Coronavirus Thread

[foxile5]

7 minutes ago, lcfc278 said:

For reference, I know 2 people that have died from Coronavirus, and directly from it. Granted not friends or family but people I have worked with. I have close family who are nurses who have witnessed people suffering from it and were rushed off their feet in APril and early May because of it.

 

A lot of momentum gathering behind people denying the virus and/or underestimating it.

 

I am all for getting back to work and getting back to normal but I also see absolutely no harm in taking precautions with distancing and wearing a mask in shops etc. It's not a big deal and could prevent you or someone you know from losing a loved one.

Agreed. There can be safeguards put in place. 

 

My post was aimed at those who believe the disease doesn't exist or is government sponsored as a means of control. Not those who want to seek normality. 

[Lionator]

4 hours ago, Lionheart10 said:

The death rate for the whole period now stands at 0.063% ( 42,000 people have died out of a population of 66 million.) They estimate about treble that amount will die from other illnesses not treated during the last 6 months!!

That's the population death rate but the actual infection death rate is a lot higher, in fact it's estimated at around 0.8-1% based on antibody studies. If you let covid loose on the whole population until 80% herd immunity was reached then you'd be looking at 400,000-500,000 deaths.

[yorkie1999]

5 hours ago, Lionheart10 said:

The death rate for the whole period now stands at 0.063% ( 42,000 people have died out of a population of 66 million.) They estimate about treble that amount will die from other illnesses not treated during the last 6 months!!

And out of that 42000, how many died because of the virus, not died with it. No doubt no one can actually give an answer to that but I would have thought that a rough estimate would be people who have died on icu wards.

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

That's the population death rate but the actual infection death rate is a lot higher, in fact it's estimated at around 0.8-1% based on antibody studies. If you let covid loose on the whole population until 80% herd immunity was reached then you'd be looking at 400,000-500,000 deaths.

What’s the actual infection death rate?

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, lcfc278 said:

And the government is encouraging businesses to open back up and get people back in to the office, the masks are to try and limit the spread of the virus (which they are proven to do so) - the protests just seem like an excuse for conspiracy theorists to go mad against the government for no reason

I think the government didn’t exactly realise where all the money in the economy comes from.

[Lionator]

16 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

What’s the actual infection death rate?

I can't find the article but on average it comes to 0.9% globally in the systematic review they did. However the infection death rate is a pointless statistic because under 50's have a virtually 0% chance of dying whereas it was 10%+ for over 75's. You'll find poorer countries, especially those in Africa will have tiny death rates yet the likes of ourselves and Italy who have old populations will be a lot higher. 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I think the government didn’t exactly realise where all the money in the economy comes from.

They’d have to be complete fools not to realise that......

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, lcfc278 said:

And the government is encouraging businesses to open back up and get people back in to the office, the masks are to try and limit the spread of the virus (which they are proven to do so) - the protests just seem like an excuse for conspiracy theorists to go mad against the government for no reason

Governments don’t gain from this pandemic. They have seen their economies fall off a cliff (directly impacting the majority in our House of Commons) 
 

I fully expect that opinion will change on the incumbent govts not during the pandemic but the aftermath and financial implications. 

[lcfc278]

2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Governments don’t gain from this pandemic. They have seen their economies fall off a cliff (directly impacting the majority in our House of Commons) 
 

I fully expect that opinion will change on the incumbent govts not during the pandemic but the aftermath and financial implications. 

Exactly! But the way some of these tin foil hat wearers speak you would think the government actually want the country to fall to ruins.

Edited 31 August 2020 by lcfc278

[whoareyaaa]

36 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

And out of that 42000, how many died because of the virus, not died with it. No doubt no one can actually give an answer to that but I would have thought that a rough estimate would be people who have died on icu wards.

There was concerns after that ventilators was making it worse in some cases and we're not actually needed..

 

There is also a study about exosomes with fear causing the body to react in ways it normally wouldn't which could lead to other illness worsening 

 

No one really knows what's what which is concerning considering we are creating a vaccine 

[Leicester_Loyal]

7 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

 

Very interesting stuff and well sourced 

I read about this the other week, haven't gone into too much detail about it, but they reckon that only certain people pass it on. The figure I saw wasn't as high as 90% but it was probably an average or something, think it was more like 70%.

 

4 more deaths announced today, all from a backlog, 3 of them with no positive test

[Stivo]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

And out of that 42000, how many died because of the virus, not died with it. No doubt no one can actually give an answer to that but I would have thought that a rough estimate would be people who have died on icu wards

the dashboard statistics are designed for fast reporting when the death certificate may not be available.

 

Better but slower are the ONS statistics.

 

the  number with death certificates written by the doctor mentioning covid19   52k. 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/latest

 

There are strict rules about death certificates defined in section 4.1 here

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf

There is an example of what you might find for a covid19  death on page 7.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Livid]

Just watched the news about this TUI flight.

 

Had lunch with a friend on Friday, she flew back from Northern Italy a few weeks ago. The plane was delayed arriving and they got the passengers off and boarded those who were waiting straight away. Turned around and flew back. I’m guessing the crew have a limit on hours. 
 

No cleaning of the plane at all. Everyone was wiping down there own seats, trays and seatbelts. 
 

This is what is putting me off public transport and hotels for all their claims about improved cleaning standards etc. At some point somewhere someone is liable to be up against the clock and corners will be cut. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

4 hours ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

They’d have to be complete fools not to realise that......

 

Though you are correct, Boris does himself no favours.

[st albans fox]

10 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

 

Very interesting stuff and well sourced 

Makes some sense - I guess it means that the person who tests positive may not need to isolate but their family members and recent close contacts most definitely do 

 

I doubt there is a one size fits all answer in any case 

[Paninistickers]

2 hours ago, Livid said:

Just watched the news about this TUI flight.

 

Had lunch with a friend on Friday, she flew back from Northern Italy a few weeks ago. The plane was delayed arriving and they got the passengers off and boarded those who were waiting straight away. Turned around and flew back. I’m guessing the crew have a limit on hours. 
 

No cleaning of the plane at all. Everyone was wiping down there own seats, trays and seatbelts. 
 

This is what is putting me off public transport and hotels for all their claims about improved cleaning standards etc. At some point somewhere someone is liable to be up against the clock and corners will be cut. 

I'm not surprised. All these supposed enhanced cleaning regimes are pie in the sky stuff. 

 

It's well meaning, but unrealistic. To decontaminate a seat properly would perhaps take five solid minutes of rigorous cleaning. Plus innumerable clean wipes so germs aren't simply being spread from one part of the seat to the other. 

 

It's just guff to make us all feel better. 

 

I don't see a problem though. Just keep your hands and fingers away eyes/nose/mouth...which as a long time germ/clean hands freak anyway, is second nature to me

 

 

[Leeds Fox]

11 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I'm not surprised. All these supposed enhanced cleaning regimes are pie in the sky stuff. 

 

It's well meaning, but unrealistic. To decontaminate a seat properly would perhaps take five solid minutes of rigorous cleaning. Plus innumerable clean wipes so germs aren't simply being spread from one part of the seat to the other. 

 

It's just guff to make us all feel better. 

 

I don't see a problem though. Just keep your hands and fingers away eyes/nose/mouth...which as a long time germ/clean hands freak anyway, is second nature to me

 

 

You don’t half see some odd behaviour as a result of what’s going on though. 
 

I watched an older bloke trying to press a pedestrian crossing button with his elbow (fair enough). Turned out he couldn’t manage it, so after wiping his elbow on button for a good 5 seconds, he used the palm side of his index finger. 
 

I was baffled as to why he didn’t just use his knuckle of his little finger or something similar that isn’t likely to end up near his mouth/eyes/nose.

 

That’s only one example of what I’ve seen but it shows how little common sense some people have.

[simFox]

5 hours ago, lcfc278 said:

Exactly! But the way some of these tin foil hat wearers speak you would think the government actually want the country to fall to ruins.

 

I don't think there are any conspiracys. But what the government are doing now is destroying our economy, though things are getting better.

 

However jumping into a local lockdown every week is not something I agree with and is just pushing people beyond their ability to recover.

 

As for the control thing. I'm against any kind of infringement on our freedoms. It also brings out the curtain twitchers and those idiot community enforcement types, the type of person who enforces "the rules" no matter how trivial. The most amazing thing to me is just how quickly people are willing to throw those freedoms away in the name of safety, but what's even more astonishing is their willingness to continue. The most frightening thing is just how easy it was for a government to action and enforce.

 

One could argue the lockdown stopped the virus and I would agree. But I would argue that we could have been equally effective using social distancing and increased test, trace and isolate and saved more of our economy. This is proved out through Sweden and quite a few US States who didn't use lockdowns. The curves have all been very similar. 

 

We needed cool calm steady and strong leadership. What we got was hysterical knee jerk reactive decisions and we are still getting them.

 

Edited 31 August 2020 by simFox

[Paninistickers]

7 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

You don’t half see some odd behaviour as a result of what’s going on though. 
 

I watched an older bloke trying to press a pedestrian crossing button with his elbow (fair enough). Turned out he couldn’t manage it, so after wiping his elbow on button for a good 5 seconds, he used the palm side of his index finger. 
 

I was baffled as to why he didn’t just use his knuckle of his little finger or something similar that isn’t likely to end up near his mouth/eyes/nose.

 

That’s only one example of what I’ve seen but it shows how little common sense some people have.

Lol. I'm a bit guilty of the occasional eccentric touching behaviour, using a crooked finger knuckle to press for traffic lights or McDonald's electronic order screens (which by the way, were being used by scores of people today... without.cleaning in-between) 

....and me being just over six foot, I push and pull bog door handles at the top where few.people.reach to 😂

[simFox]

12 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

You don’t half see some odd behaviour as a result of what’s going on though. 
 

I watched an older bloke trying to press a pedestrian crossing button with his elbow (fair enough). Turned out he couldn’t manage it, so after wiping his elbow on button for a good 5 seconds, he used the palm side of his index finger. 
 

I was baffled as to why he didn’t just use his knuckle of his little finger or something similar that isn’t likely to end up near his mouth/eyes/nose.

 

That’s only one example of what I’ve seen but it shows how little common sense some people have.

I have a pencil attached to my forehead for just such an occasion.

[Leeds Fox]

Just now, Paninistickers said:

Lol. I'm a bit guilty of the occasional eccentric touching behaviour, using a crooked finger knuckle to press for traffic lights or McDonald's electronic order screens (which by the way, were being used by scores of people today... without.cleaning in-between) 

....and me being just over six foot, I push and pull bog door handles at the top where few.people.reach to 😂

I think we have a lot in common 

 

But in all seriousness, sanitising your hands isn’t always doable until you get back to your car, desk, etc. So I’d always avoid touching something potentially dirty before having to touch my own door handle, door keys etc. Not because of CV19, but because people can be disgusting. 

[Leeds Fox]

1 minute ago, simFox said:

I have a pencil attached to my forehead for just such an occasion.

Sounds like it might not actually be a pencil 

[simFox]

7 hours ago, Lionator said:

That's the population death rate but the actual infection death rate is a lot higher, in fact it's estimated at around 0.8-1% based on antibody studies. If you let covid loose on the whole population until 80% herd immunity was reached then you'd be looking at 400,000-500,000 deaths.

Where did you get that from?

 

Ferguson gave a "worst case scenario" which was based on is doing nothing, no social distancing and going about normally. It was also shown to be a very flawed bit of logic used in his calculation. There are many publications discussing it. He was an idiot and you'd do better not to parrot his debunked figures.

 

I think they ran his code to predict Swedens outcome using exactly what they actually did and the projections were just laughable.

 

https://www.iedm.org/the-flawed-covid-19-model-that-locked-down-canada/

[Leicester_Loyal]

It really feels like this is just fizzling out. With cases rising slightly, I'd like to see the number of deaths in the next couple of weeks, we'll see where we stand a lot better then.

[yorkie1999]

6 hours ago, Livid said:

Just watched the news about this TUI flight.

 

Had lunch with a friend on Friday, she flew back from Northern Italy a few weeks ago. The plane was delayed arriving and they got the passengers off and boarded those who were waiting straight away. Turned around and flew back. I’m guessing the crew have a limit on hours. 
 

No cleaning of the plane at all. Everyone was wiping down there own seats, trays and seatbelts. 
 

This is what is putting me off public transport and hotels for all their claims about improved cleaning standards etc. At some point somewhere someone is liable to be up against the clock and corners will be cut. 

If people want to go out the country on holiday, it means they are prepared for the risks involved both with catching the virus and having to self isolate. Why panic about having to rush back in the event of a country going on the isolation list if they were knew there was a risk both to themselves and others. Surely no one can expect it to be safe on a plane where even if someone has a nut allergy, nuts are banned for everyone.