Man City banned from Europe !

[st albans fox]

5 minutes ago, FIF said:

No, apparently they've hidden them but because they refused they have been relegated for next season.

Saracens haven’t been asked to return their record is not in question in this respect ..... they refused to open their books in great detail so they were deducted points ........they then refused a second time to be open about their player payment record so they’ve been sanctioned a second time and accepted relegation as a preferred option....... 

 

surely the scale of Man City’s offence is what really matters  and the fact they are so flagrantly offending after a previous sanction .....

hundreds of millions of pounds in overstated sponsorship payments from Abu Dhabi companies ..........
 

it’s simply unfair to all the other clubs in the premier league who attempt to stay within the rules and thank goodness ueFA have the balls to do something about it ..... the premier league don’t ! 

[Pliskin]

They should be hit with everything. Relegated and be forced to work their way up. How is it cubs like Bolton can be near to folding for struggling, and teams like Man City can carry on? Money.... the PL won’t ever hit them hard, simply because they generate money.

[UHDrive]

2 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

I'm not surprised they took aim at Manchester City. Should I be happy about the verdict? Probably.

 

To the ones comparing us evading FFP regulations and them now breaching the rules: We've learnt from it, haven't done anything wrong ever since. and are now operating within our means, we don't tend to buy success, we want to nurture it. It may take a bit longer, but it'll be more worthwhile.

Instead of dishing out crazy money on acquiring top talent, our owners rather focus on establishing a great new training ground. And our Academy seems to bring up more and more talent also.

 

The irony here is that I remember a time when Manchester City were once relegated due to financial problems and had to bide their time in the 3rd tier even.

One would think they'd had learned from those mistakes and wouldn't repeat them.

 

I still quite like them as a club, more so than most of the "Top Clubs" in the league, I cheered them on when Agüero put that one past QPR a few years ago, but this seems to be just right. Justice done.

Spot on. To enhance the squad, brand and club then the training ground and stadium redevelopment are crucial to get to the level in the league that we are seeking. From academy through to world class signings, the infrastructure will prove to be massive magnet which in turn boosts our own wealth.

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

This will be an unpopular opinion but I'm on Man City's side and I hope they beat it. 

 

If FIFA want to impose a universal salary cap and actually tackle the money in the sport, I'm down with that. If FIFA want a seasonal spending budget for all teams, I'm down with that. 

 

But FFP is a con, United, Real, Barca and PSG all spend excessively on players and nobody bats an eyelid. They'll attack Man City largely for political reasons and because they don't like a formerly little club gatecrashing the party. 

 

Man City are a very intelligently run business, they recruit sensibly at all levels, from directors to coaches to academy staff. They spend wisely on players, never being held to ransom over cost. Despite their vast resources, their record signing is 65m or there or there abouts when other clubs have spent nearly three times that. 

 

Have they bought success? Obviously but then so have all the clubs in the champions league. I'd much rather see United punished for absolutely pissing away some half a billion on complete trash while their owners leech from the club with no direction at all. Man City are the model the other big boys should be following, tnot tearing them down. 

 

I'd rather a world without clubs like Man City, don't get me wrong, I'd rather a world without the out of control finances of football but either tackle all of them or leave MC alone imo. 

This isn't particularly about FFP though, the validity of which we can argue about (I'm with you, that it's a con); it's about Man City's conduct. 

 

FFP means clubs are meant to spend only as much on players and wages as they earn, and there are limits on the amount of additional revenue a club’s owner can put in from their own pocket.

 

Man City have lied about the true source of their income for years - the sponsorship deals they've had with companies were actually inflated by investments from a third party, backed by their owner.

 

They haven't spent megabucks on one player like Man United/Liverpool/Arsenal have because they don't want that reputation; instead they've spent £50m-65m on multiple players which outweighs everyone else's spending by far. 

 

Personally I'm glad they've been called out and hope the punishment sticks.

[Parafox]

Regardless of the stature, history and fan base of any particular club, the PL is a by and large a financial cash cow for the independent media and has been ever since Sky bankrolled the PL. Now their rivals, BT, Amazon, ESPN and such are pouring money into televising live games. Man C are one of many huge financial generators for these companies, including Bayern, PSG, Barca, Real/Atletico Madrid and so on.

I don't believe the fine and ban will be invoked in full. The financial implications of the 2 years loss of revenue for the media is significant in my opinion.

For that reason I think the media companies will somehow, in the background, pressurise FIFA/UEFA to reduce the punishment. And that makes me believe UEFA/FIFA is as corrupt now as it ever was with the obnoxious, corrupt Blatter.

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Saracens haven’t been asked to return their record is not in question in this respect ..... they refused to open their books in great detail so they were deducted points ........they then refused a second time to be open about their player payment record so they’ve been sanctioned a second time and accepted relegation as a preferred option....... 

 

surely the scale of Man City’s offence is what really matters  and the fact they are so flagrantly offending after a previous sanction .....

hundreds of millions of pounds in overstated sponsorship payments from Abu Dhabi companies ..........
 

it’s simply unfair to all the other clubs in the premier league who attempt to stay within the rules and thank goodness ueFA have the balls to do something about it ..... the premier league don’t ! 

Saracens can only keep their trophies if they are hidden from view. They cannot put them in a trophy cabinet and cannot display them to the public. They were asked to return them, they refused and then an agreement was made to hide them. According to someone in the organisation that I know.

[UHDrive]

Just read this interesting article. Man City are definitely screwed. What will the consequences be I.e. one season CL ban etc. and will they be sanctioned in the EPL.

[st albans fox]

Charles flint needs a new job then .........surely he should have declared a conflict of interest ?

[UHDrive]

9 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Charles flint needs a new job then .........surely he should have declared a conflict of interest ?

Yes. The guardian has cocked up the article a little as Emirates is a subsidiary owned by the UAE government. I can imagine he will use the term "Emirates Group" (Dubia) rather than UAE so as to avoid any conflict.

[yorkie1999]

Didn’t Ben Johnson get stripped of his Olympic gold medal as well as banned for the future. Surely this should be Man City’s fate and they should be stripped of their titles that they won due to cheating.

[UHDrive]

2 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Didn’t Ben Johnson get stripped of his Olympic gold medal as well as banned for the future. Surely this should be Man City’s fate and they should be stripped of their titles that they won due to cheating.

I personally think so, over the course of the 4 years worth of sponsorship as quoted.

[st albans fox]

8 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

Yes. The guardian has cocked up the article a little as Emirates is a subsidiary owned by the UAE government. I can imagine he will use the term "Emirates Group" (Dubia) rather than UAE so as to avoid any conflict.

I didn’t read the article clearly. ....... Dubai and Abu Dhabi are different .....ll

[Aus Fox]

Is there any word from the Premier League on this?

Surely if they are in breach of UEFA rules to the point where they are actually doing something, then they are surely in breach of PL rules. 
If the PL had any balls they would hit them now with the maximum punishment, whether this is points deducted or a huge fine per offence.

[Aus Fox]

The other thing to add here in terms of income for Man City. They do not have the huge world wide fan base of any of Europe’s other big clubs.

Everywhere I go I see Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Barca, Juve, Real Madrid or PSG shirts. These teams are well marketed an in a country without any major sports teams, it’s not unusual to see kids about in these shirts as much as any local sporting team.

Man City on the other hand, I see more Leicester or Everton shirts than I ever see Man City. 
If I go to the pub in the centre of Melbourne, where they are well known for big games if I watch Leicester take on any other big six team, I’m usually one of about 10-20 Leicester supporters in a packed out bar of a few hundred all in their Liverpool or Man Utd gear.

For a Man City game its the same as Leicester about 10 -20 usually.

The financial boost some of these overseas supply give can be huge, particularly in Asia. Man City really don’t have this added income stream to the same level.

[L3n9a]

12 hours ago, st albans fox said:

I’m not sure that this is true ?  I think Man City have 3 months to get their appeal in - then CAS have to look at the case - it’s in Man City’s interest to delay this till 21/22 - I am predicting now that unless Man City change their mind and decide to only appeal year 2 ban, they will be playing in next seasons competition....

It is, have a look, most notably the Olympic case recently. 
 

Athletic have also confirmed its almost definitely going to be heard before qualifying rounds start. 

[st albans fox]

9 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

Is there any word from the Premier League on this?

Surely if they are in breach of UEFA rules to the point where they are actually doing something, then they are surely in breach of PL rules. 
If the PL had any balls they would hit them now with the maximum punishment, whether this is points deducted or a huge fine per offence.

They don’t ...... especially where ultra rich people are concerned..... who cares about the ‘smaller’ clubs like ourselves ........ no one !   however, we don’t have ultra rich owners with disposable billions like many clubs so we  are more likely to care more - an Everton who have usmanov or a wolves with the backing of fosun won’t care as they want to gorge at the same trough and the opportunity to spend spend spend would be lapped up ! 

[Finnegan]

15 hours ago, Pliskin said:

They should be hit with everything. Relegated and be forced to work their way up. How is it cubs like Bolton can be near to folding for struggling, and teams like Man City can carry on? Money.... the PL won’t ever hit them hard, simply because they generate money.

 

I'm sorry but are Sunderland struggling financially? 

 

Are Leeds? Wednesday? Boro? 

 

Plenty of teams do a Bolton and drop from the top flight, they don't all turn in to a financial mess. Bolton are where they are because they've been horrendously run by shit owners. 

 

How, on one hand, can you call for the book to be thrown at Man City but actually speak out in support of Bolton in the same sentence? 

 

Man City's owners have done absolute wonders for their fans where as Bolton's and Coventry's, Blackpool's and Portsmouth's absolutely ****ing ruined theirs. 

 

If Man City were a global brand they'd be allowed to spend what they have, they're not being punished for spending a lot and buying success they're being punished for being upwardly mobile, they're being punished for gatecrashing the top table. 

 

That's exactly why we should be on their side because it's a glimpse in to our future, we have billionaire owners with aspirations of us being a top level club. We're already hearing that the established order is shitting themselves at that prospect and trying to close the shop. 

 

FFP pretends to be there to stop Bolton, Pompey, Cov etc from ruining themselves but its an actual joke. It's there to stop Man City, Wolves, Leicester and Co spending enough to catch up to United and Real and join the party. Barcelona and Real Madrid have laughed in the face of sensible spending for years and they get away with it. Man City are getting punished for being unfashionable, it's that simple. 

 

Edit: to caveat this, once again I'd add that I'd be totally in favour of a wage cap in football like rugby or a seasonal spending cap which I believe F1 has? I'd also be in favour of mandatory 51% fan ownership like most German clubs or FIFA pressing on with getting agents out of the game. Money in the sport is disgusting and needs to change but FFP is the wrong way to go. 

 

Edited 16 February 2020 by Finnegan

[reynard]

58 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I'm sorry but are Sunderland struggling financially? 

 

Are Leeds? Wednesday? Boro? 

 

Plenty of teams do a Bolton and drop from the top flight, they don't all turn in to a financial mess. Bolton are where they are because they've been horrendously run by shit owners. 

 

How, on one hand, can you call for the book to be thrown at Man City but actually speak out in support of Bolton in the same sentence? 

 

Man City's owners have done absolute wonders for their fans where as Bolton's and Coventry's, Blackpool's and Portsmouth's absolutely ****ing ruined theirs. 

 

If Man City were a global brand they'd be allowed to spend what they have, they're not being punished for spending a lot and buying success they're being punished for being upwardly mobile, they're being punished for gatecrashing the top table. 

 

That's exactly why we should be on their side because it's a glimpse in to our future, we have billionaire owners with aspirations of us being a top level club. We're already hearing that the established order is shitting themselves at that prospect and trying to close the shop. 

 

FFP pretends to be there to stop Bolton, Pompey, Cov etc from ruining themselves but its an actual joke. It's there to stop Man City, Wolves, Leicester and Co spending enough to catch up to United and Real and join the party. Barcelona and Real Madrid have laughed in the face of sensible spending for years and they get away with it. Man City are getting punished for being unfashionable, it's that simple. 

 

Edit: to caveat this, once again I'd add that I'd be totally in favour of a wage cap in football like rugby or a seasonal spending cap which I believe F1 has? I'd also be in favour of mandatory 51% fan ownership like most German clubs or FIFA pressing on with getting agents out of the game. Money in the sport is disgusting and needs to change but FFP is the wrong way to go. 

 

Great post!

Bits in bold are key for me. It should not be forgotten the amount of investment the Man City owners have made in the local area too. Rather like our owners.

Ridding the game of agents would be a major step forward and I agree the money in the sport is disgusting though it is hard to see how that will be changed now.

Personally I don't however, think this ban will hold up to legal scrutiny. At the end of the daymoney talks and Man City have plenty of it.

It also probably true that many other clubs are not exactly completely clean.

[Happy Fox]

No chance of Rodgers going there if Pep leaves.

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

I'm sorry but are Sunderland struggling financially? 

 

Are Leeds? Wednesday? Boro? 

 

Plenty of teams do a Bolton and drop from the top flight, they don't all turn in to a financial mess. Bolton are where they are because they've been horrendously run by shit owners. 

 

How, on one hand, can you call for the book to be thrown at Man City but actually speak out in support of Bolton in the same sentence? 

 

Man City's owners have done absolute wonders for their fans where as Bolton's and Coventry's, Blackpool's and Portsmouth's absolutely ****ing ruined theirs. 

 

If Man City were a global brand they'd be allowed to spend what they have, they're not being punished for spending a lot and buying success they're being punished for being upwardly mobile, they're being punished for gatecrashing the top table. 

 

That's exactly why we should be on their side because it's a glimpse in to our future, we have billionaire owners with aspirations of us being a top level club. We're already hearing that the established order is shitting themselves at that prospect and trying to close the shop. 

 

FFP pretends to be there to stop Bolton, Pompey, Cov etc from ruining themselves but its an actual joke. It's there to stop Man City, Wolves, Leicester and Co spending enough to catch up to United and Real and join the party. Barcelona and Real Madrid have laughed in the face of sensible spending for years and they get away with it. Man City are getting punished for being unfashionable, it's that simple. 

 

Edit: to caveat this, once again I'd add that I'd be totally in favour of a wage cap in football like rugby or a seasonal spending cap which I believe F1 has? I'd also be in favour of mandatory 51% fan ownership like most German clubs or FIFA pressing on with getting agents out of the game. Money in the sport is disgusting and needs to change but FFP is the wrong way to go. 

 

since the initial loaning of 100m a decade ago (subsequently becoming an investment) , the owners have not lavished  big money on us .....

all the evidence is that we will be run on our own merit as a proper business - with further investment available if it’s absolutely necessary. this looks to be via infrastructure investment - training ground and ground expansion - these will presumably sit as fixed assets on the balance sheet and are allowed re FFP.  Man City have indeed invested big time in the local community but also over spent by absolute  fortunes in the playing side of the club  - hence this case

 

we have no knowledge what goes on behind the scenes - we don’t know who has been willing to invest in the club over the years but had to be knocked back because of FFP restrictions - UEFA and prem league. Remember hull having a UEFA fine to pay because they qualified for Europa league but had overspent ref UEFA regs 

 

What would you prefer?  A system we have now where the big European clubs are generally protected by the size of their global fan base and commercial revenue (and where we exist just below that top table) or one where a forest/derby/Leeds etc etc could be catapulted past us via ownership by a wealthy nation or global tech company - I think the current situation, whilst fairly yuk,  is far better than a free for all which would likely lead to a financial mess with clubs going bust in a far bigger way than we’ve ever seen before. 

[Leeds Fox]

13 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Didn’t Ben Johnson get stripped of his Olympic gold medal as well as banned for the future. Surely this should be Man City’s fate and they should be stripped of their titles that they won due to cheating.

Who’d be credited with those titles then? Would it be the team who finished 2nd or would Man City’s results just be deducted making it a 36 game season? 
 

Without looking (and I’m not going to because I really don’t care), it might not even make a difference. 

[sacreblueits442]

14 hours ago, FIF said:

Saracens can only keep their trophies if they are hidden from view. They cannot put them in a trophy cabinet and cannot display them to the public. They were asked to return them, they refused and then an agreement was made to hide them. According to someone in the organisation that I know.

.. why not just expunge their titles from the records!! 

  They can hide the trophies all they want but the record will show they did not win them. 

[yorkie1999]

Just now, sacreblueits442 said:

.. why not just expunge their titles from the records!! 

  They can hide the trophies all they want but the record will show they did not win them. 

Same as Lance Armstrong, they stripped him of his titles and scrubbed his name from the history books

[weller54]

11 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

Who’d be credited with those titles then? Would it be the team who finished 2nd or would Man City’s results just be deducted making it a 36 game season? 
 

Without looking (and I’m not going to because I really don’t care), it might not even make a difference. 

Harry Kane is bound to claim one for The Spuds.

[sacreblueits442]

10 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

Who’d be credited with those titles then? Would it be the team who finished 2nd or would Man City’s results just be deducted making it a 36 game season? 
 

Without looking (and I’m not going to because I really don’t care), it might not even make a difference. 

.. the team that finished 2nd...this is still a meritocracy!! 

Like the Olympics the titles and awards are given retrospectively.