This is a clear attempt to undermine their own British government to sink negotiations so as to extend and potentially stop Brexit.  

 

Tell me how this bill is in the countries best negotiating interests?  How will this help us secure a better deal? How will handing the EU the power to determine when we may leave (with conditions attached) positively impact us?  

Quote

 

The former deputy prime minister said the social media company had analysed its data and found no “significant attempt by outside forces” to sway the Brexit vote.

He also dismissed suggestions that Cambridge Analytica, which harvested the data of up to 87 million Facebook users, had influenced the UK’s decision to leave the EU

 

You actually believe that, yet you have the nerve to call me naive?  Come on now, pal, Russian troll farms and their involvement in disseminating pro-Brexit propaganda is an irrefutable fact.  Choosing to cover your ears won't change that.  Clearly it's had its desired effect too seeing how you consider the EU member states to be adversarial forces as far as we're concerned (I can't think of any other reason why you'd be so amused at me referring to them as allies), if that's the case then outside of the troubled USA who exactly are our 'friends' on the international stage in your opinion?

[Carl the Llama]

Whose wages have gone up? 

Edited 7 September 2019 by Carl the Llama
Spelling

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, SheppyFox said:

Have you been to any of the major countries that contribute to the EU recently? 

Yep, Germany, Spain and Italy all in the past year. All seem in good shape, even Italy which has a tonne of non-EU related issues.

[simFox]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

...which I'm sure had just as much influence on the overall situation as the newspaper article did. That's rather my point.

 

 

Eh? What newspaper article?

 

Hold on, Isis have just called, brb.

[leicsmac]

Just now, simFox said:

Eh? What newspaper article?

 

Hold on, Isis have just called, brb.

The one that BlueSi posted talking about the remain-supporting MP's talking to the EU.

 

My point is that both sides of the campaign used foreign resources to influence their side of the vote and there's not an awful lot to pick between them (either both of them had influence or neither), so posting an article pointing fingers at one campaign or the other just looks hypocritical.

[SheppyFox]

55 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Yep, Germany, Spain and Italy all in the past year. All seem in good shape, even Italy which has a tonne of non-EU related issues.

Spain isn’t too bad, Germany is entering recession, Italy has a ruined banking sector, Greece is effectively now a country of the third world, Holland isn’t too bad, the euro itself is weaker still than a project fear weakened pound. We’ll agree to disagree as leave and remain always do.

 

edit;

 

How could I forget France? The verge of their own financial crisis. Unfortunately in my mind the EU is in need of a massive reform if it is to survive. It’s issues will only be further compounded by Britain’s success outside of the bloc. 

Edited 7 September 2019 by SheppyFox

[Lionator]

15 minutes ago, SheppyFox said:

Spain isn’t too bad, Germany is entering recession, Italy has a ruined banking sector, Greece is effectively now a country of the third world, Holland isn’t too bad, the euro itself is weaker still than a project fear weakened pound. We’ll agree to disagree as leave and remain always do.

 

edit;

 

How could I forget France? The verge of their own financial crisis. Unfortunately in my mind the EU is in need of a massive reform if it is to survive. It’s issues will only be further compounded by Britain’s success outside of the bloc. 

I agree with the second to last sentence to an extent, I vehemently disagree with the final one. But yes we shall agree to disagree.

[simFox]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

The one that BlueSi posted talking about the remain-supporting MP's talking to the EU.

 

My point is that both sides of the campaign used foreign resources to influence their side of the vote and there's not an awful lot to pick between them (either both of them had influence or neither), so posting an article pointing fingers at one campaign or the other just looks hypocritical.

Both sides have lied, they're all using every dirty trick in the book, fundamentally it all comes down to the result of the referendum and further back than that, the willingness of politicians to implement it in the first place. The problems didn't start until they lost. 

 

 

[Heathrow fox]

3 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Whose wages have gone up? 

Whilst it can be argued that Brexit hasn’t been great for the construction industry,average wages in the trades have rocketed since the referendum result.

[bovril]

2 hours ago, SheppyFox said:

Spain isn’t too bad, Germany is entering recession, Italy has a ruined banking sector, Greece is effectively now a country of the third world, Holland isn’t too bad, the euro itself is weaker still than a project fear weakened pound. We’ll agree to disagree as leave and remain always do.

 

edit;

 

How could I forget France? The verge of their own financial crisis. Unfortunately in my mind the EU is in need of a massive reform if it is to survive. It’s issues will only be further compounded by Britain’s success outside of the bloc. 

Spain has progressed unbelievably since dictatorship. Germany should manage a recession better than we will. Greeks would vote 75% to stay in the EU, I reckon. The Dutch could do pretty well out of Brexit. Fluctuations of the pound are not influenced by stories in the Guardian. 

[WigstonWanderer]

2 hours ago, SheppyFox said:

Spain isn’t too bad, Germany is entering recession, Italy has a ruined banking sector, Greece is effectively now a country of the third world, Holland isn’t too bad, the euro itself is weaker still than a project fear weakened pound. We’ll agree to disagree as leave and remain always do.

 

edit;

 

How could I forget France? The verge of their own financial crisis. Unfortunately in my mind the EU is in need of a massive reform if it is to survive. It’s issues will only be further compounded by Britain’s success outside of the bloc. 

The pound was trading at over 1.40 euros prior to calling the referendum. Now around 1.11 euros, a 20% fall.

[Beechey]

 

[SheppyFox]

45 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

The pound was trading at over 1.40 euros prior to calling the referendum. Now around 1.11 euros, a 20% fall.

Yes, the pound is still stronger than the euro.

[Legend_in_blue]

3 minutes ago, Beechey said:

 

Sinking ship.

 

This will only lead to a single conclusion, Boris' resignation.

[Beechey]

54 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

The pound was trading at over 1.40 euros prior to calling the referendum. Now around 1.11 euros, a 20% fall.

Only if you focus on the spike before the referendum. Between 2008 and 2014 it was hovering generally between €1.02-€1.20.

 

Edited 7 September 2019 by Beechey

[st albans fox]

10 minutes ago, SheppyFox said:

Yes, the pound is still stronger than the euro.

 

5 minutes ago, Beechey said:

Only if you focus on the spike before the referendum. Between 2008 and 2013 it was hovering generally between €1.02-€1.20.

 

Sorry chaps but any idea that sterling hasn’t dropped around 20 % in comparison to the period before 2016 is living in lala land - the strength of the euro has fluctuated a lot over time  due to the dramas in the eurozone - check out sterling against a basket of currencies rather than a particular one . 

[Beechey]

5 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

 

Sorry chaps but any idea that sterling hasn’t dropped around 20 % in comparison to the period before 2016 is living in lala land - the strength of the euro has fluctuated a lot over time  due to the dramas in the eurozone - check out sterling against a basket of currencies rather than a particular one . 

"... before 2016" includes almost all of human history, mate.

If you mean between 2014 and 2016, then you are right, otherwise, you're not.

 

If anyone thinks Brexit hasn't had an adverse affect on Sterling, they're wrong. However, Sterling has been rocky since 2008.

Edited 7 September 2019 by Beechey

[srex9]

1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

The pound was trading at over 1.40 euros prior to calling the referendum. Now around 1.11 euros, a 20% fall.

Works both ways though. My friends business has boomed since the pound dropped as his products are now cheaper to buy.