Coronavirus Thread

[Alf Bentley]

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Take it to the Brexit thread 

 

Royal Ascot 2020 thread would be more appropriate, surely? 

[Finnaldo]

32 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Kind if agree with you, but I am still at a loss as to why a Government needs to tell adults to behave like.....well, adults? Our continuing unwillingness to accept any level of personal responsibility in this crisis is totally mind blowing too me. 

(Although reading this back makes me realise it may refer to outliers than the public at large)

 

Cummings I will admit was not a helpful scenario, but even that relates to the point above

Same reason we have speeding laws, littering fines etc: there’s too many fvcking idiots not to have these in place. 
 

In an ideal world, we wouldn’t have need for any low level public behavioural laws or penalties, because people would know how to behave and interact in public like well-adjusted human beings. However the fact is in every society there’s a subsection of morons, distinct of class or background, who believe that the rules or normal human decency does not apply to them. 
 

The issue is that once the rest of society sees this behaviour, it becomes normalised to an extent. Very few spanners slam it down the M1 at 100mph, but some people see that and know going so fast is dangerous and stupid, but think “If that idiot can go that fast and not get caught, why can’t I go 80 or 90? It’s not AS dangerous”. Morons will completely flounder rules at any given opportunity, a good portion of society will tepidly follow them knowing it’s almost unenforceable to catch every rule breaker. 
 

The issue is, in a pandemic those stakes are raised. For the police, enforcing lockdown is even less practical than catching every speeder. There’s going to be the obvious whoppers throwing massive parties in their house which are easy pickings, but how do you enforce every park or beach in the country sticks to social distancing? Folks know that, and although they’re often well-meaning to begin with, they get sucked in with the morons when they know they won’t be castigated. 
 

Lockdown is ultimately an illusion of control, if everyone decided “fvck it, I’m not locking down” there’s precious little they can do about it. It’s very much give an inch, take a mile, and I think the government have overlooked that massively, perhaps in some cases for a bit of good PR.

[Voll Blau]

Quote

This week Spain reported what should have been cause for huge celebrations: according to the official coronavirus statistics, there were no new deaths in the 48 hours to midday on Tuesday.

 

Yet on the same day, at least two regions — Madrid and Castile-La Mancha — reported 17 deaths from the virus between them. The health ministry insisted it had not been informed of any death that had taken place in the previous 24 hours.

 

The confusion, in one of the countries worst hit by the pandemic, underlines what experts say is a big challenge as Spain relaxes its lockdown: a misleading impression that the coronavirus threat is past, which could encourage people to behave recklessly.

https://www.ft.com/content/77eb7a13-cd26-41dd-9642-616708b43673

 

Sorry to be the "negative" guy again, but it's really so dangerous that people are being misled like this - wherever they are in the world.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

42 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Kind if agree with you, but I am still at a loss as to why a Government needs to tell adults to behave like.....well, adults? Our continuing unwillingness to accept any level of personal responsibility in this crisis is totally mind blowing too me. 

(Although reading this back makes me realise it may refer to outliers than the public at large)

 

Cummings I will admit was not a helpful scenario, but even that relates to the point above

The problem is as I see it, the guidelines have been a shambles ever since being slightly relaxed. I can go to a packed beach, a packed park, a packed garden centre etc etc but I can't (can now but couldn't for a long time) meet someone in my garden. Going to Knighton Park to meet my friend was a shit show, people cycling right past, kids running round my ankles, drunks gathered in large groups doing what they want. That same day I sat in my dad's back garden for a few hours (wasn't allowed to at the time) and it was completely safe, nobody else about to worry about, no chance of me getting too close to him or anyone else. Since then I've followed my own rules, which whatever the government says, has been much safer than meeting people in public spaces and I feel like I've done the right thing, my mental health has got so much better (was really struggling at one point) and I've never put myself in a dangerous situation, which I would have done had I continued to meet people at parks, whatever people on here might think I know what I did was safer than the guidelines. 

[Dahnsouff]

11 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Same reason we have speeding laws, littering fines etc: there’s too many fvcking idiots not to have these in place. 
 

In an ideal world, we wouldn’t have need for any low level public behavioural laws or penalties, because people would know how to behave and interact in public like well-adjusted human beings. However the fact is in every society there’s a subsection of morons, distinct of class or background, who believe that the rules or normal human decency does not apply to them. 
 

The issue is that once the rest of society sees this behaviour, it becomes normalised to an extent. Very few spanners slam it down the M1 at 100mph, but some people see that and know going so fast is dangerous and stupid, but think “If that idiot can go that fast and not get caught, why can’t I go 80 or 90? It’s not AS dangerous”. Morons will completely flounder rules at any given opportunity, a good portion of society will tepidly follow them knowing it’s almost unenforceable to catch every rule breaker. 
 

The issue is, in a pandemic those stakes are raised. For the police, enforcing lockdown is even less practical than catching every speeder. There’s going to be the obvious whoppers throwing massive parties in their house which are easy pickings, but how do you enforce every park or beach in the country sticks to social distancing? Folks know that, and although they’re often well-meaning to begin with, they get sucked in with the morons when they know they won’t be castigated. 
 

Lockdown is ultimately an illusion of control, if everyone decided “fvck it, I’m not locking down” there’s precious little they can do about it. It’s very much give an inch, take a mile, and I think the government have overlooked that massively, perhaps in some cases for a bit of good PR.

Cannot disagree with much of that, and it is equal in measure as valid as it is disappointing nonetheless.  

If we permanently exist in a mindset of "how do I get around these guidelines/laws/restrictions" than we are actually not willingly participating at all I would suggest. As all we actually doing is constantly looking for an escape route, and this, perhaps more than anything else is indicative of a Governmental failure.

[Nalis]

26 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Lockdown is ultimately an illusion of control, if everyone decided “fvck it, I’m not locking down” there’s precious little they can do about it. It’s very much give an inch, take a mile, and I think the government have overlooked that massively, perhaps in some cases for a bit of good PR.

I honesty think thats why the guidance states a 2 metre distance between people rather than 1 metre like in other countries.

[Finnaldo]

23 minutes ago, Nalis said:

I honesty think thats why the guidance states a 2 metre distance between people rather than 1 metre like in other countries.

That’s very true, it’s probably underlooked but if it’s intentional it’s a smart move. 

I live with an extremely vulnerable person so I’ve been pretty much sticking with initial lockdown rules throughout, to keep sane I tend to walk a few miles a day. I’ve bumped into mates on a couple occasions and it makes you realise how easy it is without markers like in shopping lines to subconsciously drawn in to someone over the length of even a short conversation, you catch yourself and have to recorrect. 
 

The issue is, any good that’s done has been impeded with the picnic ruling. Anyone not having to think of an immediately vulnerable person to take into consideration, meeting their mate down the park/beach, that’s already packed and a bit squeezed, and factor in a couple beers...

 

I think it’s made people far too casual, and that’s a massive own goal if we want to avoid a second lockdown.

[StanSP]

Huh? 

 

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Huh? 

 

Just like footballers aren't having to self isolate if one of their team mates have tested positive right?

 

They should be able to be tested on a regular basis.

[StanSP]

2 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Just like footballers aren't having to self isolate if one of their team mates have tested positive right?

 

They should be able to be tested on a regular basis.

Maybe footballers should. 

 

Doesn't make it right that people who have been in close contact with Sharma should be able to forego the rules set out for everyone else. 

 

[StanSP]

 

[filbertway]

Just now, StanSP said:

Maybe footballers should. 

 

Doesn't make it right that people who have been in close contact with Sharma should be able to forego the rules set out for everyone else. 

To be honest I think they keep shooting themselves in the foot by making blanket rules, same with the quarantining. We should be developing ways to let people know quickly if they need to isolate. I think it's a lazy approach. So I understand where you're coming from.

 

I think the overriding thing for me is that if people have important jobs, have access to being tested on a regular basis and are maintaining social distancing. In my mind these people should be allowed to continue you their work unless they test positive.

 

[twoleftfeet]

3 hours ago, Nalis said:

I honesty think thats why the guidance states a 2 metre distance between people rather than 1 metre like in other countries.

That and we are rubbish at judging distances

[StanSP]

2 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I think the overriding thing for me is that if people have important jobs, have access to being tested on a regular basis and are maintaining social distancing. In my mind these people should be allowed to continue you their work unless they test positive

That's the thing though. The tweet and article says they will continue to work even if he tests positive. I get that people have important jobs and work to go to, even with social distancing. But it puts a mockery on the rules they themselves set if they just turn a blind eye to it and say 'sorry, our colleague we've been in contact with has tested positive, but we are making the decision to carry on working anyway'. 

 

Bit of a slap in the face for the test, track, and isolate app as well surely? If I'm right in thinking, that app let's you know if you've been in contact with someone and you have to isolate. Therefore, you have to presumably stay at home and not go out and about where you could infect others. They want to keep the R rate down, right? So in their scenario, if Sharma tests positive and they continue to go to work in parliament, are they not risking the spread to their colleagues (there were moments social distancing was not applied, it's well documented what Westminster is like) and therefore their colleague's families too, and in turn spreading it around. Precisely the thing they want to avoid. 

[hackneyfox]

5 minutes ago, StanSP said:

That's the thing though. The tweet and article says they will continue to work even if he tests positive. I get that people have important jobs and work to go to, even with social distancing. But it puts a mockery on the rules they themselves set if they just turn a blind eye to it and say 'sorry, our colleague we've been in contact with has tested positive, but we are making the decision to carry on working anyway'. 

 

 

Everyone seems to think they're an important cog in the machine and could use this as a reason to not self-isolate.

It also allows bosses to put undue pressure on employees.

[Nalis]

3 minutes ago, hackneyfox said:

Everyone seems to think they're an important cog in the machine and could use this as a reason to not self-isolate.

It also allows bosses to put undue pressure on employees.

Thats what the fear is, if both dont self isolate they are sending out this message.

 

If Sunak self isolates but Boris doesnt, then the govt is sending out the message that self isolation isnt necessary if you already had coronavirus.

[hackneyfox]

7 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Thats what the fear is, if both dont self isolate they are sending out this message.

 

If Sunak self isolates but Boris doesnt, then the govt is sending out the message that self isolation isnt necessary if you already had coronavirus.

Wriggle room:

Although it is not yet known if Mr Sharma has contracted coronavirus, if his test comes back positive, the government advice is for his "close contacts" to self-isolate for 14 days.

Those who count as close contacts are either:

• People you spend 15 minutes or more with at a distance of less than 2m

The PM's official spokesman said those at the Downing Street meeting "were all 2m apart".

[String fellow]

Apparently, there's now a track-and-trace phone scam. Someone rings up and tells you that you've been in contact with an infected person. Because the infected person isn't allowed to be identified, the caller tricks you into thinking that you must obtain a testing kit costing £500. They then demand to know your bank details.

[brucey]

Professor Positive now has his very own newspaper column on the back of his Twitter fame. 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

10 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Apparently, there's now a track-and-trace phone scam. Someone rings up and tells you that you've been in contact with an infected person. Because the infected person isn't allowed to be identified, the caller tricks you into thinking that you must obtain a testing kit costing £500. They then demand to know your bank details.

Sadly many dumb people will no doubt fall for this.

 

8 minutes ago, brucey said:

Professor Positive now has his very own newspaper column on the back of his Twitter fame. 

Excellent news. Nice to have some balance in the media to offset the rampant misery.

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

That's the thing though. The tweet and article says they will continue to work even if he tests positive. I get that people have important jobs and work to go to, even with social distancing. But it puts a mockery on the rules they themselves set if they just turn a blind eye to it and say 'sorry, our colleague we've been in contact with has tested positive, but we are making the decision to carry on working anyway'. 

 

Bit of a slap in the face for the test, track, and isolate app as well surely? If I'm right in thinking, that app let's you know if you've been in contact with someone and you have to isolate. Therefore, you have to presumably stay at home and not go out and about where you could infect others. They want to keep the R rate down, right? So in their scenario, if Sharma tests positive and they continue to go to work in parliament, are they not risking the spread to their colleagues (there were moments social distancing was not applied, it's well documented what Westminster is like) and therefore their colleague's families too, and in turn spreading it around. Precisely the thing they want to avoid. 

I meant the people themselves, not people they've come into contact with.

 

I'd prefer that they continued working myself. Keep getting tested daily and if the results return positive then self isolate. I do wonder how long they plan to use this method though, in it's current format it's terrible. If someone in an office of say 8 people, tests positive, does this mean everybody that has been in the office now has to isolate. Areas of the country will grind to an absolute halt won't they?

 

Also it'd be very interesting to see if Johnson is immune or not now.

[bovril]

Great that Johnson and his cabinet are leading by example by continuing to give up their bodies for science. Herd immunity in no time. Sterling work. 

[StanSP]

Hope this isn't too positive for some people

 

 

[Nalis]

8 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Hope this isn't too positive for some people

 

 

I think his middle sentence devalues the rest of what he is saying somewhat.

 

Think we just have to accept our death toll is one of the highest in Europe regardless of the methodology but at the same time we cant change the past so all we can do is look at what we can do to improve things moving forward.

 

But yes, trend is encouraging.

Edited 4 June 2020 by Nalis

[UniFox21]

Shock horror, BA not happy with something that could potentially put people off flying