Premier Leagues Sleeping Giants

[Sly]

Are Leicester City a sleeping giant? Are we a big club in the making .....

 

Financial accounting for a football club must be a nightmare, as I’m not sure how you value your assets, such as players. Some dodgy accounting goes on I’d guess! 

 

Ultimately turnover gives you a feel for the size of a club. Unfortunately just because you’ve had historic success, doesn’t mean you will again. Sunderland have won as many titles as Chelsea! Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds, Derby, Huddlesfield, Blackburn, Preston and Burnley, have all won more top tier titles than Leicester. Big club elite-ism is just media perception. 

 

As a player, looking to join a club, how do you judge the intangible things like culture, morale etc

 

Why would Brendan or any other player want to leave? Is any other club more / less likely to be successful than us?

 

Just a few facts on each club:

 

Arsenal

Owner: Stan Kroenke

Walmart Owner

Worth: $9.7b

Capacity: 60,704

Turnover £403m

Profit before tax: £70m

Squad value: £615.38m

 

Aston Villa

Owners: Nassef Sawris / Wesley Eden’s Fortress Investment

Worth: $9.2b

Capacity: 42,095

Turnover: £64.6m

Profit before tax: £32.2m loss

Squad value: £171.90m

 

Bournemouth

Owner: Maxim Denim

Petrochemicals Trading

Worth: $700m

Capacity: 11,364

Turnover: £135m

Profit before tax: £11m loss

Squad value: £300.83m

 

Brighton HA

Owner: Tony Bloom

Online Gambler / Property

Worth: $1.7b

Capacity: 30,750

Turnover: £139m

Profit before tax: £12m

Squad value: £195.39m

 

Burnley

Owner: Mike Garlick

Michael Bailey Freight Associates

Worth: $80m

Capacity: 21,944

Turnover: £139m

Profit before tax: £45m

Squad value: £178.88m

 

Chelsea

Owner: Roman Abramovich

Oil / Steel industry

Worth: $12.9b

Capacity: 40,034

Turnover: £448m

Profit before tax: £30m

Squad value: £726.3m

 

Crystal Palace

Owner: Steve Parish

Tag Worldwide Investment

Worth: $3.9b

Capacity: 24,486

Turnover: £150m 

Profit before tax: £36m Loss

Squad value: £212.90m

 

Everton

Owner: Farhad Moshiri

Steel and Energy

Worth: $2b

Capacity: 39,414

Turnover: £145m

Profit before tax: £13m loss

Squad value: £455.4m

 

Leicester City

Owner : Srivaddhanprabha Family

King Power Group

Worth: $5.9b

Capacity: 32,261

Turnover: £159m

Profit before tax: £2m

Squad value: £369.23m

 

Liverpool

Owner: Fenway Sports Group

Worth: $2.7b

Capacity: 53,394

Turnover: £455m

Profit before tax: £125m

Squad value: £965.03m

 

Manchester City

Owner: Monsour Bin Zayed Al Nayhan

Abu Dabhi United Group

Worth: $22b

Capacity: 55,017

Turnover: £500m

Profit before tax: £10m

Squad value: £1.15b

 

Manchester United

Owner: Glazer Family

First Allied Corporation

Worth: $4.9b

Capacity: 74,872

Turnover: £590m

Profit before tax: £26m

Squad value: £677.93m

 

Newcastle United

Owner: Mike Ashley

Sports Direct

Worth: $2.8b

Capacity: 52,304

Turnover: £178m

Profit before tax: £32m

Squad value: £246.22m

 

Norwich City

Owner: Delia Smith / Michael Wynn Jones

Good industry / Publishing / Poultry

Worth: £30m

Capacity: 27,359

Turnover: £33.7m

Profit before tax: £38m loss

Squad value: £109.44m

 

Sheffield United

Owner: Abdullah Bin Musa’ed

Saudi Manufacturing Co

Worth: $255m

Capacity: 32,125

Turnover: £20m

Profit before tax: £1.9m loss

Squad value: £82.31m

 

Southampton

Owner: Gao Jisheng

Lander Sports Development

Worth: $4b

Capacity: 32,384

Turnover: £153m

Profit before tax: £35m

Squad value: £213.30m

 

Tottenham Hotspur

Owner: Joe Lewis / Daniel Levy

Currency Trading

Worth: $6.2b

Capacity: 62,062

Turnover: £381m

Profit before tax: £139m

Squad value: £885.6m

 

Watford

Owner: Gino Pozzo

Investment

Worth: $120m

Capacity: 22,200

Turnover: £138m

Profit before tax: £22m loss

Squad value: £212.72m

 

West Ham United

Owners: David Sullivan / David Gold

Daily / Sunday Sport & Gold Group
Worth: $1.9b

Capacity: 60,000

Turnover: £175m

Profit before tax: £18m

Squad value: £313.88m

 

Wolverhampton Wanderers

Owner: Guo Guangchang

Fosun International

Worth: $5.9b

Capacity: 32,050

Turnover: £26.4m

Profit before tax: £55m loss

Squad value: £300.38m

[Guest Markyblue]

Everton squad worth 90 million more than ours in which parallel universe is that then.

[shailen]

From a financial accounting point of view, players are valued as intangible assets. They are valued at their contract value which is written down each year. So a player on 10m a year on a 5 year contract would be valued at 50m when he signs the contract and each year 10m is written off the balance sheet.

[Dirkster the Fox]

Whilst I like the point of your article, you've got you valuations massively out of line.

 

Chelsea worth over £12 billion and Burnley £80 million. Realy???

 

All wrong anyway:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2019/07/22/the-worlds-50-most-valuable-sports-teams-2019/

[coolhandfox]

8 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

Whilst I like the point of your article, you've got you valuations massively out of line.

 

Chelsea worth over £12 billion and Burnley £80 million. Realy???

 

All wrong anyway:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2019/07/22/the-worlds-50-most-valuable-sports-teams-2019/

He's stating the owner's wealth not the clubs worth! 

[bovril]

We are neither a footballing giant, nor are we currently sleeping. What we've done in the last few years is something I thought I may never see in English football, a historically medium-sized club mixing it with the big boys without spending billions. 

[urban.spaceman]

Wealth doesn’t really mean anything to be honest. Yes, Chelsea and Man City have used their owner’s money to effectively buy their way into the top 4, but they’ve also broken a shit ton of rules to do it, and are getting caught out. 
 

But we’ve done it without spending obscenely. Vichai barely put any money in because FFP wouldn’t allow us to do the same as Chelsea or Man City, and because we tried spending big under Sven and that backfired spectacularly. 
 

Vichai gave us his time, business expertise and love, not money. That’s what defines us, this quote:

 

“Our spirit exists because of the love we share for each other and the energy it helps to create, both on and off the pitch. And in the years to come it will continue to be our greatest asset.”

 

Our club record signing up until Ulloa in 2014 was STILL Ade Akinbiyi at £5.5m from back in 2000. The team we won the league with cost less than what elite clubs spend on one player. Even after winning the league we couldn’t progress because we were hindered by STCC (Short Term Cost Control - designed to stop clubs spending beyond their means on wages based on a percentage of their wages the previous season; meaning still we couldn’t compete with big clubs). 
 

Our winnings from the Premier League and Champions League have gone straight back on our squad and eventually training ground. We bought Kante, Drinkwater, Mahrez and Maguire for less than £20m combined, and sold them for £219m - only to be above all of them in the league. 
 

No, we've done this without spending money that we haven’t earned and are in the top 4 on pure merit. The way things should be. 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

41 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Wealth doesn’t really mean anything to be honest. Yes, Chelsea and Man City have used their owner’s money to effectively buy their way into the top 4, but they’ve also broken a shit ton of rules to do it, and are getting caught out. 
 

But we’ve done it without spending obscenely. Vichai barely put any money in because FFP wouldn’t allow us to do the same as Chelsea or Man City, and because we tried spending big under Sven and that backfired spectacularly. 
 

Vichai gave us his time, business expertise and love, not money. That’s what defines us, this quote:

 

“Our spirit exists because of the love we share for each other and the energy it helps to create, both on and off the pitch. And in the years to come it will continue to be our greatest asset.”

 

Our club record signing up until Ulloa in 2014 was STILL Ade Akinbiyi at £5.5m from back in 2000. The team we won the league with cost less than what elite clubs spend on one player. Even after winning the league we couldn’t progress because we were hindered by STCC (Short Term Cost Control - designed to stop clubs spending beyond their means on wages based on a percentage of their wages the previous season; meaning still we couldn’t compete with big clubs). 
 

Our winnings from the Premier League and Champions League have gone straight back on our squad and eventually training ground. We bought Kante, Drinkwater, Mahrez and Maguire for less than £20m combined, and sold them for £219m - only to be above all of them in the league. 
 

No, we've done this without spending money that we haven’t earned and are in the top 4 on pure merit. The way things should be. 

Your modern day footballing franchises really, "big clubs" if the term even means anything anymore simply due to someone pumping millions into them and then marketing them well around the world.  History that has been bought essentially.  If I were a Leicester fan I wouldn't swap your one premier league win for a 100 of Chelsea and Man City's as it flew in the face of all that is wrong with modern football today and it was the mark of proper history and has set your club on an upward trajectory in terms of ambition, potential and exposure for all the right reasons.

 

A sleeping giant to me is a club with a rich history, fairly sizeable and passionate fanbase, who are underperforming but retain the potential to be one of the top sides again, someone like Aston Villa would spring to mind. The thing is though, a lot of these clubs will never reach the halcyon days of their glory years again, football moves too fast these days.

 

Leicester I'd say are definitely not a sleeping giant but more a club on the up and a club making their own history in a refreshing way, far removed from clubs who seek to manufacture history and success through spending power only.

 

I'm loathed to even use the term big club nowadays as I believe by it's very definition it's antiquated and irrelevant.  I'll use my own club as an example, in terms of fan base, global exposure and presence, honours we are a massive club.  However, football has changed so dramatically that the aforementioned is less relevant as success and potential now is more strongly correlated to finance and the environment in which you play (or trade) in.  Bournemouth being the example, you could go on all day saying Celtic are a bigger club than Bournemouth, of course they are, at least according to the antiquated criteria of a "big club", but in reality that all means nothing when despite playing in front of 16000 fans every week, never winning any trophies, never playing European football, 99% of players would choose to join Bournemouth ahead of Celtic for well understood reasons.

Edited 3 December 2019 by henrik_62

[ARM1968]

Maddison, Chillwell and Ricky P are worth that alone. What a load of muppetry. 

[twoleftfeet]

The value of the club and players and chairman are irrelevant because:

As 2015/2016 proves you don't need the most expensive squad and indeed often the best players at a club aren't the ones signed for a fortune but one that have come through the ranks or sign for a club early in their careers Stevie G at Liverpool, Fat frank at Chelsea Beckham at Manu.

It doesn't matter how much money the chairman is worth if he doesn't want to spend any money then does it matter if he is worth a £1 million or £100 Billion.

Squad value it doesn't matter if you have 30 players worth £30 million each you can unless they have changed the rules play 11 at a time and as Everton under Walsh did buy every midfielder that was available it didn't help they didn't have a balance in the squad.

and players value is subjective Harry Maguire value to sign £80 million wages 3 times what he was paid last year is he A worth 3 or 4 times more than we paid for him this year when his performances have been worse than last year. Is Soyuncu's value now with his stellar performances the same as last year or as he has one less year on his contract less than last year.

Are we a sleeping GIANT or just a mid size club from the midlands that at this present moment in time extremely well run  and about to gate crash the top size teams in the premiere league and establish our selves as contenders for champions league football season after season. We are a family club and should aim to remain a family club the only thing that counts is the position in the league

Massive club doesn't equal success ask any Geordie

[Izzy]

No, we’re nothing like a sleeping giant.

 

We could be a ‘ biggish’ club in the making if we ever get the stadium expanded.

 

Regular CL football in a 47,000 capacity KP Stadium would make us an even more attractive proposition than we already are.

[Nicolo Barella]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

No, we’re nothing like a sleeping giant.

 

We could be a ‘ biggish’ club in the making if we ever get the stadium expanded.

 

Regular CL football in a 47,000 capacity KP Stadium would make us an even more attractive proposition than we already are.

What's the current capacity again?

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

I don't think we’ll ever be a giant

Edited 3 December 2019 by Mark 'expert' Lawrenson

[Raw Dykes]

16 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

What's the current capacity again?

32,500. I think that's rounded off.

[Nicolo Barella]

1 hour ago, Raw Dykes said:

32,500. I think that's rounded off.

47k sounds good then yeah

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

I do t think we’ll ever be a giant.

Don’t think I ever want us to be a Giant Lawro.

 

I like us just how we are (and a bigger stadium would be great)

[Stadt]

I think we’ve always had some unrealised potential, we’re the second biggest one-club city in England after Leeds. Beyond city borders, we’ve got a fairly big catchment area too without even any ‘medium’ sized clubs to our south or east for about 100 miles. Population size means relatively little in terms of winning owt though, just look at Bristol and south London clubs’ honours lists.

 

Once our ground is expanded to ~42k, I think the perception around us will shift a little bit.

[Raw Dykes]

38 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

47k sounds good then yeah

The leaked plans said 40k minimum, I think. I'm hoping it will be around 42k - a tad bigger than Villa Park.

 

I think we're planning to extend just the east stand, initially. I think the Kop could also be expanded in the future if needed.

[Nalis]

14 minutes ago, Stadt said:

I think we’ve always had some unrealised potential, we’re the second biggest one-club city in England after Leeds. Beyond city borders, we’ve got a fairly big catchment area too without even any ‘medium’ sized clubs to our south or east for about 100 miles. Population size means relatively little in terms of winning owt though, just look at Bristol and south London clubs’ honours lists.

 

Once our ground is expanded to ~42k, I think the perception around us will shift a little bit.

Newcastle?

[yorkie1999]

18 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

The leaked plans said 40k minimum, I think. I'm hoping it will be around 42k - a tad bigger than Villa Park.

 

I think we're planning to extend just the east stand, initially. I think the Kop could also be expanded in the future if needed.

And Stamford Bridge.

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 hours ago, henrik_62 said:

Your modern day footballing franchises really, "big clubs" if the term even means anything anymore simply due to someone pumping millions into them and then marketing them well around the world.  History that has been bought essentially.  If I were a Leicester fan I wouldn't swap your one premier league win for a 100 of Chelsea and Man City's as it flew in the face of all that is wrong with modern football today and it was the mark of proper history and has set your club on an upward trajectory in terms of ambition, potential and exposure for all the right reasons.

 

A sleeping giant to me is a club with a rich history, fairly sizeable and passionate fanbase, who are underperforming but retain the potential to be one of the top sides again, someone like Aston Villa would spring to mind. The thing is though, a lot of these clubs will never reach the halcyon days of their glory years again, football moves too fast these days.

 

Leicester I'd say are definitely not a sleeping giant but more a club on the up and a club making their own history in a refreshing way, far removed from clubs who seek to manufacture history and success through spending power only.

 

I'm loathed to even use the term big club nowadays as I believe by it's very definition it's antiquated and irrelevant.  I'll use my own club as an example, in terms of fan base, global exposure and presence, honours we are a massive club.  However, football has changed so dramatically that the aforementioned is less relevant as success and potential now is more strongly correlated to finance and the environment in which you play (or trade) in.  Bournemouth being the example, you could go on all day saying Celtic are a bigger club than Bournemouth, of course they are, at least according to the antiquated criteria of a "big club", but in reality that all means nothing when despite playing in front of 16000 fans every week, never winning any trophies, never playing European football, 99% of players would choose to join Bournemouth ahead of Celtic for well understood reasons.

Considering you signed up cos we nicked your manager, it's amazing that you've become one of my favourite posters.

 

[Stadt]

24 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Newcastle?

Big metro area but the city itself has a relatively small population. Population statistics are a bit of a nightmare, really semantic.

[Dorkingfox]

9 hours ago, Sly said:

Are Leicester City a sleeping giant? Are we a big club in the making .....

 

Financial accounting for a football club must be a nightmare, as I’m not sure how you value your assets, such as players. Some dodgy accounting goes on I’d guess! 

 

Ultimately turnover gives you a feel for the size of a club. Unfortunately just because you’ve had historic success, doesn’t mean you will again. Sunderland have won as many titles as Chelsea! Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds, Derby, Huddlesfield, Blackburn, Preston and Burnley, have all won more top tier titles than Leicester. Big club elite-ism is just media perception. 

 

As a player, looking to join a club, how do you judge the intangible things like culture, morale etc

 

Why would Brendan or any other player want to leave? Is any other club more / less likely to be successful than us?

 

Just a few facts on each club:

 

Arsenal

Owner: Stan Kroenke

Walmart Owner

Worth: $9.7b

Capacity: 60,704

Turnover £403m

Profit before tax: £70m

Squad value: £615.38m

 

Aston Villa

Owners: Nassef Sawris / Wesley Eden’s Fortress Investment

Worth: $9.2b

Capacity: 42,095

Turnover: £64.6m

Profit before tax: £32.2m loss

Squad value: £171.90m

 

Bournemouth

Owner: Maxim Denim

Petrochemicals Trading

Worth: $700m

Capacity: 11,364

Turnover: £135m

Profit before tax: £11m loss

Squad value: £300.83m

 

Brighton HA

Owner: Tony Bloom

Online Gambler / Property

Worth: $1.7b

Capacity: 30,750

Turnover: £139m

Profit before tax: £12m

Squad value: £195.39m

 

Burnley

Owner: Mike Garlick

Michael Bailey Freight Associates

Worth: $80m

Capacity: 21,944

Turnover: £139m

Profit before tax: £45m

Squad value: £178.88m

 

Chelsea

Owner: Roman Abramovich

Oil / Steel industry

Worth: $12.9b

Capacity: 40,034

Turnover: £448m

Profit before tax: £30m

Squad value: £726.3m

 

Crystal Palace

Owner: Steve Parish

Tag Worldwide Investment

Worth: $3.9b

Capacity: 24,486

Turnover: £150m 

Profit before tax: £36m Loss

Squad value: £212.90m

 

Everton

Owner: Farhad Moshiri

Steel and Energy

Worth: $2b

Capacity: 39,414

Turnover: £145m

Profit before tax: £13m loss

Squad value: £455.4m

 

Leicester City

Owner : Srivaddhanprabha Family

King Power Group

Worth: $5.9b

Capacity: 32,261

Turnover: £159m

Profit before tax: £2m

Squad value: £369.23m

 

Liverpool

Owner: Fenway Sports Group

Worth: $2.7b

Capacity: 53,394

Turnover: £455m

Profit before tax: £125m

Squad value: £965.03m

 

Manchester City

Owner: Monsour Bin Zayed Al Nayhan

Abu Dabhi United Group

Worth: $22b

Capacity: 55,017

Turnover: £500m

Profit before tax: £10m

Squad value: £1.15b

 

Manchester United

Owner: Glazer Family

First Allied Corporation

Worth: $4.9b

Capacity: 74,872

Turnover: £590m

Profit before tax: £26m

Squad value: £677.93m

 

Newcastle United

Owner: Mike Ashley

Sports Direct

Worth: $2.8b

Capacity: 52,304

Turnover: £178m

Profit before tax: £32m

Squad value: £246.22m

 

Norwich City

Owner: Delia Smith / Michael Wynn Jones

Good industry / Publishing / Poultry

Worth: £30m

Capacity: 27,359

Turnover: £33.7m

Profit before tax: £38m loss

Squad value: £109.44m

 

Sheffield United

Owner: Abdullah Bin Musa’ed

Saudi Manufacturing Co

Worth: $255m

Capacity: 32,125

Turnover: £20m

Profit before tax: £1.9m loss

Squad value: £82.31m

 

Southampton

Owner: Gao Jisheng

Lander Sports Development

Worth: $4b

Capacity: 32,384

Turnover: £153m

Profit before tax: £35m

Squad value: £213.30m

 

Tottenham Hotspur

Owner: Joe Lewis / Daniel Levy

Currency Trading

Worth: $6.2b

Capacity: 62,062

Turnover: £381m

Profit before tax: £139m

Squad value: £885.6m

 

Watford

Owner: Gino Pozzo

Investment

Worth: $120m

Capacity: 22,200

Turnover: £138m

Profit before tax: £22m loss

Squad value: £212.72m

 

West Ham United

Owners: David Sullivan / David Gold

Daily / Sunday Sport & Gold Group
Worth: $1.9b

Capacity: 60,000

Turnover: £175m

Profit before tax: £18m

Squad value: £313.88m

 

Wolverhampton Wanderers

Owner: Guo Guangchang

Fosun International

Worth: $5.9b

Capacity: 32,050

Turnover: £26.4m

Profit before tax: £55m loss

Squad value: £300.38m

Not certain how the Chelsea squad can be worth more than double the Foxes?

[Dorkingfox]

3 hours ago, henrik_62 said:

Your modern day footballing franchises really, "big clubs" if the term even means anything anymore simply due to someone pumping millions into them and then marketing them well around the world.  History that has been bought essentially.  If I were a Leicester fan I wouldn't swap your one premier league win for a 100 of Chelsea and Man City's as it flew in the face of all that is wrong with modern football today and it was the mark of proper history and has set your club on an upward trajectory in terms of ambition, potential and exposure for all the right reasons.

 

A sleeping giant to me is a club with a rich history, fairly sizeable and passionate fanbase, who are underperforming but retain the potential to be one of the top sides again, someone like Aston Villa would spring to mind. The thing is though, a lot of these clubs will never reach the halcyon days of their glory years again, football moves too fast these days.

 

Leicester I'd say are definitely not a sleeping giant but more a club on the up and a club making their own history in a refreshing way, far removed from clubs who seek to manufacture history and success through spending power only.

 

I'm loathed to even use the term big club nowadays as I believe by it's very definition it's antiquated and irrelevant.  I'll use my own club as an example, in terms of fan base, global exposure and presence, honours we are a massive club.  However, football has changed so dramatically that the aforementioned is less relevant as success and potential now is more strongly correlated to finance and the environment in which you play (or trade) in.  Bournemouth being the example, you could go on all day saying Celtic are a bigger club than Bournemouth, of course they are, at least according to the antiquated criteria of a "big club", but in reality that all means nothing when despite playing in front of 16000 fans every week, never winning any trophies, never playing European football, 99% of players would choose to join Bournemouth ahead of Celtic for well understood reasons.

Sounds comments

[Guest An Sionnach]

Bournemouth , Poole , Christchurch is a very big conglomeration about 400,000 people so why they continue to use a tiny stadium I just don't know . It must lose them a fortune in gate money. Big clubs have big stadiums and the sooner we increase capacity to 40,000 the better.