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1 hour ago, String fellow said:

I'm puzzled as to why you don't understand my point. You appear to be advocating less restrictions, whilst John Edmunds, who is an expert, is advocating precisely the opposite.

 

I'm not really advocating anything because I have no idea, I have a personal preference for not having further restrictions, but a bigger preference for robust debate in the public sphere. So I was having a go at armchair-experts, advocating lifting restrictions without a cogent argument, who hang their hat on finding a way to pretend that problems don't exist. Their drivel drowns out people that offer good insight into a less risk-averse strategy. 

 

 

 

 

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Thank you for the clarification of your position. Personally, I'm no expert either, but common sense appears to show that a less risk-averse (more risky) strategy could see the UK's daily death toll increase dramatically in the coming weeks. I for one would be quite happy to do my personal bit in helping to stop that happening, but it seems that an increasing number of other people (mainly those unlikely to die from COVID-19) take a different view.

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Testing are rising as we need a little more caution but context is everything.

 

The recent case numbers skew things a little since testing is a lot better than it was in April not to mention more face covering, social distance measures and better treatment for those in hospital.

 

For example, yesterday we had the most cases recorded to date for a single day.

 

On the previous peak in terms of case in April, 1,148 people died on the same day. Yesterday there were 40.

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18 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Testing are rising as we need a little more caution but context is everything.

 

The recent case numbers skew things a little since testing is a lot better than it was in April not to mention more face covering, social distance measures and better treatment for those in hospital.

 

For example, yesterday we had the most cases recorded to date for a single day.

 

On the previous peak in terms of case in April, 1,148 people died on the same day. Yesterday there were 40.

there are timing differences in there, but it is hard to see that this looks much like April.  How many cases did we have then?  No idea, but I would guess millions.

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2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

It's almost like the scientists know **** all about economics and don't have to worry about the country not being completely ****ed, and are only answering medical and epidemology based questions with no political lens whatsoever.  On this basis you would ban ****ing everything. Smoking; drinking; driving; meeting other people at all.

Is the daft "academic that doesn't live in the real world" (whatever "real world" means) stereotype still so widespread that folks think that scientists aren't taking societal consequences into account? To say nothing of the fact that they're probably as dependent on the next pay slip as anyone else?

 

A more likely and less prejudiced explanation is that the scientists have had to adapt their advice based on rapidly changing knowledge of this virus and, at the present time, consider that the more risk averse course is the best one for the time being, having taken everything, including societal consequences, into amount.

 

It may be that they're wrong about that in the long run, but that won't be because they didn't consider something as patently obvious as the damage remaining "closed" would do.

 

2 hours ago, filbertway said:

That's exactly what it is. If you ask a doctor or a scientist for an opinion anything, they're going to give one that is solely geared at being risk averse and most likely to benefit physical health.

 

If they asked for the top doctors/scientists opinions on people eating fast food or drinking, they would probably suggest bringing in limits on what people can purchase in shops or pubs/restaurants. You could easily create a terrifying agenda and have the same people in here whipped up into a frenzy.

I'd like to know on what widespread context that a more risk averse recommendation is somehow "wrong". 

 

And there's a world of difference between recommendations to legislate consumption of food and drink products (a personal choice that mostly only affects the consumer) and recommendations to legislate measures against transmitting a virus (which is a personal choice that can and will affect far more people than only the person making it).

Edited by leicsmac
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Got our first scan appointment through for our second child and I'm not allowed in. Not sure if this has been brought in as a result of the new guidance or has been the case throughout. 

 

I understand the need to limit people in hospitals but it's bit shit when you consider the things you are allowed to do. If they run on time, I'd likely be in there for 5 minutes.

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15 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

Got our first scan appointment through for our second child and I'm not allowed in. Not sure if this has been brought in as a result of the new guidance or has been the case throughout. 

 

I understand the need to limit people in hospitals but it's bit shit when you consider the things you are allowed to do. If they run on time, I'd likely be in there for 5 minutes.

They've been operating like that since the start of lockdown. I had to miss both nhs scans.

 

Congrats though!

Edited by Fktf
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21 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

Got our first scan appointment through for our second child and I'm not allowed in. Not sure if this has been brought in as a result of the new guidance or has been the case throughout. 

 

I understand the need to limit people in hospitals but it's bit shit when you consider the things you are allowed to do. If they run on time, I'd likely be in there for 5 minutes.

It’s pointless anyway, all you see is some weird cartoon like alien. Good for checking the baby is healthy, but not much else.

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6 minutes ago, Fktf said:

They've been operating like that since the start of lockdown. I had to miss both nhs scans.

They've said I'll be able to go to next one, but that will probably change by the time that comes around. I understand during the peak but not sure it's needed currently. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It’s pointless anyway, all you see is some weird cartoon like alien. Good for checking the baby is healthy, but not much else.

lol 

 

Yeah not too bothered about missing it  if the baby is healthy, although I think seeing the images for the first time should be a shared experience. If something was wrong though I'd like to be in there. 

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4 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Feel free to move to China if you want to live in a police state!  FFS the death rate is miniscule and you want to hand over your freedoms.  Un ****ing believable.

so many people are willing to live like this, frightened to death due to main stream media coverage.

If you are fit and healthy the chances of dying is so small it's not worth worrying about.

problem with handing over freedoms is they then become normal and you never get them back.

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52 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

so many people are willing to live like this, frightened to death due to main stream media coverage.

If you are fit and healthy the chances of dying is so small it's not worth worrying about.

problem with handing over freedoms is they then become normal and you never get them back.

There lies the problem for many, they are not fit and healthy!!! Too many fags, chicken dippers and McDonald’s.

 

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1 hour ago, RowlattsFox said:

They've said I'll be able to go to next one, but that will probably change by the time that comes around. I understand during the peak but not sure it's needed currently. 

We ended up paying something like £50 for a private scan. Timed it for between the 20 week scan and birth, as there's not much contact with anyone between those dates (midwife appointments were over the phone) - so it gave us the chance to go to a scan together, and provided a little peace of mind that everything was going ok.

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1 hour ago, Strokes said:

It’s pointless anyway, all you see is some weird cartoon like alien. Good for checking the baby is healthy, but not much else.

Some sad parents even have a photo of that weird cartoon like alien blown up into a huge canvas and hanging in their main room :ph34r:

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27 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

There lies the problem for many, they are not fit and healthy!!! Too many fags, chicken dippers and McDonald’s.

 

This is so true, I can't remember where I read it but I'm sure men in their fifties with a bit of a belly were filling up the ICU's at one point. Classed as an underlying condition, but probably didn't really consider themselves high risk 

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23 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Some sad parents even have a photo of that weird cartoon like alien blown up into a huge canvas and hanging in their main room :ph34r:

When you show people round do you say, on the left you can see my wife’s uterus?

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2 hours ago, RowlattsFox said:

Got our first scan appointment through for our second child and I'm not allowed in. Not sure if this has been brought in as a result of the new guidance or has been the case throughout. 

 

I understand the need to limit people in hospitals but it's bit shit when you consider the things you are allowed to do. If they run on time, I'd likely be in there for 5 minutes.

I believe in some NHS Trusts they wouldn't even let your wife in.  ;)

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