Coronavirus Thread

[Crinklyfox]

A lot of people are fed up with restrictions.  Especially now that death rates have dramatically fallen.  But death rates have dramatically fallen because as a society we've changed how we behave.

 

Changes in infection rates are influenced by three factors:

 

1.  Change to the virus

2.  Change to the host (us)

3.  Change to the environment

 

1.  Virus.  The virus has only changed slightly, a single mutation has been proven to date which does not appear to have influenced infection or death rates significantly.  Returning to the pre lockdown world would most likely result in an R rate of around 3, reviving the infection rates of March and April.

 

2.  Host.  Our resistance to the virus has only changed slightly, in that since March a proportion of the population has become infected, and that has increased herd immunity.  The current spread, mostly amongst the young, will increase this resistance but until we get a vaccine we will not be able to halt the spread of the virus to any significant extent.

 

3.  Environment.  Social distancing, mask wearing and other measures imposed during lockdown have reduced infection rates.  As lockdown is eased infection rates will rise as managing the environment in which the virus can spread remains the only effective measure at this time.

 

We know enough about the virus now to understand that it can be deadly to some, and it has become increasingly clear that a proportion of the survivors experience physical issues, which may be life threatening or debilitating in some cases, into the future.  In my view this is not something we should accept as a society therefore I implore the impatient to bear with the current restrictions and any others that may have to be imposed until such time as a vaccine is developed or remedial medicine is developed to treat sufferers of Covid-19.

[yorkie1999]

26 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I'm a mole now? Who for? The government or the illuminati? 

I never said you were, but you obviously feel the need to respond with a derogatory comment for some reason.

[zorro en españa]

27 minutes ago, simFox said:

No one is denying the virus exists. The fact is we have over estimated it's severity.

 

We only needed to protect the weak and vulnerable, but instead we sent them home to look after themselves and got a deathrate that struck fear into the population. But if you took a few minutes to look at the statistics and understood just how serious this isn't, you've got to question why millions of people are losing their jobs, suicide rates are through the roof and more people are now dieing due to non Covid reasons.

 

Do you deny the current death/unemployment statistics? It's frankly not acceptable.

 

My urine temperature... 95, 96, 97, 98.....

Your source?

[Sampson]

9 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I never said you were, but you obviously feel the need to respond with a derogatory comment for some reason.

You literally quoted my post saying it was as if there's moles and debunkers.

 

You absolutely did.

 

What was derogatory about it? You literally claimed there were moles on media sites like this directly quoting me. I just responded in.a jokey way seeing as the accusation was obviously so ludicrous.

[Captain...]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

 

I don't disagree with the core concept of wearing as mask in enclosed spaces to help prevent spread, it's just common sense.

 

Do you seriously believe it'll help get things back quicker though? This thing is always going to be around, always. 

 

Nothing is going to remove this virus any time soon, and while it's out there, the same people will keep finding excuses and keep saying "it's just a while longer".

There is no reason to keep any restrictions longer than necessary the government want to, need to, get the economy going again. If we can as a society show we are able to accept the minor inconvenience of wearing a mask when asked to then they will be more confident in opening things up. 

 

The stage we need to get to is a point where we go about our daily lives mask free until there is a recorded case in our local community, then we get an alert and we all go about our daily business with a mask on.

 

The amount of people I see not wearing a mask when they should, or not wearing a mask properly is staggering. 

[whoareyaaa]

the thing the boggles the mind is they had months (  6+  ) to tell us wear masks yet they have decided last minute after the damage has already been done that masks are the answer. (don't believe in the time it takes to make them either not 6 months.

 

absolutely rubbish, thousands of jobs lost when they could have told the most vulnerable to furlough and protect them self while the rest got on with it.

 

 

Edited 26 August 2020 by whoareyaaa

[Captain...]

38 minutes ago, simFox said:

suicide rates are through the roof

And there are a number of reports saying having covid has an impact on your mental health. A colleague of mine tested positive for covid-19, moderate symptoms, carried on working from home, got over it no more symptoms, no history of mental health issues, pretty strong reliable sort, he's been just released from hospital after a couple of months of debilitating anxiety attacks and clinical depression.

 

He is not the only one, a commonly noted side effect of coronavirus is mental health issues possibly a cause of these increased suicide rates.

 

This is the big difference between flu and coronavirus, we know flu is shit, you get it, you get over it, you get on with life. Assuming it doesn't kill you. Coronavirus is still relatively unknown in it's long term effects and long term immunity. This why caution is still the best way forwards.

[Sampson]

13 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

the thing the boggles the mind is they had months (  6+  ) to tell us wear masks yet they have decided last minute after the damage has already been done that masks are the answer. (don't believe in the time it takes to make them either not 6 months.

 

absolutely rubbish, thousands of jobs lost when they could have told the most vulnerable to furlough and protect them self while the rest got on with it.

 

 

It was always obvious they didnt want to recommend masks because of the PPE shortage and they didnt want every day folk taking masks from key workers.

 

It all goes back to the fact we simply hadn't prepared for this despite the fact scientists had been telling us we were overdue a pandemic for years and that swine flu, which was a false alarm due to so many old and vulnerable people having immunity due to an old virus, should have been the wake up call, but wasn't.

Edited 26 August 2020 by Sampson

[Captain...]

5 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

the thing the boggles the mind is they had months (  6+  ) to tell us wear masks yet they have decided last minute after the damage has already been done that masks are the answer. (don't believe in the time it takes to make them either not 6 months.

 

absolutely rubbish, thousands of jobs lost when they could have told the most vulnerable to furlough and protect them self while the rest got on with it.

 

 

That was how they started but the projections were not good, they were not able to protect the most vulnerable and would not have been able to protect the NHS. We properly fvcked up at the start, we let it get too much of a hold implementing your proposed strategy panicked because hundreds of thousands we're going to die, went in to lockdown too late and are now struggling to come out of it.

 

We know a lot more now, and importantly have a drug that is helping keep mortality rates low, but without the daily briefings we are actually just grasping at straws in terms of the impact. Cases are riding again, but is that local outbreaks or due to increased testing? We have no baseline and no knowledge and it is frustrating, but the only thing we can do is be compliant little government drones wear our masks, stop having illegal gatherings. They need to trust that we will follow the rules to protect the vulnerable and the NHS if they relax them.

[whoareyaaa]

7 minutes ago, Sampson said:

It was always obvious they didnt want to recommend masks because of the PPE shortage and they didnt want every day folk taking masks from key workers.

 

It all goes back to the fact we simply hadn't prepared for this despite the fact scientists had been telling us we were overdue a pandemic for years and that swine flu, which was a false alarm due to so many old and vulnerable people having immunity due to an old virus, should have been the wake up call, but wasn't.

its took 6+ months to prepare some cotton masks  

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

4 hours ago, Nalis said:

The ones that bug me are the middle classes/houlier than thou tw ats on social media complaining about pubs being open just because they dont go, yet conveniently forgetting about the economic and social benefits it beings. As long as things go back to normal in their world thats all that matter....

Or the ones that take offence to people going on holiday, labelling them selfish, personally I’ve worked all year, I can’t go on holiday until October through work commitments and desperately need a holiday (which was booked last October) and I’m happy to quarantine upon my return.

Some people should climb down from their ivory tower and not be so quick to judge others before they know the facts.

[Nalis]

1 hour ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Or the ones that take offence to people going on holiday, labelling them selfish, personally I’ve worked all year, I can’t go on holiday until October through work commitments and desperately need a holiday (which was booked last October) and I’m happy to quarantine upon my return.

Some people should climb down from their ivory tower and not be so quick to judge others before they know the facts.

Couldnt agree more. It's like those in massive houses with big gardens complaining above those in cramped, tiny, 6th floor flats having the cheek to walk through a park back in April.

[Samilktray]

20 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Couldnt agree more. It's like those in massive houses with big gardens complaining above those in cramped, tiny, 6th floor flats having the cheek to walk through a park back in April.

So tories?

[zorro en españa]

3 hours ago, Captain... said:

And there are a number of reports saying having covid has an impact on your mental health. A colleague of mine tested positive for covid-19, moderate symptoms, carried on working from home, got over it no more symptoms, no history of mental health issues, pretty strong reliable sort, he's been just released from hospital after a couple of months of debilitating anxiety attacks and clinical depression.

 

He is not the only one, a commonly noted side effect of coronavirus is mental health issues possibly a cause of these increased suicide rates.

 

This is the big difference between flu and coronavirus, we know flu is shit, you get it, you get over it, you get on with life. Assuming it doesn't kill you. Coronavirus is still relatively unknown in it's long term effects and long term immunity. This why caution is still the best way forwards.

I asked simfox for his source of, what I consider, his remark that suicides are going through the roof.  You practically repeat it - do you have a source for these increased suicides?

 

I have absolutely no doubt that the psychological impact on many people is terrible including the collateral impact but let's not simply regurgitate what we might think must be the case.

 

I await either of your evidence that suicides have gone through the roof.

[st albans fox]

It’s about time David icke turned up on here ....

 

he’d fit in ok 

[foxile5]

Boris Johnson blaming the grades fiasco on a 'mutant algorithm' is the icing on the cake. 

 

How anyone can support this bare face liar it's utterly beyond me. 

 

They invented the algorithm. It's their fault. To lack the necessary bollocks to admit a mistake is one thing. To take the public for absolute ***** in the process is quite the other.

 

A fraudulent charlatan who deserves hounding out of power. 

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, zorro en españa said:

I asked simfox for his source of, what I consider, his remark that suicides are going through the roof.  You practically repeat it - do you have a source for these increased suicides?

 

I have absolutely no doubt that the psychological impact on many people is terrible including the collateral impact but let's not simply regurgitate what we might think must be the case.

 

I await either of your evidence that suicides have gone through the roof.

They don't have any evidence because it's simply not true. 

 

Of course it's been a shocking time for mental health, but the effects of 200,000+ dying from an unmitigated peak of a pandemic would be far more profound.

[Izzy]

Down in Plymouth for a week with the family and went for a meal tonight at a restaurant by the harbour.

It was absolutely heaving and they were turning people away. Tables laid out the same as normal and only inches between them.  Impossible to social distance and no one wearing a mask (including staff and chefs).

Just like a normal busy summer’s evening. 
I don’t get why you have to wear masks in shops etc but not in busy establishments like this.
It’s the inconsistency of it all that confuses me really. 

[fuchsntf]

5 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Down in Plymouth for a week with the family and went for a meal tonight at a restaurant by the harbour.

It was absolutely heaving and they were turning people away. Tables laid out the same as normal and only inches between them.  Impossible to social distance and no one wearing a mask (including staff and chefs).

Just like a normal busy summer’s evening. 
I don’t get why you have to wear masks in shops etc but not in busy establishments like this.
It’s the inconsistency of it all that confuses me really. 

Whos to blame, other than the proprieter  & customers....???

 

 

[Izzy]

4 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Whos to blame, other than the proprieter  & customers....???

 

 

I don’t know. I’m not sure what the rules are supposed to be in restaurants tbh. 

P.S. The staff were saying they can’t wait for this Eat out to help out scheme to finish though because they’ve been ran off their feet and can’t cope.

 

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Or the ones that take offence to people going on holiday, labelling them selfish, personally I’ve worked all year, I can’t go on holiday until October through work commitments and desperately need a holiday (which was booked last October) and I’m happy to quarantine upon my return.

Some people should climb down from their ivory tower and not be so quick to judge others before they know the facts.

But couldnt that be you....!!!

Me..!!  Even after Reading all arguments,opinions & Stats to the left/Stats to the right...

I am none the wiser & lets be honest...nobody is..!! They just  bring their own Perspectives to the table...

I am Fortunate I can read,Listen to other Languages,even then there are Mixed & various perspectives,from where the individuals & groups create their opinions..

Usually based on their own Bias Personal concerns, worries, and perspective of their world....

 

[FoxesDeb]

15 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I don’t know. I’m not sure what the rules are supposed to be in restaurants tbh. 

P.S. The staff were saying they can’t wait for this Eat out to help out scheme to finish though because they’ve been ran off their feet and can’t cope.

 

You don't have to wear a mask in restaurants, but it's advisable. 

 

We have eaten out a few times in Dorset and the tables have been well spaced out, and we've also had our temperature taken. I always felt safe, the staff were pretty stressed out though! 

[Captain...]

1 hour ago, zorro en españa said:

I asked simfox for his source of, what I consider, his remark that suicides are going through the roof.  You practically repeat it - do you have a source for these increased suicides?

 

I have absolutely no doubt that the psychological impact on many people is terrible including the collateral impact but let's not simply regurgitate what we might think must be the case.

 

I await either of your evidence that suicides have gone through the roof.

I have made no such claim just posted a response to simFox to explain that mental health issues are linked to "recovering" from coronavirus.

 

If you do a quick Google you will find an article on an increase in child suicide during lockdown and an increase in suicide in the elderly. Both are fairly small numbers and more anecdotal than anything conclusive. Not really representative of suicide rates going through the roof, but indicative of a possible relationship between lockdown/covid and suicide.

[fuchsntf]

13 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I don’t know. I’m not sure what the rules are supposed to be in restaurants tbh. 

P.S. The staff were saying they can’t wait for this Eat out to help out scheme to finish though because they’ve been ran off their feet and can’t cope.

 

Then just like before Covid, they tell/inform their boss, or carry on taking their tips like any other season....

Usually its a staff Member that Take the reservations,understanding with the Kitchen what they can churn out & cope with,

reservations Plus  including any open footfall..!!

I reckon some have never seen a full christmas / New year season.....

 

[Izzy]

1 minute ago, FoxesDeb said:

You don't have to wear a mask in restaurants, but it's advisable. 

 

We have eaten out a few times in Dorset and the tables have been well spaced out, and we've also had our temperature taken. I always felt safe, the staff were pretty stressed out though! 

Actually had our temperatures checked as we went in the Apple store today. The shopping centre in Plymouth seemed very strict on masks, distancing, one way traffic etc. but the pubs and restaurants around the harbour later on was the complete opposite. 
Just feels all a bit ad hoc and make it up as you go along. Guess we all just need to be sensible and use a bit of common sense.