Rogers tactics

[cruzFOX]

Just curious to hear if anyone else is slightly concerned about how poorly BR has set the team up against city and pool. I’ve been a big fan of his thus far and he’s looked better than managers below us but against pep and klopp it feels like he’s come up short on smart ideas. In fact I’ve never seen a rival manager like pep snd klopp look so happy to play against the foxes. It’s like they totally had him sussed out before and during the game! Should we expect better from BR considering how much praise has been lavished on him. Don’t get me wrong I know we’re a young project with a lot of ability and potential but like ranieri used to say ‘if you know you can’t win a game than don’t lose it’.

[Aus Fox]

5 minutes ago, cruzFOX said:

Just curious to hear if anyone else is slightly concerned about how poorly BR has set the team up against city and pool. I’ve been a big fan of his thus far and he’s looked better than managers below us but against pep and klopp it feels like he’s come up short on smart ideas. In fact I’ve never seen a rival manager like pep snd klopp look so happy to play against the foxes. It’s like they totally had him sussed out before and during the game! Should we expect better from BR considering how much praise has been lavished on him. Don’t get me wrong I know we’re a young project with a lot of ability and potential but like ranieri used to say ‘if you know you can’t win a game than don’t lose it’.

TBF we’ve just played the world/ European Champions and the Premier League Champions who have two of the best managers in the world spending a combined 2 billion quid along the way, and built teams over years.

When he gets out thought by Moyes, Smith or Hodgson on a regular basis we have a problem.

[Charl91]

15 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

TBF we’ve just played the world/ European Champions and the Premier League Champions who have two of the best managers in the world spending a combined 2 billion quid along the way, and built teams over years.

When he gets out thought by Moyes, Smith or Hodgson on a regular basis we have a problem.

Yeah, that is true, but it's not the defeats (which were expected) that are the issue, but the embarrassing manner in which we rolled over and showed our soft underbelly. Let's face it - if both teams are on form, then we're not going to win. We don't have that quality. But we could have at least put up a fight, and there have been many (if not most) teams this season with far worse squads that have looked much more convincing than we did. To me, that suggests it's at least partly a tactical issue.

[Kopfkino]

I mean you can't fail to be worried that the set up he chose in the last two games gave the creative lynchpins and assist monsters for both teams the freedom of the pitch. I mean its quite incredible that for two games running we've had Maddison up against (or in reality getting nowhere near) De Bruyne and the TAA.

[ScouseFox]

26 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

TBF we’ve just played the world/ European Champions and the Premier League Champions who have two of the best managers in the world spending a combined 2 billion quid along the way, and built teams over years.

When he gets out thought by Moyes, Smith or Hodgson on a regular basis we have a problem.

but that is a bit of a rubbish excuse when we’ve played like we have. we’re not losing to these teams because they are the best teams in the world, we are losing to them because we are literally letting them do what they want. 

 

pearson went to anfield last week and looked at the opposition and went ok, they are better than us, but these are the areas they are good at and we will try and stop they literally anally raping us. we looked at both teams and played the exact teams they wanted us to play to give them the best chance of anally raping us. 

 

it’s weird AF. i’ve no issues with rodgers, i think everything he’s done here has been has been almost perfect. but for some reason when we play a team who are probably favourites against us we literally give up before it’s even started. 

 

with the lack of a left winger today we may as well have just simmed the game fifa style and moved onto the next one. their most dangerous players are salah and trent if he’s given time and we gave both of them the freedom of not even half the pitch, but literally the full pitch. it was in a weird way quite nice when trent scores that fourth goal because surely that absolutely rams home the fact we cannot play this absolutely horrid formation ever again. 

 

but then again i think we thought that after last week and we did the exact same thing again. that’s my only concern. and it’s a big concern. if rodgers can watch the norwich game and the city game and then think yeah this might work against liverpool, who are the best team possibly of all time at using their full backs to kill the opposition, and still play with nobody trying to stop their full backs, then we have a much bigger problem than anyone thought. 

Edited 27 December 2019 by ScouseFox

[Chrysalis]

Its a known weakness with Rodgers, Celtic and Liverpool fans have said it.

 

If he can carry on winning against the bottom 14 (only norwich, wolves we dropped points), then we are best off with him.

 

We need to get a win probably against Chelsea though when we next play them given the 4 points we dropped and the fact we are very unlikely to beat Man City in the second fixture.

[Guest SO1]

Thread is exactly what I suspected. Thought without knowledge. Be nice if we could come up with a few tactics based questions to be asked by our resident

TalkSport Rep. @UpTheLeagueFoxGeoff? of Rodgers or his associates. Especially in regards to setting up to play clubs that play a highline.

[Plastik Man]

5 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

 

with the lack of a left winger today we may as well have just simmed the game fifa style and moved onto the next one. their most dangerous players are salah and trent if he’s given time and we gave both of them the freedom of not even half the pitch, but literally the full pitch. it was in a weird way quite nice when trent scores that fourth goal because surely that absolutely rams home the fact we cannot play this absolutely horrid formation ever again. 

 

but then again i think we thought that after last week and we did the exact same thing again. that’s my only concern. and it’s a big concern. if rodgers can watch the norwich game and the city game and then think yeah this might work against liverpool, who are the best team possibly of all time at using their full backs to kill the opposition, and still play with nobody trying to stop their full backs, then we have a much bigger problem than anyone thought. 

Questionable tactics yes, but I think you've touched on a real problem.

 

Do we have a left winger in the squad? It's been said often enough we need more (goals) from our wide men, and that Chilwell doesn't get enough protection in front of him from Barnes or Maddison. But who else can we play there? Allbrighton? He's often come on on the right, but doesn't add any real goal threat either.

 

 

[shailen]

Not concerned but think he was too ambitious in both games thinking we would outplay both teams and didn't deal with the obvious threat in either. 

 

Remember he was slated earlier this season when he played hamza against united away but it was that tough, aggressive player that we were missing in both games to stop the likes of de bruyne and Alexander Arnold getting the ball into the box. It's funny that our left hand side has been our downfall in both games, with no protection for Chilwell in either. 

 

I think now is not the time to panic but I would like us to set up much more defensively against these sort of sides. Keep the same formation for the so called easier games but in the big games there has to be an element of setting up to shut out the opposition. 

[Fox92]

7 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

TBF we’ve just played the world/ European Champions and the Premier League Champions who have two of the best managers in the world spending a combined 2 billion quid along the way, and built teams over years.

When he gets out thought by Moyes, Smith or Hodgson on a regular basis we have a problem.

Was shit against Norwich though. Ended up making a sub within 30 mins. 

 

[Fox92]

1 hour ago, Plastik Man said:

Questionable tactics yes, but I think you've touched on a real problem.

 

Do we have a left winger in the squad? It's been said often enough we need more (goals) from our wide men, and that Chilwell doesn't get enough protection in front of him from Barnes or Maddison. But who else can we play there? Allbrighton? He's often come on on the right, but doesn't add any real goal threat either.

 

 

We don't have a quality winger and haven't since Mahrez. I thought we'd have gone for a quality winger in the summer, someone who will actually score. Barnes has got a lot of assists for us this season and that's fine but only Perez carries a goalscoring threat. 

[dooflip]

He hasn’t got any tactics. Now he’s got his 5 year contract he doesn’t need to work anymore, he can just chill at home with a fine bottle of whiskey instead.

[Finnegan]

Pretty much exactly what @ScouseFox said.

 

I like Rodgers, I'm happy with him as our manager, overall the season has been great. I've not enjoyed the football much since 15/16 (besides the odd game) and this has been a huge recovery. There's a lot to love, we play positively, with energy, most of the players show improvement, the results and league position are fantastic. 

 

But it is upsetting to see, not losses against Man City and Liverpool, but specifically those performances. If we'd lost both with stubborn one nil defeats you'd think, alright, okay. Good effort. But we've just conceded seven goals because we rolled over conceding all initiative. 

 

It is disappointing. We as a fan base need to let people express that concern without eye rolling and starting a witch hunt like nobody's allowed to criticise when things are going well. Equally, we need to learn that it's okay to be upset at something like this and not want a manager out. 

 

But he does need to sort it. Playing without proper wide defensive cover yesterday was stupid. Playing Maddison on the wing is and always has been stupid. It doesn't take a tactical visionary to spot it doesn't work, it's very clear within five minutes of a game where the space is and isn't on a pitch. 

 

I dunno. Maybe it's just a product of Rodgers lack of faith in his options out wide and we'll see improvement when we sign someone but still. I hope he learns from his lessons, I thought he had last time. 

[Stoopid]

1 hour ago, Plastik Man said:

Questionable tactics yes, but I think you've touched on a real problem.

 

Do we have a left winger in the squad? It's been said often enough we need more (goals) from our wide men, and that Chilwell doesn't get enough protection in front of him from Barnes or Maddison. But who else can we play there? Allbrighton? He's often come on on the right, but doesn't add any real goal threat either.

 

 

Easy in hindsight I know, but I think Albrighton on the left last night would at least have given Chilly a bit of help.

Maddison out there is notoriously inneffective and it stymies his game.

Marc is no goal-threat, true. But, blimey, we missed his industry last night - the space we let them have down that side was fatal.

[Plastik Man]

16 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

We don't have a quality winger and haven't since Mahrez. I thought we'd have gone for a quality winger in the summer, someone who will actually score. Barnes has got a lot of assists for us this season and that's fine but only Perez carries a goalscoring threat. 

Well yes, it's been said enough, we need a quality winger. Right now we don't have a goal threat out wide, but not even a wideman that can provide much cover either.

 

I'd agree Perez is a goal threat in theory, though I'm not sure he is providing much in practice at the moment, though he's been in and out the side.

[StriderHiryu]

It’s hard to criticise the manager’s tactics when the team can’t string 3 passes together in the midfield area before a move breaks down. I suppose we could have played long ball and tried to sit and soak but ultimately if we are to reach the next step as a club we need to impose our fast, short passing game on everyone. 

 

More concerning for me is the mentality of some of the younger players who seem to go missing in the big matches. Hopefully it’s something that with experience can be rectified because otherwise we will have no chance if players don’t turn up. Otherwise it might be that we need to sign a more experienced player in central midfield as that’s the area that has looked poor over the last few games. 

[pazzerfox]

1. Wilf has struggled on the ball, playing out from the back recently.  

2.  Maddison has struggled to get any space and has been muscled off the ball in the last 3 games.

3.  Vardy is void of service

4.  Chillwell has shown us that he is nowhere near the finished article.

5.  We lack a real quality winger.

6.  We lack squad depth.

7.  I still think we require a real quality midfielder at the base of the spine to dictate the play.

8.  Liverpool are the best side i have seen for a long time.  They tore us to pieces in 2nd gear..Van Dyck is on another level to any defender in the league.

9.  We need different tactics against better technical teams.  Leaving space out wide in defensive areas is criminal against players of TAA and Riyhads ability.  

Edited 27 December 2019 by pazzerfox

[Plastik Man]

2 minutes ago, Stoopid said:

Easy in hindsight I know, but I think Albrighton on the left last night would at least have given Chilly a bit of help.

Maddison out there is notoriously inneffective and it stymies his game.

Marc is no goal-threat, true. But, blimey, we missed his industry last night - the space we let them have down that side was fatal.

Yes, I think Allbrighton may be our most effective selection on the left at present.

 

 

F we can't buy a better winger then maybe we have to consider 3 at the back and play our full backs as wing backs.

[SheppyFox]

It’s poppy cock. There’s a rumour Rodgers loses to the top 6 I hear. In reality the two teams we’ve just been beaten by are just better than us more consistently. On our day we can beat either though.

[Plastik Man]

4 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

It’s hard to criticise the manager’s tactics when the team can’t string 3 passes together in the midfield area before a move breaks down. I suppose we could have played long ball and tried to sit and soak but ultimately if we are to reach the next step as a club we need to impose our fast, short passing game on everyone. 

 

More concerning for me is the mentality of some of the younger players who seem to go missing in the big matches. Hopefully it’s something that with experience can be rectified because otherwise we will have no chance if players don’t turn up. Otherwise it might be that we need to sign a more experienced player in central midfield as that’s the area that has looked poor over the last few games. 

I said to my mate last night that one of the qualities we need to look for in any January signings will be experience. We have a lot of young players and run the danger this dip in form becomes more serious if they struggle to overcome it.

 

Midfield is certainly where we could do with more authority. I wonder if Choudhury's added intensity might negate that? We were certainly second best physically yesterday, whether or not that was just fatigue or a manifestation of young players low on confidence.

[Plastik Man]

8 minutes ago, SheppyFox said:

It’s poppy cock. There’s a rumour Rodgers loses to the top 6 I hear. In reality the two teams we’ve just been beaten by are just better than us more consistently. On our day we can beat either though.

Yes, but maybe not a day in this month. Our form has undoubtedly dropped off. We were poor,  no two ways about it.

Edited 27 December 2019 by Plastik Man

[Foxes1]

He managed to get his tactics right a few weeks ago when he negotiated a new contract. 

[Plastik Man]

10 minutes ago, pazzerfox said:

1. Wilf has struggled on the ball, playing out from the back recently.  

2.  Maddison has struggled to get any space and has been muscled off the ball in the last 3 games.

3.  Vardy is void of service

4.  Chillwell has shown us that he is nowhere near the finished article.

5.  We lack a real quality winger.

6.  We lack squad depth.

7.  I still think we require a real quality midfielder at the base of the spine to dictate the play.

8.  Liverpool are the best side i have seen for a long time.  They tore us to pieces in 2nd gear..Van Dyck is on another level to any defender in the league.

I think Wilf has looked more comfortable this season than last passing wise, but our entire midfield were bullied. 

 

I think the ref was soft on them, certainly if it'd been the other way around he would've awarded free kicks to Liverpool, but we didn't really compete hard enough in midfield to take any control of the game.

 

It's abundantly clear we need a winger who can really threaten the opposition. We saw last night when Allbrighton came on, as soon as he beat his man it opened up the game, gave us some go forward. Suddenly we looked better and got them on the back foot.

[Guest ttfn]

I just can’t understand how he thought we were going to win playing like that?

 

As others have said, if Liverpool could have chosen the opposition’s tactics for the game that’s what they would have picked:

No pressure on the ball

No left sided midfielder giving their attacking right back free rein to do whatever he wanted

Slavishly trying to pass out from the back

Fair enough don’t play Gray or Barnes as a left winger to force TAA back, that’s a huge gamble (albeit yesterday should have been a shot to nothing for us). But at least a) give him something to think about so that he has to at least consider not bombing forward and/or b) have somebody track him.

 

I’ve seen some people saying that Rodgers doesn’t want to compromise on his principles for games like this, which is negligently naive if true. But whether it’s true or not the fact is that he actually is compromising by playing Maddison narrow on the left and in so doing is unbalancing the side - that’s not a point about symmetry, rather it’s about the players knowing where each other are. What was Praet’s position yesterday? It struck me that he had no idea whether he was supposed to be wide right in a 4-3-3, a bit narrower in a 4-2-3-1, a bit narrower still in a 4-2-2-2 or completely central. In the end he was none of those things.

 

I’m personally not a fan of Choudhury - I don’t think he’s anywhere near the level of the other midfield options technically but he is aggressive, tenacious and full of running. That’s exactly what we needed yesterday. It’s interesting that Christmas is when Puel brought him into the side last year for a run against “big” teams, with his added energy proving a real boost in a time when the team and crowd was low on enthusiasm. Leaving him out yesterday was a big mistake.

 

Rodgers is obviously a fantastic coach and the level he’s had the team playing at is probably the best quality of football the club has produced for at least 50 years.

 

But those tactics yesterday were absolutely frightening.

 

 

 

 

[Stoopid]

42 minutes ago, Plastik Man said:

Yes, I think Allbrighton may be our most effective selection on the left at present.

 

 

F we can't buy a better winger then maybe we have to consider 3 at the back and play our full backs as wing backs.

I'd actually consider that option.One of the three could provide help for the full/wing back without leaving holes in the middle. Chilly & Ricky are both great going forward and would give out balls for the midfield.

Be worth a go against West Ham maybe who are certainly not the stiffest opposition right now...