The Politics Thread 2020

[StanSP]

3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Australia can afford to cut itself off, it is cut off anyway! 

We will be soon as well 

 

[WigstonWanderer]

18 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Australia can afford to cut itself off, it is cut off anyway! 

The UK has been effectively cut off anyway as flights as I understand are a fraction of normal. My view for what it’s worth is that it is a mistake to think that just keeping things as open as possible for as long as possible is good for the economy. Eventually people react even if authorities don’t and this impacts the economy anyway. The problem is that by that time the infection is rife and it is the devils own job to drive it back down. This means that the economy suffers for longer.

 

Of course Perth was always going to get off more lightly than London for example, but without tough decisive action I firmly believe we would have seen a much deeper, longer crisis that would have impacted the local economy far more than it has. Most businesses are now back to normal here, with the obvious exception of pubs, clubs & restaurants, and even they are cautiously reopening.

 

Obviously I expect there will be hiccups along the road back, but I am reasonably confident that they can and will be dealt with without a mass outbreak.

 

Anyway, glad to see that your virused arse isn’t out here yet 

Edited 28 May 2020 by WigstonWanderer

[StriderHiryu]

2 hours ago, Lionator said:

This is basically just descending into if you're a Tory then you believe he's done nothing wrong and everything is the fault of lefty scum, or if you're not a Tory then he needs hanging.

 

This is exactly why Starmer wants to move the conversation on, he needs to destroy this ridiculous tribalistic, take a side at all costs attitude in order to have any chance in 2024. For Cummings this is perfect, he wants the us v them narrative. 

This for me has been the worrying trend in British politics over the last 4 years. To be fair, there have been plenty of Conservative members and MPs who have called for Cummings to resign / be fired, but there are still way too many people for my liking that have defended him. For me I think it's irrelevant which party he advises - he should have been relieved of his duties because his actions violated the very rules he helped set policy for!

 

Tribalistic politics achieves nothing other than creating more turmoil between people in the same nation. It's more than possible to praise and / or condemn a party you did / did not vote for, and people should try to judge leaders and governments for their actions rather than whom they voted for at the elections. For example, I think the Tories did a great job with their support for workers when lockdown was first announced with a generous furloughing scheme and small business loans. Sadly I think that's the only thing they've got right, everything else from messaging, testing, prevention, etc has been a mess.

 

It shouldn't be about "sides." We should all be on the same side - trying to make this country a great place to live in for everyone.

[EastAnglianFox]

Stop wasting questions on Cummings ffs they aren't going to get answered. 

 

Peston and Kuensberg fvck me off more than this entire lockdown

[Dahnsouff]

7 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

This for me has been the worrying trend in British politics over the last 4 years. To be fair, there have been plenty of Conservative members and MPs who have called for Cummings to resign / be fired, but there are still way too many people for my liking that have defended him. For me I think it's irrelevant which party he advises - he should have been relieved of his duties because his actions violated the very rules he helped set policy for!

 

Tribalistic politics achieves nothing other than creating more turmoil between people in the same nation. It's more than possible to praise and / or condemn a party you did / did not vote for, and people should try to judge leaders and governments for their actions rather than whom they voted for at the elections. For example, I think the Tories did a great job with their support for workers when lockdown was first announced with a generous furloughing scheme and small business loans. Sadly I think that's the only thing they've got right, everything else from messaging, testing, prevention, etc has been a mess.

 

It shouldn't be about "sides." We should all be on the same side - trying to make this country a great place to live in for everyone.

Although I do not necessarily disagree the bit in bold, and I have seen similar statements during the course of the coverage of this pandemic, but the basis for this conclusion I would be interested in hearing. As I say, I do not doubt there is a reason for your conclusion and it would be good to hear it, otherwise you too risk appearing to take a side as the rhetoric is inherently in opposition of the government, but without identifying the criteria in which your judgement is formed.

 

Sorry, but I am (for once) not trying to be a contrarian!

 

[CosbehFox]

3 hours ago, Lionator said:

This is exactly why Starmer wants to move the conversation on, he needs to destroy this ridiculous tribalistic, take a side at all costs attitude in order to have any chance in 2024. For Cummings this is perfect, he wants the us v them narrative. 

Well put. Cummings was the architect of this ‘culture war’. 

 

However he’s also not a Tory, he wants a vehicle to push his ideas and mechanisms along. Brexit for him was just as much about the availability of data. Long four years to know what he has been or is aiming for. 
 

I saw an excellent thing about how he’s been lucky enough to be in a bubble where he’s never had to work a rubbish job, hes had the safety net of a parent and also a in-law who owns a castle and as a result it’s all just a bit of a game to him. 

[UniFox21]

The reporters trying to drag the scientists into political aspects is incredibly unfair.

[CosbehFox]

Well this has been a shambles again by Johnson. Censoring left and right. Muting questions. Announcing we are still near a 1 R rating and then saying a six person rule now. What a contradiction

[bmt]

4 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

I find that quite astonishing.

So you will wilfully ignore advice from a democratically elected government in favour of an unelected individual (who happens to work for said government) ?

 

Their defence of the unelected individual to me shows that the law and rules are not absolute anymore, so I would happily ignore them. Having said that, I'd still be sensible, so maybe it won't lead to more people dying. But for me their defence of Cummings actions has completely undermined their own rules.

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, bmt said:

 

Their defence of the unelected individual to me shows that the law and rules are not absolute anymore, so I would happily ignore them. Having said that, I'd still be sensible, so maybe it won't lead to more people dying. But for me their defence of Cummings actions has completely undermined their own rules.

Listening to the recent briefing, I can quite believe this bit especially!  

[FoxesDeb]

I'm at the point now where I genuinely don't know what people want. If he keeps us in lock down people are clamouring for their jobs, their freedom, and the right to do as they want. If he lets us have a little bit more freedom, which lets face it, was set out weeks ago, then he's being reckless. 

 

[StanSP]

10 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

I'm at the point now where I genuinely don't know what people want. If he keeps us in lock down people are clamouring for their jobs, their freedom, and the right to do as they want. If he lets us have a little bit more freedom, which lets face it, was set out weeks ago, then he's being reckless. 

 

Horses for courses isn't it?! Some might need to go back, or want to because it's become possible. 

 

It's not reckless to gradually ease restrictions. It's how pretty much every other country has done things. 

[WigstonWanderer]

24 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

I'm at the point now where I genuinely don't know what people want. If he keeps us in lock down people are clamouring for their jobs, their freedom, and the right to do as they want. If he lets us have a little bit more freedom, which lets face it, was set out weeks ago, then he's being reckless. 

 

Probably different people though Deb

[FoxesDeb]

13 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Probably different people though Deb

Yes I think you're right. The problem is that not everyone will be happy, and there will always be people complaining. But I guess that's democracy, my only issue with it is the people that seem to change their minds depending on what is popular on Twitter and the like. People who are so quick to post Tweets despite not knowing whether they are factual or not, then deploring people who point out the facts, or worse, just don't respond when they're found to be falsehoods. 

[WigstonWanderer]

7 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Yes I think you're right. The problem is that not everyone will be happy, and there will always be people complaining. But I guess that's democracy, my only issue with it is the people that seem to change their minds depending on what is popular on Twitter and the like. People who are so quick to post Tweets despite not knowing whether they are factual or not, then deploring people who point out the facts, or worse, just don't respond when they're found to be falsehoods. 

Fortunately I don’t use Twitter. I much prefer the format of this forum, and also I like discussing things with other ordinary folk as we all struggle in our own way to understand what’s going on.

[WigstonWanderer]

https://theintercept.com/2020/05/26/coronavirus-gileand-remdesivir-treatment/
 

This article illustrates why people need to be highly sceptical about announcements of new treatments and vaccine developments. Too much potential for profiteering and conflicts of interests as share owning executives hype up results to pump up share prices, etc.

 

Thought it better to post this here than in the Coronavirus thread.

[FoxesDeb]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Horses for courses isn't it?! Some might need to go back, or want to because it's become possible. 

 

It's not reckless to gradually ease restrictions. It's how pretty much every other country has done things. 

That wasn't really my point. While I understand that people have different reasons for either agreeing or disagreeing with the way things are, I feel like some people aren't going to be happy with whatever is decided. 

[StanSP]

Haha this is good

 

[FoxesDeb]

1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Fortunately I don’t use Twitter. I much prefer the format of this forum, and also I like discussing things with other ordinary folk as we all struggle in our own way to understand what’s going on.

Neither do I use Twitter, but I feel like I can't escape it here! Every other post it seems is a Tweet screaming something that I'm supposed to be horrified about, even when it turns out later to be factually incorrect 

[StanSP]

Just now, FoxesDeb said:

Neither do I use Twitter, but I feel like I can't escape it here! Every other post it seems is a Tweet screaming something that I'm supposed to be horrified about, even when it turns out later to be factually incorrect 

I'm aware it's mostly me that does that. The intention really isn't for people to get 'horrified' at . 

[FoxesDeb]

5 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I'm aware it's mostly me that does that. The intention really isn't for people to get 'horrified' at . 

Haha yes horrified possibly wasn't the right word  But the Tweet is posted here, and it's often factually incorrect, but people start going 'omg look at this, it's terrible'. It's later proven to be bullshit, but so many people don't see that bit, they've seen the original Tweet, believed it to be fact, and then continue to repeat what they've read as an argument against people actually posting the facts. It's been a scourge of this whole situation on this forum tbh

[Jon the Hat]

16 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

The UK has been effectively cut off anyway as flights as I understand are a fraction of normal. My view for what it’s worth is that it is a mistake to think that just keeping things as open as possible for as long as possible is good for the economy. Eventually people react even if authorities don’t and this impacts the economy anyway. The problem is that by that time the infection is rife and it is the devils own job to drive it back down. This means that the economy suffers for longer.

 

Of course Perth was always going to get off more lightly than London for example, but without tough decisive action I firmly believe we would have seen a much deeper, longer crisis that would have impacted the local economy far more than it has. Most businesses are now back to normal here, with the obvious exception of pubs, clubs & restaurants, and even they are cautiously reopening.

 

Obviously I expect there will be hiccups along the road back, but I am reasonably confident that they can and will be dealt with without a mass outbreak.

 

Anyway, glad to see that your virused arse isn’t out here yet 

Ha, no still got to sell the house, and I am not about to quit my job in this economic environment.

Flights might be stopped, but have no doubt there are a continuous flow of trucks coming and going through the tunnel and on ferries, also ships in and out.  Logistics if anything are busier than ever.

I think when we do all the studies they will find that the population density of our cities, plus the volume of commuters is what has driven a lot of it, and possibly our tendancy to put our elderly in care homes might be higher than some other countries.

The flip side for Australia (and NZ) is it has absolutley no immunity in the community, so unless you plan to keep the lockdown for years I am not sure what the exit strategy is?  The economy will fall over if you can't allow tourist, students and business people in and out for years.

[twoleftfeet]

Do you think that Starmer would better off if rather than just pointing out the failings of the Government,

13 hours ago, StanSP said:

Haha this is good

 

How do the Lib Dems attract more people than Coventry City?

[Voll Blau]

"Everyone will have their scenarios".

 

Clear as muck then. Everyone can just claim exceptional circumstances now. Not everyone will (thankfully), but everyone can. And those who do will inevitably, somewhere along the way, take actions which end up costing lives.

 

That's why this issue won't go away until the government either apologise or sack Cummings.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Is finding Helen Whately oddly attractive a Coronavirus symptom?

 

Asking for a friend