Coronavirus Thread

[Innovindil]

Just now, Carl the Llama said:

If that something was using lazy cliches to mock the young and the poor on a football forum then I guess congratulations are in order. 

Nah that something was to get enough skills to be worth more than someone who has the skill set of a Costa coffee machine at the petrol station, but thanks for the congratulations. Think I deserve it for beating this evil youth destroying system and giving it to "the man". 

[leicsmac]

Way I see it, pretty much everyone on here who talks about the topic is statistically (that is to say, a little run of bad circumstances, like this pandemic for instance) closer to destitution than they are to the "aspirational" objectives that many seek to reach and a lot of it relies on luck so some humility might not be amiss, but hey.

 

Anyhow, on topic, Korea steadily getting on top of the mini-outbreak that happened a few weeks back - almost back to daily case numbers approaching what it was like before it happened.

Edited 1 October 2020 by leicsmac

[Innovindil]

9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Way I see it, pretty much everyone on here who talks about the topic is statistically (that is to say, a little run of bad circumstances, like this pandemic for instance) closer to destitution than they are to the "aspirational" objectives that many seek to reach and a lot of it relies on luck so some humility might not be amiss, but hey.

 

Anyhow, on topic, Korea steadily getting on top of the mini-outbreak that happened a few weeks back - almost back to daily case numbers approaching what it was like before it happened.

Humility flies out of the window with me when somebody assumes I've had it easy and I'm ignorant of what it's like to work a minimum wage job. 

 

You'll see I've made no assumptions over Carl or what he's been through or what he's capable of. For all I know he has 2 fingers and no legs and pouring coffee was all he was physically able to do, not judging him based on that at all. 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Humility flies out of the window with me when somebody assumes I've had it easy and I'm ignorant of what it's like to work a minimum wage job. 

 

You'll see I've made no assumptions over Carl or what he's been through or what he's capable of. For all I know he has 2 fingers and no legs and pouring coffee was all he was physically able to do, not judging him based on that at all. 

Given the stance you showed towards baristas and students, I can see where Carl jumped to that conclusion (as unfounded as it turned out to be), though - unfortunately there is rather a lot of judgement of folks in what are judged as "lesser" jobs by folks who have never really seen that side, but I guess that's always been the case.

 

Bring on enough automation for a UBI and people can work as they choose IMO (as unlikely as the powers that be would be OK with that) - but again, topic for another thread.

[Izzy]

23 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

I've made no assumptions over Carl. For all I know he has 2 fingers and no legs 

So you DO know him 
 

Edited 1 October 2020 by Izzy

[WigstonWanderer]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Way I see it, pretty much everyone on here who talks about the topic is statistically (that is to say, a little run of bad circumstances, like this pandemic for instance) closer to destitution than they are to the "aspirational" objectives that many seek to reach and a lot of it relies on luck so some humility might not be amiss, but hey.

 

Anyhow, on topic, Korea steadily getting on top of the mini-outbreak that happened a few weeks back - almost back to daily case numbers approaching what it was like before it happened.

Glad to hear that. Not sure if I’ve asked you this before, but has South Korea pretty much shut its borders to travellers like Australia has? We are only allowing returning travellers back in, and they have to quarantine in a hotel for 14 days. Goods are flowing freely in and out of ports.

 

A bit like your outbreak, we had one in Victoria with positive tests getting up to over 700 per day, but after a fairly hard lockdown (only in Victoria), positive tests are now down to ~ 10 per day, offering some proof that lockdowns do work at least in some circumstances. Hopefully we don’t have any more bungles.

 

Life is mostly back to normal here, especially where I am in WA, at least for the moment. The risk is that if any infected people do get in it could spread quickly, hence the caution. This means that the economy is pretty much fully open except for the travel industry, and even that is offset to some extent by Aussies only being able to take holidays locally.

 

Obviously a significant amount of economic damage has already been done and we have much higher unemployment than before, but at least so far we’ve probably got off quite lightly compared with most other countries.

Edited 1 October 2020 by WigstonWanderer

[WigstonWanderer]

Not sure what happened here

Edited 1 October 2020 by WigstonWanderer

[WigstonWanderer]

Ffs

Edited 1 October 2020 by WigstonWanderer

[Carl the Llama]

51 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Humility flies out of the window with me when somebody assumes I've had it easy and I'm ignorant of what it's like to work a minimum wage job. 

 

You'll see I've made no assumptions over Carl or what he's been through or what he's capable of. For all I know he has 2 fingers and no legs and pouring coffee was all he was physically able to do, not judging him based on that at all. 

Sorry but if you've really worked with these people then there's even less excuse for your attitude, it's worse than ignorance if you claim to be familiar with the environment and the people who work in it.  FWIW I'm salaried, not on minimum wage hour-to-hour, but I was and I manage a bunch who are and your suggestion that there's something wrong with those people is gross.  Some of them are students funding their studies like you were, some of them are slightly older people looking for an extra revenue source for their family, some of them are slightly older people looking to switch careers (how I started in the business), some of them took the job because they're desperate for work and they'll take anything, and there's lots more reasons someone might end up in this line of work besides.  Whatever the reason, they're all just as hard working as you see yourself, they wouldn't last beyond the trial if not. They're reason they're not sitting at the desk next to you right now isn't just because they didn't work hard enough, they're just not at that point in their life yet and they don't deserve your disrespect for that. On top of it all right now they are all under the very real double pressure of working in a role requiring engagement with potentially infectious members of the public all day while moderating their tantrums over mask wearing or only taking card payments while the same virus threatens the security of their job in the first place.

 

But do go on about how they must all be disabled to be working minimum wage.

[Carl the Llama]

Back on topic and it looks like the North East's back on nearly full lockdown.

[Innovindil]

42 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Given the stance you showed towards baristas and students, I can see where Carl jumped to that conclusion (as unfounded as it turned out to be), though - unfortunately there is rather a lot of judgement of folks in what are judged as "lesser" jobs by folks who have never really seen that side, but I guess that's always been the case.

 

Bring on enough automation for a UBI and people can work as they choose IMO (as unlikely as the powers that be would be OK with that) - but again, topic for another thread.

Think my stance on students was fair enough, I'm not judging all young people, just the ones partying that people are trying to make excuses for. Just like I wouldn't let excuses slide for some 30 year old chav party going on. Or dorris and her ilk getting their swing on. 

 

We wouldn't be accepting, or even tilting to the "well I don't agree with it but I get it" angle for anyone else. I imagine there's plenty of middle ages folk worried about the climate, or the economy, or the big bad evil man. Would we "get it" for them? Course not. 

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Glad to hear that. Not sure if I’ve asked you this before, but has South Korea pretty much shut its borders to travellers like Australia has? We are only allowing returning travellers back in, and they have to quarantine in a hotel for 14 days. Goods are flowing freely in and out of ports.

 

A bit like your outbreak, we had one in Victoria with positive tests getting up to over 700 per day, but after a fairly hard lockdown (only in Victoria), positive tests are now down to ~ 10 per day, offering some proof that lockdowns do work at least in some circumstances. Hopefully we don’t have any more bungles.

 

Life is mostly back to normal here, especially where I am in WA, at least for the moment. The risk is that if any infected people do get in it could spread quickly, hence the caution. This means that the economy is pretty much fully open except for the travel industry, and that is offset to some extent by Aussies only being able to take holidays locally.

 

Obviously a significant amount of economic damage has already been done and we have much higher unemployment than before, but at least so far we’ve probably got off quite lightly compared with most other countries.

They haven't shut their borders so people can come in, but anyone coming in - Korean or otherwise - has to stay in a quarantine facility (or in case of resident in their own home after taking designated transportation there) for 14 days and get two negative tests before being given the OK.

 

Lockdowns, for me, work when they're well-targetted and you don't have that many cases to deal with anyway. Korea have been superb at dealing with the localised outbreaks as they happen and thus keeping the number down from the start.

[filbertway]

Genuinely think they're trying to slowly put the whole country into lockdown. The north's basically been covered. It'll be the midlands and south west by November. Then the south east and south coast. Then maybe London for a week or two.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Think my stance on students was fair enough, I'm not judging all young people, just the ones partying that people are trying to make excuses for. Just like I wouldn't let excuses slide for some 30 year old chav party going on. Or dorris and her ilk getting their swing on. 

 

We wouldn't be accepting, or even tilting to the "well I don't agree with it but I get it" angle for anyone else. I imagine there's plenty of middle ages folk worried about the climate, or the economy, or the big bad evil man. Would we "get it" for them? Course not. 

Not sure if I'm getting your point totally in the second paragraph, but if I am, IMO unfortunately there is a lot of "I get it" towards the climate and autocrats in particular, which is exactly why too little is being done on the former and too many of the latter are in power.

Edited 1 October 2020 by leicsmac

[Innovindil]

3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Sorry but if you've really worked with these people then there's even less excuse for your attitude, it's worse than ignorance if you claim to be familiar with the environment and the people who work in it.  FWIW I'm salaried, not on minimum wage hour-to-hour, but I was and I manage a bunch who are and your suggestion that there's something wrong with those people is gross.  Some of them are students funding their studies like you were, some of them are slightly older people looking for an extra revenue source for their family, some of them are slightly older people looking to switch careers (how I started in the business), some of them took the job because they're desperate for work and they'll take anything, and there's lots more reasons someone might end up in this line of work besides.  Whatever the reason, they're all just as hard working as you see yourself, they wouldn't last beyond the trial if not. They're reason they're not sitting at the desk next to you right now isn't just because they didn't work hard enough, they're just not at that point in their life yet and they don't deserve your disrespect for that. On top of it all right now they are all under the very real double pressure of working in a role requiring engagement with potentially infectious members of the public all day while moderating their tantrums over mask wearing or only taking card payments while the same virus threatens the security of their job in the first place.

 

But do go on about how they must all be disabled to be working minimum wage.

Amazing. You've managed to put words into my mouth again. Where did I say they must all be disabled to be working minimum wage? I didn't. My brother works minimum wage, he's not disabled, just has the life drive of a snail. And before you try and put words into my mouth, or fingers again, that does not mean I think every person has the life drive of a snail. Merely a singular example. 

 

And like I said, I've worked these jobs. Students are supposed to work them, that's why every time you stroll into a mcdonalds, the average age of staff is around 18. The only people older are those working part time or in management roles which actually pay fairly decent when you climb above shift manager. 

 

However, the fact your using things like "they're just not at that point in their life yet" is a testament that you yourself see these jobs just like I do, merely stepping stone jobs and not suitable for a long term career. 

 

P. S. Never once did I say these people didn't work hard. I've only ever suggested that pretty much any chimp can pour a coffee, which is true enough. Not sure why it causes your jimmies to be rustled. 

[Innovindil]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Not sure if I'm getting your point totally in the second paragraph, but if I am, IMO unfortunately there is a lot of "I get it" towards the climate and autocrats in particular, which is exactly why too little is being done on the former and too many of the latter are in power.

I'm trying to say if any other age group was acting irresponsible towards covid by having parties and the like we wouldn't be trying to make excuses based on life issues for them, even though they too might be worried about climate issues and the economy etc etc... 

 

Muh Engrish skills sadly lack for nuace. 

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

I'm trying to say if any other age group was acting irresponsible towards covid by having parties and the like we wouldn't be trying to make excuses based on life issues for them, even though they too might be worried about climate issues and the economy etc etc... 

 

Muh Engrish skills sadly lack for nuace. 

Ah, now I get it.

 

I think there's been an awful lot of irresponsibility regarding Covid in the UK from a lot of people for a lot of different reasons, and it mostly boils down to self interest, whether that's a student wanting to make what they believe is the most of university life, someone not wearing a mask in shop because of their own belief in personal freedom, or someone else driving halfway across the country and violating lockdown regs for personal reasons.

 

Can only speak for myself here, but I'd rather look at it from an individual perspective rather than groups.

[Innovindil]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Can only speak for myself here, but I'd rather look at it from an individual perspective rather than groups.

Add me to that list. Don't give a monkey what age they are. 

[theessexfox]

 This might have come up before, but a really interesting finding which could and should really challenge the way we see transmission of the virus. Not sure of the implications for policy if these findings were proven to be true.

[WigstonWanderer]

13 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

They haven't shut their borders so people can come in, but anyone coming in - Korean or otherwise - has to stay in a quarantine facility (or in case of resident in their own home after taking designated transportation there) for 14 days and get two negative tests before being given the OK.

 

Lockdowns, for me, work when they're well-targetted and you don't have that many cases to deal with anyway. Korea have been superb at dealing with the localised outbreaks as they happen and thus keeping the number down from the start.

Yes I’ve come to the conclusion that a lockdown has to have some end purpose. Either:

 

- To protect health services from being overwhelmed (as in the UK and elsewhere initially), or

 

- To try to drive numbers down sufficiently to allow Test & Trace to take over and keep infections low (as in Eastern states of Australia, S. Korea, etc), or

 

- To try to eliminate the virus as in other parts of Australia & New Zealand.

 

I can’t see how the latter two options can work without some sort of strict border controls. Test and Trace, at least in Australia seems to get overwhelmed quite quickly with relatively low rates of infections, so I just don’t see how it would ever be possible in the UK, especially now that compliance with restrictions seems to be breaking down.

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

 This might have come up before, but a really interesting finding which could and should really challenge the way we see transmission of the virus. Not sure of the implications for policy if these findings were proven to be true.

Interesting. However, unless you're able to tell in real time (and real time rather than after the fact is the important part there) who spreads the virus and who doesn't, then it must be assumed that all people that have Covid spread it until proven otherwise, which is where we're at now.

[Fox92]

All the areas/spikes they speak about are all midlands and further. Nothing south of Birmingham have specific lockdowns.

[Mickyblueeyes]

Just looking at the Sky News map for new restrictions and see Blaby is an area of concern but Oadby and Wigston no longer on the list. Didnt know positions had changed on both parts. What has occurred to make Blaby an area of concern.

[CosbehFox]

3 hours ago, filbertway said:

Genuinely think they're trying to slowly put the whole country into lockdown. The north's basically been covered. It'll be the midlands and south west by November. Then the south east and south coast. Then maybe London for a week or two.

There's a tier system coming in which makes things clearer thankfully. Basically over 100 positive cases per 100,000 then you are Tier 2 and no mixing households. 

[rachhere]

2 hours ago, theessexfox said:

 This might have come up before, but a really interesting finding which could and should really challenge the way we see transmission of the virus. Not sure of the implications for policy if these findings were proven to be true.

Not sure how this is the case as they were saying the evidence showed that the majority of transmissions have been within households?