Coronavirus Thread

[Babylon]

17 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

That’s true but we have data to show 2x vaccines give high protection.

We have a small amount of data.
 

As people told us a page ago, we test way more now then we ever did. 
 

Now I’m just musing here, does that also mean it’s hard to compare the case/hospitalisation rate then compared to now?
 

eg. 
First wave 500 out of every 10000 Covid cases got admitted (but really it was 100,000 cases as we couldn’t test everyone)

 

Yet now say 50 out of every 10000 go to hospital (and it is 10,000 cases as we test everyone). 
 

It looks better, and everyone cheers... but is essentially the same, we are just far earlier in the process then the first wave. 
 

Even second wave we are testing at least twice the amount daily we were then. so this is where all their models come in over the numbers we get reported to us, where they are estimating how many did have it etc.

 

Could account for the caution?

 

*made up numbers to easily show make the point / ask the question. 
 

 

[reynard]

On 11/06/2021 at 22:01, Harrydc said:

Well I'm sick of false promises, so June 21st is my 'freedom' day. 

Well for a start it was made quite clear that 21st June was not guaranteed. Right now we are at a crucial point in the battle to get back to normality. We have a new variant that looks like it is more transmissable and perhaps more likely to cause people severe illness. Possibly the vaccines are working ok against it but we really need a few more weeks to be more sure that this is the case.

Could the government have done a better job at closing out borders to international travel and helped prevent/delay the spread then yes they could have. But right now a short delay to asses the situation more and also give time for more people to be vaccinated seems a perfectly sensible suggestion. We also need to understand that full protection levels from vaccination takes around 14 days after the second dose and three weeks after the first dose to kick in.

I understand from your posts that you've found things difficult and that is understandable but right now you can go to the pub, visit friends and family, holiday in the UK, go to the gym, go to a restaurant, go to the shops, schools are fully open, etc etc.

Yes there are still some restrictions but things are a lot better than they were. Hospitals are now starting the huge task of catching up with the millions of delayed treatments people require.

I think people need to be realistic that there are going to be some form of restrictions for quite a while yet. Masks may need to be worn in some places for months to come but really that isn't such a big deal. Full scale international travel probably won't return for another 12 months at least.

Eventually we will learn to live with this disease. It will likely become endemic in the same that flu is and managed through an ongoing vaccination process but this will take a while and the virus will continue to  mutate over time but hopefully as well as vaccines we will develop drugs and treaments to mitigate against this.

 

Right now we just need to be patient a little bit longer.

[Nick]

1 hour ago, reynard said:

Well for a start it was made quite clear that 21st June was not guaranteed. Right now we are at a crucial point in the battle to get back to normality. We have a new variant that looks like it is more transmissable and perhaps more likely to cause people severe illness. Possibly the vaccines are working ok against it but we really need a few more weeks to be more sure that this is the case.

Could the government have done a better job at closing out borders to international travel and helped prevent/delay the spread then yes they could have. But right now a short delay to asses the situation more and also give time for more people to be vaccinated seems a perfectly sensible suggestion. We also need to understand that full protection levels from vaccination takes around 14 days after the second dose and three weeks after the first dose to kick in.

I understand from your posts that you've found things difficult and that is understandable but right now you can go to the pub, visit friends and family, holiday in the UK, go to the gym, go to a restaurant, go to the shops, schools are fully open, etc etc.

Yes there are still some restrictions but things are a lot better than they were. Hospitals are now starting the huge task of catching up with the millions of delayed treatments people require.

I think people need to be realistic that there are going to be some form of restrictions for quite a while yet. Masks may need to be worn in some places for months to come but really that isn't such a big deal. Full scale international travel probably won't return for another 12 months at least.

Eventually we will learn to live with this disease. It will likely become endemic in the same that flu is and managed through an ongoing vaccination process but this will take a while and the virus will continue to  mutate over time but hopefully as well as vaccines we will develop drugs and treaments to mitigate against this.

 

Right now we just need to be patient a little bit longer.

Great post.

[Nick]

Saw my mate the other day. His wife got Covid 8 months ago. Since then she developed long Covid. He's basically a full time carer now for a woman he can barely recognise as the same person. 

 

If that's not motivation to get yourself a couple of vaccines before going out to play then there you go. Sick of listening to the self-entitled whine about 'freedom day' and liberty restriction conspiracy theories. 

[slymunn]

53 minutes ago, Nick said:

Saw my mate the other day. His wife got Covid 8 months ago. Since then she developed long Covid. He's basically a full time carer now for a woman he can barely recognise as the same person. 

 

If that's not motivation to get yourself a couple of vaccines before going out to play then there you go. Sick of listening to the self-entitled whine about 'freedom day' and liberty restriction conspiracy theories. 

Couldn't agree more. 

 

My best friend who was 35 died from covid in December. No health issues but a big lad as he played rugby. Had two young kids and a partner.

 

It's not myself I'm too worried about with covid but my more vulnerable friends and family. 

 

Had my first vaccine and hoping the second isn't all that far away.

[Nick]

Just now, slymunn said:

Couldn't agree more. 

 

My best friend who was 35 died from covid in December. No health issues but a big lad as he played rugby. Had two young kids and a partner.

 

It's not myself I'm too worried about with covid but my more vulnerable friends and family. 

 

Had my first vaccine and hoping the second isn't all that far away.

Sorry to hear that buddy. My mates wife was a professional dancer and dance teacher and fit and healthy and now can’t climb the stairs more than a couple of times a day. It must be horrible.

[slymunn]

8 minutes ago, Nick said:

Sorry to hear that buddy. My mates wife was a professional dancer and dance teacher and fit and healthy and now can’t climb the stairs more than a couple of times a day. It must be horrible.

It still gets me how differently it can affect people. 

 

Some can just sit at home and like back to normal within days and some just never recover.

[Nalis]

2 hours ago, reynard said:

Well for a start it was made quite clear that 21st June was not guaranteed. Right now we are at a crucial point in the battle to get back to normality. We have a new variant that looks like it is more transmissable and perhaps more likely to cause people severe illness. Possibly the vaccines are working ok against it but we really need a few more weeks to be more sure that this is the case.

Could the government have done a better job at closing out borders to international travel and helped prevent/delay the spread then yes they could have. But right now a short delay to asses the situation more and also give time for more people to be vaccinated seems a perfectly sensible suggestion. We also need to understand that full protection levels from vaccination takes around 14 days after the second dose and three weeks after the first dose to kick in.

I understand from your posts that you've found things difficult and that is understandable but right now you can go to the pub, visit friends and family, holiday in the UK, go to the gym, go to a restaurant, go to the shops, schools are fully open, etc etc.

Yes there are still some restrictions but things are a lot better than they were. Hospitals are now starting the huge task of catching up with the millions of delayed treatments people require.

I think people need to be realistic that there are going to be some form of restrictions for quite a while yet. Masks may need to be worn in some places for months to come but really that isn't such a big deal. Full scale international travel probably won't return for another 12 months at least.

Eventually we will learn to live with this disease. It will likely become endemic in the same that flu is and managed through an ongoing vaccination process but this will take a while and the virus will continue to  mutate over time but hopefully as well as vaccines we will develop drugs and treaments to mitigate against this.

 

Right now we just need to be patient a little bit longer.

Good post.

 

Around early May it still felt a bit early to have no restrictions whatsoever on June 21st. There doesnt need to be anymore closing up of society but waiting a few more weeks while more people get their 1st / 2nd jab before opening up completely could make a big difference long term.

[StanSP]

 

 

 

[Shane]

24 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

 

 

 

Seeing these images sort of feels like the Dominic Cummings eye test scandal. Before his stunt I felt like people were taking lockdown seriously. But afterwards people started to break the rules. 

 

After seeing G7 not social distancing, having more than 30people at a bbq, laughing and joking with the queen who is surely in a at risk category, why would you bother following their rules? They are taking the piss out of us.

[Legend_in_blue]

New statistics, aka exaggerated projections.  The latest papers from Professor Lockdown will make an interesting read tomorrow afternoon assuming they are released as lockdown measures are extended.  And until next Spring if another tabloid is to believed.  

Edited 13 June 2021 by Legend_in_blue

[Babylon]

28 minutes ago, Shane said:

 

Seeing these images sort of feels like the Dominic Cummings eye test scandal. Before his stunt I felt like people were taking lockdown seriously. But afterwards people started to break the rules. 

 

After seeing G7 not social distancing, having more than 30people at a bbq, laughing and joking with the queen who is surely in a at risk category, why would you bother following their rules? They are taking the piss out of us.

What rules do you think they broke exactly?

[Babylon]

34 minutes ago, Shane said:

 

Seeing these images sort of feels like the Dominic Cummings eye test scandal. Before his stunt I felt like people were taking lockdown seriously. But afterwards people started to break the rules. 

 

After seeing G7 not social distancing, having more than 30people at a bbq, laughing and joking with the queen who is surely in a at risk category, why would you bother following their rules? They are taking the piss out of us.

 

Stop listening to liars, pretending to be truth bringers.

 

Remember how footballers can jet from country to country without quarantine and we are all happy about that because it benefits us?

 

A simple google would tell you masses of jobs are except from quarantine. And that whilst working rules are entirely different.

 

These people are either stupid or purposely lying to you.

[Facecloth]

4 minutes ago, Babylon said:

What rules do you think they broke exactly?

All flying in from various countries and not quarantining. No masks. No social distancing. Too many people in a gathering. These people aren't immune from it. Johnson caught it. Trump ( who I know isn't president anymore) got it. Hasn't Hancock or Gove had it twice?

 

There's not reason a meeting like this can't be done over a secure video meeting.

[Babylon]

8 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

All flying in from various countries and not quarantining. No masks. No social distancing. Too many people in a gathering. These people aren't immune from it. Johnson caught it. Trump ( who I know isn't president anymore) got it. Hasn't Hancock or Gove had it twice?

 

There's not reason a meeting like this can't be done over a secure video meeting.

So no rules were broken then. There is a list of jobs you don’t need quarantine for, and social distancing is guidance changed with the relaxations to “people you are not meeting with”. It’s also their jobs, which entirely changes the guidance once again to be more relaxed. Or do you think everyone sits with a mask on all day at work? (They don’t and they don’t have to).

Edited 13 June 2021 by Babylon

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Babylon said:

So no rules were broken then. There is a list of jobs you don’t need quarantine for, and social distancing is guidance changed with the relaxations to “people you are not meeting with”. It’s also their jobs, which entirely changes the guidance once again to be more relaxed. Or do you think everyone sits with a mask on all day at work? (They don’t and they don’t have to).

Add to that they’re all double vaccinated and likely tested every day ..........  if we were all double vaccinated and properly tested every day then everything would be open ! 
 

 

[Nalis]

Might organise a business meeting in my flat / garden at 2am next Sunday where over 100 people can collaborate in person. Light entertainment will also be provided to stimulate debate and discussion.

[Guest Harrydc]

But has anyone ever heard the term 'lead by example'? 

 

They're playing with us. 

[Guest ttfn]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of it, it is absolutely tone deaf.

[Babylon]

33 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

But has anyone ever heard the term 'lead by example'? 

 

They're playing with us. 

By following the rules? How’s that not leading by example.

[Babylon]

59 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Might organise a business meeting in my flat / garden at 2am next Sunday where over 100 people can collaborate in person. Light entertainment will also be provided to stimulate debate and discussion.

You can already have 30 in your garden with no social distancing.

 

Oh you were trying to be funny.

[Babylon]

31 minutes ago, ttfn said:

Whatever the rights and wrongs of it, it is absolutely tone deaf.

We’ve got thousands of people sat in football grounds, packed gardens, busy pubs and restaurants, rules have changed and they are breaking none.
 

I find it funny how people who usually scream “do research”, “you are being lied to”, “sheep” blah blah blah. Don’t know the actual rules, haven’t researched the rules, and blindly follow people lying to them about it like sheep, and they are the ones screaming and crying. 

[Legend_in_blue]

19 minutes ago, Babylon said:

By following the rules? How’s that not leading by example.

When people look at this on the eve of Boris extending restrictions, it's hardly a good show whether they're following the guidelines or not.

 

It'll rub people up the wrong way.  

 

But as Raab put it this morning, as they're taking part in important government talks, it's not a problem. 

[Guest ttfn]

39 minutes ago, Babylon said:

We’ve got thousands of people sat in football grounds, packed gardens, busy pubs and restaurants, rules have changed and they are breaking none.
 

I find it funny how people who usually scream “do research”, “you are being lied to”, “sheep” blah blah blah. Don’t know the actual rules, haven’t researched the rules, and blindly follow people lying to them about it like sheep, and they are the ones screaming and crying. 

But you have to accept that those people exist and are now an extremely large minority of our population. 

 

People can’t have weddings or funerals with more than 30 people and the PM is hobnobbing with more than that number. You’ll say “it’s not comparable” but the damage is done the moment somebody makes that comparison, and that comparison is inevitable. Some sort of backlash was bound to happen and it’s yet another PR **** up from a government which is doing everything it can to give people an excuse to say “one rule for them, another for everyone else”.

We won’t move forward without the overwhelming majority of people bought into an organised message and this doesn’t help, especially on the eve of extending the existing restrictions. Like it or not there is a PR war to be fought here and the government are wilfully booting the ball into their own goal at every opportunity. Raab’s interview this morning was a case in point.

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, ttfn said:

But you have to accept that those people exist and are now an extremely large minority of our population. 

 

People can’t have weddings or funerals with more than 30 people and the PM is hobnobbing with more than that number. You’ll say “it’s not comparable” but the damage is done the moment somebody makes that comparison, and that comparison is inevitable. Some sort of backlash was bound to happen and it’s yet another PR **** up from a government which is doing everything it can to give people an excuse to say “one rule for them, another for everyone else”.

We won’t move forward without the overwhelming majority of people bought into an organised message and this doesn’t help, especially on the eve of extending the existing restrictions. Like it or not there is a PR war to be fought here and the government are wilfully booting the ball into their own goal at every opportunity. Raab’s interview this morning was a case in point.

I (unfortunately) agree.

 

That perception often trumps fact in the mind perhaps isn't the way things should work, but it is the way things do work. And if you want to get things done, you have to account for that through messaging and communication.

 

Personally I'm just glad that vaccine hesitancy is down to a very low number in the UK and that the anti-vaxxers didn't control the narrative enough there, because that combined with the public feeling now could well have been a recipe for utter disaster.