Coronavirus Thread

[simFox]

40 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

Why are we not protecting the vulnerable and going on as normal?
 

Next week I’m due some treatment that I’ve been waiting over 6 months for, and have been advised to isolate (or distance and much as practicable) for 10

days after as it’ll lower my immune system. I completely understand, and if I don’t I’m more susceptible than most to the virus.
 

Shouldn’t this be how the country moves forward? Vulnerable protect themselves and everyone else carries on as normal (with the current SD measures in place)? 

Unfortunately the government did a pretty good job of scaring that population to death. Couple that with an extended well paid holiday, so the workshy and lazy don't want the party to end, the media bask in sensationalised economic destruction and most of they population are ill informed at best and reluctant to discover any facts or what's actually happening.

 

The populist government are swinging to public opinion, which basically boills down to which pressure group shout loudest in the name of safety. Teachers unions are doing a great job lately.

 

A few of my friends and relatives think it's great having an this paid time off without any realisation we'll be paying for it one way or another.

 

History will show it to be the biggest over reaction and flagrant economic destruction ever recorded, the likes we will hopefully never see again. The only problem is, it's not over yet. Still plenty to wreck including the mental health of perfectly healthy people which is growing by the day.

 

 

[Leeds Fox]

26 minutes ago, simFox said:

Unfortunately the government did a pretty good job of scaring that population to death. Couple that with an extended well paid holiday, so the workshy and lazy don't want the party to end, the media bask in sensationalised economic destruction and most of they population are ill informed at best and reluctant to discover any facts or what's actually happening.

 

The populist government are swinging to public opinion, which basically boills down to which pressure group shout loudest in the name of safety. Teachers unions are doing a great job lately.

 

A few of my friends and relatives think it's great having an this paid time off without any realisation we'll be paying for it one way or another.

 

History will show it to be the biggest over reaction and flagrant economic destruction ever recorded, the likes we will hopefully never see again. The only problem is, it's not over yet. Still plenty to wreck including the mental health of perfectly healthy people which is growing by the day.

 

 

Well articulated. 
 

I had a couple of weeks off here and there to limit personnel in the workplace. I was paid in full but it was the most boring time I’ve ever had. I’m going to lose 46 days holiday come April and don’t care one bit. I don’t want them. I want to work and be busy, away from the bore of sitting in the garden (or living room as it’ll be in the coming months). 
 

I don’t have any idea on the numbers, but the gist I got was that the vulnerable were hit hard regardless of the lockdown. Which is terrible but it put the rest of the population at risk of so many other factors. 
 

Cancer patients dying who’d usually have survived etc. 

[Innovindil]

Holy. My prediction of having the pick of the work has belatedly come true. We're flipping rammed to the rafters. Back on full overtime with a full compliment of staff. 

 

Must have been some smaller firms go under during all this nonsense, we've got piles of work from companies that only usually send us a few odd bits and pieces. 

[RowlattsFox]

On the subject of masks in schools. I can understand maybe masks in corridors etc between lessons but there is no way they would be used properly if they had them on all day and I think it would be unfair too make them. Also teachers have enough issues in schools without having to go around enforcing mask rules. 

[Lionator]

5 hours ago, simFox said:

Unfortunately the government did a pretty good job of scaring that population to death. Couple that with an extended well paid holiday, so the workshy and lazy don't want the party to end, the media bask in sensationalised economic destruction and most of they population are ill informed at best and reluctant to discover any facts or what's actually happening.

 

The populist government are swinging to public opinion, which basically boills down to which pressure group shout loudest in the name of safety. Teachers unions are doing a great job lately.

 

A few of my friends and relatives think it's great having an this paid time off without any realisation we'll be paying for it one way or another.

 

History will show it to be the biggest over reaction and flagrant economic destruction ever recorded, the likes we will hopefully never see again. The only problem is, it's not over yet. Still plenty to wreck including the mental health of perfectly healthy people which is growing by the day.

 

 

It's already in the top 15 in terms of worst recorded pandemics of all time, and we're not even halfway through it yet. It is not an overreaction, these were incredibly difficult political decisions. In hindsight it may look like that because you haven't been personally affected by covid and we become numb to numbers and statistics. I would say it's more an indictment on our economic model that shutting down for several months has had such a profound effect. But it was necessary, should've been done several weeks earlier and potentially should've been stricter. 

Edited 26 August 2020 by Lionator

[Brenfox]

I would be interested to hear how many people are still on Furlough. I still am but everyone I know has returned to work.

[Captain...]

7 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

Why are we not protecting the vulnerable and going on as normal?
 

Next week I’m due some treatment that I’ve been waiting over 6 months for, and have been advised to isolate (or distance and much as practicable) for 10

days after as it’ll lower my immune system. I completely understand, and if I don’t I’m more susceptible than most to the virus.
 

Shouldn’t this be how the country moves forward? Vulnerable protect themselves and everyone else carries on as normal (with the current SD measures in place)? 

That's what the government tried and failed to do at the start.

 

Isolating for 10 days because you will have a temporary low immune system will be harder than you think, but to do what you are suggesting for the permanently vulnerable will be 10 months, which is a big ask.

[CosbehFox]

25 minutes ago, Brenfox said:

I would be interested to hear how many people are still on Furlough. I still am but everyone I know has returned to work.

'You lazy workshy blah blah blah' 

Edited 26 August 2020 by Cardiff_Fox

[whoareyaaa]

7 hours ago, simFox said:

Unfortunately the government did a pretty good job of scaring that population to death. Couple that with an extended well paid holiday, so the workshy and lazy don't want the party to end, the media bask in sensationalised economic destruction and most of they population are ill informed at best and reluctant to discover any facts or what's actually happening.

 

The populist government are swinging to public opinion, which basically boills down to which pressure group shout loudest in the name of safety. Teachers unions are doing a great job lately.

 

A few of my friends and relatives think it's great having an this paid time off without any realisation we'll be paying for it one way or another.

 

History will show it to be the biggest over reaction and flagrant economic destruction ever recorded, the likes we will hopefully never see again. The only problem is, it's not over yet. Still plenty to wreck including the mental health of perfectly healthy people which is growing by the day.

 

 

Every so often we need a rescission to put the public back into there place, pretty sure that's whats going on here.

[simFox]

13 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Every so often we need a rescission to put the public back into there place, pretty sure that's whats going on here.

Fine, we've had it. Can we go back to normal now please.

 

Around 450 people die every day of cancer, just in the UK lone

We had 50,000 excess winter deaths in England and Wales during the winter of 17/18, around 20,000 died in 1 month (that's excess deaths)

 

We need to get some perspective on just how bad this "pandemic" actually is.

 

I cant remember anyone being scared on the flu back in January 2018

Edited 26 August 2020 by simFox

[Captain...]

9 minutes ago, simFox said:

Fine, we've had it. Can we go back to normal now please.

 

Around 450 people die every day of cancer, just in the UK lone

We had 50,000 excess winter deaths in England and Wales during the winter of 17/18, around 20,000 died in 1 month (that's excess deaths)

 

We need to get some perspective on just how bad this "pandemic" actually is.

 

I cant remember anyone being scared on the flu back in January 2018

Well maybe people will start wearing masks more and washing hands more during flu season and we can get those numbers down. That and people actually taking the flu shots when they should.

 

What we don't want is to have a double whammy of coronavirus and flu every winter. 

 

We all want to get back to normal as soon as possible, the best thing to do is wear a mask and do everything we can to limit the spread.

[Sampson]

33 minutes ago, simFox said:

Fine, we've had it. Can we go back to normal now please.

 

Around 450 people die every day of cancer, just in the UK lone

We had 50,000 excess winter deaths in England and Wales during the winter of 17/18, around 20,000 died in 1 month (that's excess deaths)

 

We need to get some perspective on just how bad this "pandemic" actually is.

 

I cant remember anyone being scared on the flu back in January 2018

Because hospitals are built with the flu season in mind and their maximum capacity is built for the winter during a typical flu season. What you keep forgetting is that everything we are doing is for the sole reason to stop the NHS getting in the position we were in March time again when almost everything non-covid related had to get put on the backburner and all non-essential operation and treatments had to be cancelled and hospitals had to have way more nurses on intensive care patients working way longer hours than they should do if they want to save as many lives as possible.
 

At the moment we're about 6-8 weeks away from the typical start of the flu season and the potential double-whammy of covid and the season flu at the same time. 

Now, maybe you're right, maybe it will be the same people hospitalised from flu and covid, maybe the covid virus acts like the MERS virus and isn't worse in the winter so there won't be a winter covid spike, maybe social distancing will mean flu won't be as bad. But there's more than a decent chance that hospitals are going to be swamped again over the winter if we just  go back to normal and that's what we need to avoid.

I've said before, once it gets to March/April time and the winter's over, that's when we can talk about how to properly relax things and get back to normal. As it is, for those of us outside Leicester though right now, there's hardly much different to normal life now other than not being able to travel (I know that's not the same in Leicester and other places in lockdown or partial lockdown). You just have to wear a mask inside a queue up a bit more and you can't have large gatherings indoors but that's about it. But I cannot say there's much difference to my pre-covid life now again now things have opened up again,
 

Edited 26 August 2020 by Sampson

[filbertway]

If this we don't have a vaccine that works and there's no long lasting immunity, are people happy to just live this limited life for the rest of their lives?

 

The same people have been saying "it's just a couple of months, stop being selfish". I wonder at what point different people will hit the limit.

 

How is there no long term plan a, b, c yet? It seems like everything is still reactive. What if there's no progress by next summer? Do we continue to live like this forever? 

 

I hate not knowing what the long term plan is.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, filbertway said:

If this we don't have a vaccine that works and there's no long lasting immunity, are people happy to just live this limited life for the rest of their lives?

 

The same people have been saying "it's just a couple of months, stop being selfish". I wonder at what point different people will hit the limit.

 

How is there no long term plan a, b, c yet? It seems like everything is still reactive. What if there's no progress by next summer? Do we continue to live like this forever? 

 

I hate not knowing what the long term plan is.

It's a fair worry. But it's reasonably odds-on that at least a reasonably effective vaccine will be available within the next 6-12 months at the outside.

[Sampson]

1 minute ago, filbertway said:

If this we don't have a vaccine that works and there's no long lasting immunity, are people happy to just live this limited life for the rest of their lives?

 

The same people have been saying "it's just a couple of months, stop being selfish". I wonder at what point different people will hit the limit.

 

How is there no long term plan a, b, c yet? It seems like everything is still reactive. What if there's no progress by next summer? Do we continue to live like this forever? 

 

I hate not knowing what the long term plan is.

I think next spring time will be a point for a lot of people where people start to ask whether we should open up or not. But I think most are happy to accept it over the winter as we really have no idea how the virus is going to react over a winter season yet.

[filbertway]

Just now, leicsmac said:

It's a fair worry. But it's reasonably odds-on that at least a reasonably effective vaccine will be available within the next 6-12 months at the outside.

I hope so, the general attitude seems to be quite confident. I guess I'd just like to know the governments plans for different scenarios. At the minute, there's absolutely no end in sight and I we have no idea what's going to happen from month to month.

 

They must be having these discussions, I can only assume there's a reason they aren't informing us of their long term plans.

[filbertway]

1 minute ago, Sampson said:

I think next spring time will be a point for a lot of people where people start to ask whether we should open up or not. But I think most are happy to accept it over the winter as we really have no idea how the virus is going to react over a winter season yet.

I think you could be right, it's the unknown that's worrying at the minute. I think they'll change social distancing guidelines when winter comes to account for people not being able to eat and drink outside. 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I hope so, the general attitude seems to be quite confident. I guess I'd just like to know the governments plans for different scenarios. At the minute, there's absolutely no end in sight and I we have no idea what's going to happen from month to month.

 

They must be having these discussions, I can only assume there's a reason they aren't informing us of their long term plans.

To be honest, I think there's rather a lot of "making it up as we go along" from governments everywhere on this one because almost all of them were simply not prepared for societal disruption on this scale and in this way with no easy solution. So it may be that long term plans aren't being released because frankly they're not actually worth the paper they're written on.

 

This is a situation where a society, just like a human, who evolves and adapts best in a short time will do best IMO. And perhaps if humanity learns anything from this situation, it is exactly that, because this certainly isn't the last time nature will throw something at us and the next one may well be much, much bigger.

[Captain...]

The Sweden case makes for interesting reading, they had a plan and stuck with it, they made some changes to mass gatherings and social distancing but generally they've just got on with it. I'm not saying they are right or wrong and obviously different countries have different needs, but I do appreciate having a coherent plan and implementing it.

 

I think we are just waiting to see what other countries do, but so are other countries, so there will be an element of inertia until someone bites the bullet.

[Leeds Fox]

3 hours ago, Captain... said:

That's what the government tried and failed to do at the start.

 

Isolating for 10 days because you will have a temporary low immune system will be harder than you think, but to do what you are suggesting for the permanently vulnerable will be 10 months, which is a big ask.

I’m not going to isolate, I’ll just be more cautious than I have been. I’ll avoid going to places like the supermarket/shops etc unless absolutely necessary. 
 

I completely understand that isolating for 10 months is unsustainable. I maybe didn’t mean ‘isolate’, rather just be extra cautious and avoid (as much as possible) putting themselves in a position where they could become infected. 

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

To be honest, I think there's rather a lot of "making it up as we go along" from governments everywhere on this one because almost all of them were simply not prepared for societal disruption on this scale and in this way with no easy solution. So it may be that long term plans aren't being released because frankly they're not actually worth the paper they're written on.

 

This is a situation where a society, just like a human, who evolves and adapts best in a short time will do best IMO. And perhaps if humanity learns anything from this situation, it is exactly that, because this certainly isn't the last time nature will throw something at us and the next one may well be much, much bigger.

I reckon the Goverments have looked at long term plans,and from the beginning in preperation,not far behind the 8 ball....

Just look how quick they introduced furloughs & home office Plus support & payouts..

I believe there is more known & prepared,than what they are willing to Releases to the masses....

 

Without deciding on Marshall-law, they had to carry their individual societies into that open,but dramatic Not too tragic unknown,while still serving & heeding those democratic Laws & rights.

There were many very poor immediate responses & descisions,ad many that have shown up, and total Lack of Political organisational platforms,with understanding,what & where things are/were needed in their own societies. Too much theory/Admin projections, not enough ground Level praticality ideas & projections......and to much concentration on the Political rhetoric.....

 

eg.  No use producing all those Nightinggale-hospitals, if you Dont have neither the personelle nor rescources....Plus they could throw those NH buildings up,pretty Damn quick ,but no idea or thought about Throwing up some "roof over the heads". on Rental properties...

After the war they created prefab-homes & estates,which were only going to have a 20-25yr life....70 years later they are still serving the people, tho' more in private rented hands, or sold as private property....

 

Back to the Original thought, I believe the Western Governments know more on the dangers,the trends and in what they have in Short & long Term planning,

the question is, are the modern Social Scientist Advisory platform and Politics in power competent enough,or are they as incompetent because they Lend a Too heavy ear to their chosen too Politically powerful non elected advisors & confidents...

 

 

 

Edited 26 August 2020 by fuchsntf

[Strokes]

So, I left work today after feeling really unwell. High temperature, (although the site was mega hot) and just pretty weak in general.

So I thought I’d book a test to be on the safe side.

Im in Birmingham, checked the website, nearest drive in, Edgbaston 1.5m away. 
Book the appointment, turn up, only to be told at the gate the site had moved overnight to Birmingham Airport and I could turn up whenever I want.

I’m absolutely raging, why could I and still can book at Edgbaston if the site is closed?

Absolute shit show.

[filbertway]

 

9 minutes ago, Strokes said:

So, I left work today after feeling really unwell. High temperature, (although the site was mega hot) and just pretty weak in general.

So I thought I’d book a test to be on the safe side.

Im in Birmingham, checked the website, nearest drive in, Edgbaston 1.5m away. 
Book the appointment, turn up, only to be told at the gate the site had moved overnight to Birmingham Airport and I could turn up whenever I want.

I’m absolutely raging, why could I and still can book at Edgbaston if the site is closed?

Absolute shit show.

That's very poor mate. Should be so simple as well to deactivate that in the database and prevent it from being bookable. Not surprised a government website is awful though.

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, filbertway said:

 

That's very poor mate. Should be so simple as well to deactivate that in the database and prevent it from being bookable. Not surprised a government website is awful though.

It’s appalling.

The guy on the gate claimed nobody on-site was aware it was being moved today.

Which just beggars belief.

[stix]

10 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

Well articulated. 
 

I had a couple of weeks off here and there to limit personnel in the workplace. I was paid in full but it was the most boring time I’ve ever had. I’m going to lose 46 days holiday come April and don’t care one bit. I don’t want them. I want to work and be busy, away from the bore of sitting in the garden (or living room as it’ll be in the coming months). 
 

I don’t have any idea on the numbers, but the gist I got was that the vulnerable were hit hard regardless of the lockdown. Which is terrible but it put the rest of the population at risk of so many other factors. 
 

Cancer patients dying who’d usually have survived etc. 

This seems to have been glossed over somewhat......FORTY SIX DAYS