Coronavirus Thread

[VLC86]

Well dispatches has made me angry again. Reminding me of the utter shambles that this has been.

[WigstonWanderer]

Might I respectfully suggest that more contentious political aspects of this subject are discussed in the Politics thread, and leave this one for information and discussion of scientific aspects? Just don’t want to get it locked again.

[VLC86]

1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Might I respectfully suggest that more contentious political aspects of this subject are discussed in the Politics thread, and leave this one for information and discussion of scientific aspects? Just don’t want to get it locked again.

I’m not venturing into the nether zone.

[WigstonWanderer]

5 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

I’m not venturing into the nether zone.

Wasn’t aimed at anyone in particular, rather just that the last few pages have been getting more political in tone and perhaps obscuring more information stuff. I thought we all started off rather well with politics going into the appropriate thread but seem to have veered off a little.

[st albans fox]

The area between foresight and hindsight is generally a very grey one ..........

Edited 4 June 2020 by st albans fox

[Nalis]

8 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

Well dispatches has made me angry again. Reminding me of the utter shambles that this has been.

Yeah decided to give it a miss as I knew I would feel exactly the same way if I watched it. 

 

In other news, Iran appear to be getting their second wave, more so in terms of cases rather than deaths:

 

https://gulfnews.com/world/mena/second-wave-of-covid-19-infections-hits-in-iran-1.1591201475890

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/iran/

 

From what I've read, restrictions were relaxed to boost the economy which I imagine is more hand to mouth in Iran than in the UK, no disrespect intended. So maybe lifting restrictions prevented more deaths via lack of income.

 

Nonetheless, will be interesting to see if deaths start to increase rapidly as a result.

[VLC86]

55 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

The area between foresight and hindsight is generally a very grey one ..........

It doesn’t take the benefit of hindsight to realise that some glaring errors were made. 

[StanSP]

Blame whoever the fvck you want but someone needs to be held accountable for the shit show that has got us to this point. 

 

[StanSP]

 

 

[FoxesDeb]

59 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Blame whoever the fvck you want but someone needs to be held accountable for the shit show that has got us to this point. 

 

There are many, many variables between those countries though, it is very misleading to do direct comparisons in that format 

[String fellow]

The day after Parliament voted to abandon its own virtual voting system, it looks like the Business Secretary Alok Sharma could have the illness. Presumably, we'll continue to see the bizarre sight now of a mile-long queue of MPs outside the chamber waiting to vote. Apart from being an incredible waste of everyone's time, does this not also pose a security threat?   

[BKLFox]

56 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

 

Why aren't we quarantining people that fly into the UK it makes no sense.....why are we quarantining people that fly into the UK it makes no sense

[Alf Bentley]

7 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Why aren't we quarantining people that fly into the UK it makes no sense.....why are we quarantining people that fly into the UK it makes no sense

 

Back when Covid19 was rampant in China, Iran, Italy and Spain but was at low levels in the UK (3 months ago), quarantining incoming travellers might have been wise.

 

Now that infection levels in the UK are higher than almost anywhere in Europe or Asia (though not the Americas), it makes little sense to quarantine people arriving from less infected countries?  

[Finnaldo]

11 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Why aren't we quarantining people that fly into the UK it makes no sense.....why are we quarantining people that fly into the UK it makes no sense

I think the difference is, this would have made a good policy in March/April, at the beginning of lockdown. 
 

Other countries have since designed more sophisticated ways to maintain air travel. Boris has simultaneously asked for European retail workers, and told them we’re going to contain them two weeks before they can actually start work. It seems rather counter-productive.

Rather on brand, we’ve been caught meandering on an action, and we’ve only addressed it months later with a plan which is archaic by international standards. Furlough and worker retention scheme is one of the few things the government got right on time and even that left some self-employed folks burnt to an extent.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

The momentum behind "social distancing", "isolation" etc has completely dissipated now between the Cummings episode and the protests yesterday. Both sides of the spectrum now have a tangible point of reference to ask themselves "why am I bothering" to confirm with the guidelines. 

 

Best case scenario now is to keep the deaths about where they are now until there's a vaccine. Grim. 

[StanSP]

17 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Why aren't we quarantining people that fly into the UK it makes no sense.....why are we quarantining people that fly into the UK it makes no sense

Very basic from you. 

 

 

[davieG]

4 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Back when Covid19 was rampant in China, Iran, Italy and Spain but was at low levels in the UK (3 months ago), quarantining incoming travellers might have been wise.

 

Now that infection levels in the UK are higher than almost anywhere in Europe or Asia (though not the Americas), it makes little sense to quarantine people arriving from less infected countries?  

I'm confused by this weren't those flying in previously instructed to self isolate for 7 or 10 (?) days. Is this only different because it's now a 'law'?

[davieG]

3 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

"why am I bothering" to confirm with the guidelines. 

This is something I don't understand people should be following the guidelines for their own and their families safety not because it's a law. 

 

It's almost a case of It's my party/protest and I'll die if I want to.

 

[Finnaldo]

4 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

The momentum behind "social distancing", "isolation" etc has completely dissipated now between the Cummings episode and the protests yesterday. Both sides of the spectrum now have a tangible point of reference to ask themselves "why am I bothering" to confirm with the guidelines. 

 

Best case scenario now is to keep the deaths about where they are now until there's a vaccine. Grim. 

I think the big prelude as well was the park ruling and VE Day. Absolutely bizarre telling people they could have a picnic at the park or the beach, was only ever going to lead what we saw over the last few weeks, and leaving people stewing until the Monday whilst rumours went about of restrictions being lifted rather than just telling them Thursday meant people did whatever the fvck they wanted and we saw some of the ridiculous scenes over VE Day. Cummings and the marches are just the nail in the coffin to any authority in my opinion.

[Alf Bentley]

7 minutes ago, davieG said:

I'm confused by this weren't those flying in previously instructed to self isolate for 7 or 10 (?) days. Is this only different because it's now a 'law'?

 

Under the quarantine plan, those flying in will have to designate an address and stay there, potentially being subject to checks and fines, I think.

 

I lose track of things, but as I recall people flying in previously were just subject to the same rules as all other residents: limit trips to necessary shopping & exercise, self-isolate completely only if showing symptoms etc.

 

So, the plan is that we gradually loosen restrictions for residents of the UK (still the most infected in Europe - apart perhaps from Russia?), while tightening restrictions for people arriving from less infected countries or Brits visiting less infected countries? 

 

Anyway, it's starting to sound that if the plan goes ahead, it will only last for a couple of weeks so that the Govt can save face, before some pretext is found for cancelling it again.

[BKLFox]

5 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Back when Covid19 was rampant in China, Iran, Italy and Spain but was at low levels in the UK (3 months ago), quarantining incoming travellers might have been wise.

 

Now that infection levels in the UK are higher than almost anywhere in Europe or Asia (though not the Americas), it makes little sense to quarantine people arriving from less infected countries?  

 

5 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I think the difference is, this would have made a good policy in March/April, at the beginning of lockdown. 
 

Other countries have since designed more sophisticated ways to maintain air travel. Boris has simultaneously asked for European retail workers, and told them we’re going to contain them two weeks before they can actually start work. It seems rather counter-productive.

Rather on brand, we’ve been caught meandering on an action, and we’ve only addressed it months later with a plan which is archaic by international standards. Furlough and worker retention scheme is one of the few things the government got right on time and even that left some self-employed folks burnt to an extent.

 

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

Very basic from you. 

 

 

Honestly guys i am not disputing there should have been more control / quarantining at the start but if we are finally starting to get on top of this from within the UK doesn't it make sense to quarantine anyone coming from outside the UK.

If the approach is well its here now so it doesn't matter, surely then to a degree, the same can be said from the start as it was already here well before any country started to lockdown. Surely just because the horse has bolted once there is no reason to not learn & never shut the gate

I just get the impression now that for the media the bed is made, if Boris Yings they Yang & if he Yangs they Ying

[Dahnsouff]

10 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I think the big prelude as well was the park ruling and VE Day. Absolutely bizarre telling people they could have a picnic at the park or the beach, was only ever going to lead what we saw over the last few weeks, and leaving people stewing until the Monday whilst rumours went about of restrictions being lifted rather than just telling them Thursday meant people did whatever the fvck they wanted and we saw some of the ridiculous scenes over VE Day. Cummings and the marches are just the nail in the coffin to any authority in my opinion.

Kind if agree with you, but I am still at a loss as to why a Government needs to tell adults to behave like.....well, adults? Our continuing unwillingness to accept any level of personal responsibility in this crisis is totally mind blowing too me. 

(Although reading this back makes me realise it may refer to outliers than the public at large)

 

Cummings I will admit was not a helpful scenario, but even that relates to the point above

Edited 4 June 2020 by Dahnsouff

[Wymsey]

Some small business owners are struggling with mental health during this period.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52913066

[Alf Bentley]

1 minute ago, BKLFox said:

 

 

Honestly guys i am not disputing there should have been more control / quarantining at the start but if we are finally starting to get on top of this from within the UK doesn't it make sense to quarantine anyone coming from outside the UK.

If the approach is well its here now so it doesn't matter, surely then to a degree, the same can be said from the start as it was already here well before any country started to lockdown. Surely just because the horse has bolted once there is no reason to not learn & never shut the gate

I just get the impression now that for the media the bed is made, if Boris Yings they Yang & if he Yangs they Ying

 

If it makes sense to quarantine anyone coming from outside the UK, surely logically it makes even more sense to quarantine anyone already in the UK, as infection rates here are still higher (though falling)?

If the argument is that careful loosening of restrictions within the UK is necessary for economic reasons, surely that also applies to people arriving from abroad (foreign tourists coming to spend money, returning Brits wanting to go back to work etc.)?

 

I'm certainly not saying "it's here now so it doesn't matter". Although there's some positive news (e.g. possible weakening of virus), I'm very uneasy about the loosening that's happening in the UK - the "things are returning to normal" message more than the measures. We've seen the response to that on beaches and at protests. 

 

The same can't be said about the start. Before other countries locked down, the virus was present at much lower levels in the UK so would have been easier to address with better testing, tracing, protection etc. At that stage, when the virus was much more prevalent in France, Spain, Italy etc, it would have made sense to test incoming passengers and/or to order them to quarantine to limit further infection - at a time when foreign arrivals were a greater risk than locals, as opposed to now when they are a lesser risk than locals!

 

To extend your bolting horse analogy.... You seem to be recommending that, now the horse has bolted we should shut the gate so that it (the now largely uninfected foreign horse) struggles to get back in, while we extend a hole in the fence so that more horses (infected British horses) can escape that way.   

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

To extend your bolting horse analogy.... You seem to be recommending that, now the horse has bolted we should shut the gate so that it (the now largely uninfected foreign horse) struggles to get back in, while we extend a hole in the fence so that more horses (infected British horses) can escape that way.   

Take it to the Brexit thread