Coronavirus Thread

[Innovindil]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53942542

 

Well shit. One of the few decent things to come out of all this bullshit seems to be under fire because a few coffee shops and sandwich shops need the offices open. 

 

So many benefits from people working at home too. Damn shame. 

[z-layrex]

1 minute ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

I had a meeting with a NHS trust last week - manager of their maintenance and repairs team. 

 

What a sobering 90 minutes that was. The challenges their team alone faced in trying to adapt to the situation. Some of the things mentioned:-

 

• Countless cold stores required in immediacy. 
• Having to get in AC units to assist with the cooling of staff in PPE but at the same time be aware of the cross-contamination 
• The conversion of wards into ICU - with a complete awareness that we realistically don't have enough nurses in this country to man them. 

Back in March when we were giving ward nurses 40 minute teaching sessions on how to look after an intubated patient and what some of the numbers they'll see on a ventilator mean, I had this vision of that scene from Enemy at the Gates where they're shoving a rifle into every other man's hand. 

[Dunge]

10 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53942542

 

Well shit. One of the few decent things to come out of all this bullshit seems to be under fire because a few coffee shops and sandwich shops need the offices open. 

 

So many benefits from people working at home too. Damn shame. 

The Daily Mail’s had a bee in its bonnet about this for weeks. Not really sure why.

 

I reckon it’s something that’s going to have to change anyway. It’s pretty much been proven now that working from home can be done, it saves on office space, reducing commuting and therefore pollution, and gives people more time in bed or to themselves in the evening. It may be Covid that’s fast-tracked it but this is a cultural shift that business is going to have to adapt to. For instance, how about having a mobile sandwich van going around residential areas? The money’s still out there, it’s just that business will have to change to fit new needs instead of begging the government to somehow enforce the old needs.

 

And this is from someone who, pre-pandemic, wasn’t particularly keen on the idea as my own employer was starting to push it.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

1 hour ago, The People's Hero said:

This ‘back to school ‘ stuff is not a brilliant idea is it ? 

What’s the alternative though? Keep the kids off school indefinitely? A whole generation missing out on education.

[simFox]

42 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53942542

 

Well shit. One of the few decent things to come out of all this bullshit seems to be under fire because a few coffee shops and sandwich shops need the offices open. 

 

So many benefits from people working at home too. Damn shame. 

I see benefits from both, bit at the same time is a damn shame that despite these being relatively low paid low skilled jobs, they are no less important and serve to employ a good swath of people that rely on those incomes.

 

Besides, I like a good sandwich shop and they need business to stay open.

[yorkie1999]

30 minutes ago, Dunge said:

The Daily Mail’s had a bee in its bonnet about this for weeks. Not really sure why.

 

I reckon it’s something that’s going to have to change anyway. It’s pretty much been proven now that working from home can be done, it saves on office space, reducing commuting and therefore pollution, and gives people more time in bed or to themselves in the evening. It may be Covid that’s fast-tracked it but this is a cultural shift that business is going to have to adapt to. For instance, how about having a mobile sandwich van going around residential areas? The money’s still out there, it’s just that business will have to change to fit new needs instead of begging the government to somehow enforce the old needs.

 

And this is from someone who, pre-pandemic, wasn’t particularly keen on the idea as my own employer was starting to push it.

Working from home is obviously great if you can do it, but it will eventually lead to job losses, lower wages and less recruitment.

[MonmoreStef]

44 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53942542

 

Well shit. One of the few decent things to come out of all this bullshit seems to be under fire because a few coffee shops and sandwich shops need the offices open. 

 

So many benefits from people working at home too. Damn shame. 

Yes plenty of plus sides to people working from home.  Unfortunately, however, just as many negatives for the economy. Pret A Manger the latest to lay off staff.  That’s another few thousand to be out of work along with several more thousand in other retail outlets.  Working from home will kill town centres and eventually the affects of this will be felt further along the chain.  Such as say, banking and insurance who will see less customers taking out mortgages and insurance policy’s, as they can’t afford them now they aren’t working. And at some stage companies will realise they can further save their costs, with this working from home policy, by getting staff from countries where wages are far lower than the UK wages. It’s a spiral that will eventually hit us all. I’m sure we all love working from home and being able to wank three times a day and shit in our own toilet but we need to accept the fun can’t last forever.

[Captain...]

On 26/08/2020 at 22:48, Izzy said:

Actually had our temperatures checked as we went in the Apple store today. The shopping centre in Plymouth seemed very strict on masks, distancing, one way traffic etc. but the pubs and restaurants around the harbour later on was the complete opposite. 
Just feels all a bit ad hoc and make it up as you go along. Guess we all just need to be sensible and use a bit of common sense.

I guess the difference is if you are vulnerable or at risk or just want to take every precaution you can because you are pregnant or have elderly dependents you shouldn't go to a pub or restaurant and they can be easily avoided. Whereas you may have a need to go to a shop, use public transport, go to the doctors etc.

 

It is a confusing mess, but it's what we've got and we have to do what we feel comfortable doing within the boundaries we've been given.

 

[Captain...]

38 minutes ago, Dunge said:

The Daily Mail’s had a bee in its bonnet about this for weeks. Not really sure why.

 

I reckon it’s something that’s going to have to change anyway. It’s pretty much been proven now that working from home can be done, it saves on office space, reducing commuting and therefore pollution, and gives people more time in bed or to themselves in the evening. It may be Covid that’s fast-tracked it but this is a cultural shift that business is going to have to adapt to. For instance, how about having a mobile sandwich van going around residential areas? The money’s still out there, it’s just that business will have to change to fit new needs instead of begging the government to somehow enforce the old needs.

 

And this is from someone who, pre-pandemic, wasn’t particularly keen on the idea as my own employer was starting to push it.

Exactly, it's adapt or die time for businesses, if there is an increase in people working from home then there is a bigger market for corner shops and little cafes in residential areas. 

 

We bought a fancy coffee machine as we work from home and the nearest cafe was a bit too far to walk. Thank you delonghi.

 

As you said the money is still there, mobile sandwich vans is a decent idea.

[Dunge]

4 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Working from home is obviously great if you can do it, but it will eventually lead to job losses, lower wages and less recruitment.

I would argue that it leads to different jobs, maybe in different sectors. People will still be spending, just in different areas. For instance, if people have more time and more money as a result of less commuting, then after the pandemic (fingers crossed), they should take up more leisure time. Which means there will opportunities in that sector. As for lower wages and less recruitment, I don’t see why that should be - not as a direct result of working from home anyway.
 

As for city centres, it looks like the slow death might be speeding up. Perhaps we’ll need a different relationship with our city centres in the future - more green spaces, more residential housing, or places where people actively want to go instead of making the best of the situation they have just because that’s where the work is.

[The People's Hero]

50 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

What’s the alternative though? Keep the kids off school indefinitely? A whole generation missing out on education.

Indefinitely doesn't mean forever though does it? It just feels rushed to be honest.

 

My kids certainly haven't missed out on an education in the meantime and I doubt many have to be honest.

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53942542

 

Well shit. One of the few decent things to come out of all this bullshit seems to be under fire because a few coffee shops and sandwich shops need the offices open. 

 

So many benefits from people working at home too. Damn shame. 

Reliably informed that whilst inner city businesses such as these have hurt, the independent bakeries, butchers etc on the community high street have performed better than in a long time. 

 

To give an idea - whilst Birmingham struggles, the Solihulls, Lichfields and Sutton Coldfields are enjoying custom in a big way. 

[CosbehFox]

11 minutes ago, Dunge said:

As for city centres, it looks like the slow death might be speeding up. Perhaps we’ll need a different relationship with our city centres in the future - more green spaces, more residential housing, or places where people actively want to go instead of making the best of the situation they have just because that’s where the work is.

This. 

 

One of the benefits out of the bad situation is that people appear to be exercising more - even if it's just a walk. 

[Innovindil]

28 minutes ago, MonmoreStef said:

Yes plenty of plus sides to people working from home.  Unfortunately, however, just as many negatives for the economy. Pret A Manger the latest to lay off staff.  That’s another few thousand to be out of work along with several more thousand in other retail outlets.  Working from home will kill town centres and eventually the affects of this will be felt further along the chain.  Such as say, banking and insurance who will see less customers taking out mortgages and insurance policy’s, as they can’t afford them now they aren’t working. And at some stage companies will realise they can further save their costs, with this working from home policy, by getting staff from countries where wages are far lower than the UK wages. It’s a spiral that will eventually hit us all. I’m sure we all love working from home and being able to wank three times a day and shit in our own toilet but we need to accept the fun can’t last forever.

Nothing stops them from doing this now. See most outsourced call centres. 

 

Being able to have a portion of your staff that is able to work from home do so lowers overall overheads and makes having UK based services cheaper than they are now. 

 

Town centres are dying anyways and sooner rather than later makes little difference. 

 

34 minutes ago, simFox said:

I see benefits from both, bit at the same time is a damn shame that despite these being relatively low paid low skilled jobs, they are no less important and serve to employ a good swath of people that rely on those incomes.

 

Besides, I like a good sandwich shop and they need business to stay open.

But the money that supports these jobs won't vanish, it will just change locations. Instead of giant superchains we could see the rise from the ashes of small local businesses. 

[yorkie1999]

12 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I would argue that it leads to different jobs, maybe in different sectors. People will still be spending, just in different areas. For instance, if people have more time and more money as a result of less commuting, then after the pandemic (fingers crossed), they should take up more leisure time. Which means there will opportunities in that sector. As for lower wages and less recruitment, I don’t see why that should be - not as a direct result of working from home anyway.
 

As for city centres, it looks like the slow death might be speeding up. Perhaps we’ll need a different relationship with our city centres in the future - more green spaces, more residential housing, or places where people actively want to go instead of making the best of the situation they have just because that’s where the work is.

If you can work from home, and i know what it's like because i have done so but more on a self employed basis where the ground work is done from home but the actual work is on site, why should i employ you on 50 grand a year when i can employ someone in india on 10 grand a year. Also, if i pay you high wage because of the location, as in places like London, with it's associated travel costs and cost of living etc, and you no longer need to travel, why should i pay you so much. Another thing is if you work from home you lose the competitive edge of location so consequently there a more available employees which means i can pay you less.

[Sampson]

7 hours ago, MPH said:

i return to work tomorrow for the first time in 10 weeks. it’s been a hellish time but it’s finally over.

Congrats! I'm glad you're through it all! 

[Innovindil]

8 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

why should i employ you on 50 grand a year when i can employ someone in india on 10 grand a year.

Ask Boeing what outsourcing can do for your businesses. 

[Captain...]

34 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

If you can work from home, and i know what it's like because i have done so but more on a self employed basis where the ground work is done from home but the actual work is on site, why should i employ you on 50 grand a year when i can employ someone in india on 10 grand a year. Also, if i pay you high wage because of the location, as in places like London, with it's associated travel costs and cost of living etc, and you no longer need to travel, why should i pay you so much. Another thing is if you work from home you lose the competitive edge of location so consequently there a more available employees which means i can pay you less.

Location will always be important, fashion companies will want to be in London, Milan and Paris for example, but not having to support the whole infrastructure in one expensive location will save costs. There will always be an element of location involved, most people will switch to working from home but come into the office once a week/ once a month. It still has to be viable and practical to get together for work purposes, but it shows that flexible working practices do work. Even working from home one day a week would make a big difference. WFH Friday rather than casual Friday.

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

Ask Boeing what outsourcing can do for your businesses. 

Outsourcing a wing or a fuselage  off an aircraft is a bit different to outsourcing you're wages department though. 

Edited 28 August 2020 by yorkie1999

[Innovindil]

52 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Outsourcing a wing or a fuselage  off an aircraft is a bit different to outsourcing you're wages department though. 

They outsourced coding, actually. Something which can be done easily from home. Not only did it end up costing hundreds of lives, it cost potentially billions of dollars in damages.

 

There is a reason not everything is outsourced, even though it would theorecially be cheaper.

[Dunge]

The threat of outsourcing is an abyss that we all dangle over anyway. I don’t think WFH or not changes that greatly.

 

I do see your point about London wages. I appreciate it could spark a widespread redistribution of wealth within London and London workers (although I can’t think that any other cities would see the same effect). I.e. London workers work from home, so they commute less, so their bosses feel they don’t need to pay them so much. But then prices in London surely have to drop because the same money on the ground isn’t there; perhaps London house prices or rental prices fall as a result and some homeowners and landlords lose out because of that. However, if that’s the bubble then I can’t see a great justification in pushing people back into London offices in order to protect it. Besides, if market forces demand it to secure the adjudged Best Talent then I believe wages will remain relatively high. If market forces don’t demand it then those wages are doomed anyway, regardless of WFH.

 

Plus - if we’re serious about looking to make environmental changes to combat climate change, then this would probably be a relatively easy win in the great scheme of things. The general populace wouldn’t take much persuasion.

[yorkie1999]

10 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

They outsourced coding, actually. Something which can be done easily from home. Not only did it end up costing hundreds of lives, it cost potentially billions of dollars in damages.

 

There is a reason not everything is outsourced, even though it would theorecially be cheaper.

Boeing started outsourcing in the 90's which caused major fuselage problems around the door and wing attachment structures on the 737 ng's because of fit errors caused by suppliers basically lying about their procedures and methods to win contracts. They sacked a lot of their quality control engineers so a lid could be kept on it. 

[Innovindil]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

Boeing started outsourcing in the 90's which caused major fuselage problems around the door and wing attachment structures on the 737 ng's because of fit errors caused by suppliers basically lying about their procedures and methods to win contracts. They sacked a lot of their quality control engineers so a lid could be kept on it. 

Obviously talking about recent problems, not stuff that happened when I was a child. 

 

In any event, same point. Outsourcing isn't neccessarily better just because it's cheaper. Or we'd outsource pretty much everything surely.

[yorkie1999]

Just now, Innovindil said:

Obviously talking about recent problems, not stuff that happened when I was a child. 

 

In any event, same point. Outsourcing isn't neccessarily better just because it's cheaper. Or we'd outsource pretty much everything surely.

Most companies outsource their manufacturing simply to avoid quality problems and equipment costs, in other words, it becomes someone else's problem until the shit hits the fan. All those triumph motorbikes made down the road from me have a made in britain badge stuck on them, but the majority of parts are made in the far east.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

2 hours ago, The People's Hero said:

Indefinitely doesn't mean forever though does it? It just feels rushed to be honest.

 

My kids certainly haven't missed out on an education in the meantime and I doubt many have to be honest.

Of course it doesn’t, but do you want to wait for a vaccine? How far is that away I wonder.... they will start missing out on an education, if it’s not safe to go back now and rushed then when will it be? After Christmas? Next spring? When the virus has been eradicated?