Coronavirus Thread

[Nalis]

23 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Many, many people have made successful careers from presenting a series of misleading graphs on PPT slides and a false narrative to support them.

 

It's a skill 

 

What's your opinion of people who ask you to go back a slide?

[Babylon]

7 minutes ago, Otis said:

But we have the vaccine so they won't. 

Earth to Otis, 1000's could still die. Large difference between another 100,000 people croaking it an a few thousand. 

[fox_favourite]

I’m fairly convinced that if it wasn’t for this ‘delta’ variant we would be unlocked. Cases seemed steady at around 2k and hospitals and the sad ‘death count’ showed low figures. Considering before the delta variant came along Leicester hospitals recorded not a single death for nearly a month and 5 people in hospital with the virus. That is very manageable. 
 

 Yes, there was an increase, but it looked steady. Delta comes along and screws the whole thing up. The government are partly to blame, but let’s face it, people would have still brought it in. 
 

I’m more and more frustrated at this situation and I’m not going to lie, it has effected me mentally and I hate it. Now they’re saying a headache is a sign! I have had those for months in and off due t lack of sleep! But we are where we are. what we don’t want is the same thing that happened in India to happen here or something close to it or January. 
 

We’ll have a better idea where we are in a couple of weeks time. That’s when we can really assess the situation and have facts rather than projections and guess work. 

Edited 14 June 2021 by fox_favourite

[Soup]

I'll make a prediction now. The vaccines won't end this, vaccine passport's will. 

[Bryn]

Just now, fox_favourite said:

I’m fairly convinced that if it wasn’t for this ‘delta’ variant we would be unlocked. Cases seemed steady at around 2k and hospitals and the sad ‘death count’ showed low figures. Considering before the delta variant came along Leicester hospitals recorded not a single death for nearly a week and 5 people in hospital with the virus. That is very manageable. 
 

 Yes, there was an increase, but it looked steady. Delta comes along and screws the whole thing up. The government are partly to blame, but let’s face it, people would have still brought it in. 
 

I’m more and more frustrated at this situation and I’m not going to lie, it has effected me mentally and I hate it. But we are where we are. what we don’t want is the same thing that happened in India to happen here or something close to it or January. 
 

We’ll have a better idea where we are in a couple of weeks time. That’s when we can really assess the situation and have facts rather than projections and guess work. 

 

Think it's less to do with the virus itself, per se, and more the state the NHS is in. >95% capacity and hardly any of that is COVID, it's just all the other shit that's suddenly appeared out the woodwork. Think they just want another month of vaccinating, especially in areas that are really struggling. Don't think this will rumble on, if anything I think they'll open up sooner than they've said.

[Paninistickers]

I'm kinda interested in the opinion of some.medical professionals on here. 

 

I've got a freind who's a ICU nurse and yesterday was chatting about the fear the department now has to again run out of ventilators soon ....and the dread to have to choose life and death for patients based on point scoring

 

My argument was that twas ever thus. Doctors have surely ALWAYS made tough decisions for patients based on budget and availability. They don't pump.90 year olds with chemotherapy..or put 80 year olds on the waiting list for heart and kidney transplants. They won't do CPR on a dementia patient. 

 

Point is, are hospitals biting off more than they can chew? Some.people may just have to accept that expensive, invasive, time consuming treatment is not a given

 

 

[Babylon]

9 minutes ago, StanSP said:

@Babylon - genuine question - what's the end game for you on this? Does it have to be 0 deaths & hospitalisations to have no restrictions at all? Cases down to 0 as well?

Of course not, and it's not my end game that matters I'm not in charge. What I hope is that another couple of weeks of data just to make sure the data we are getting (which looks promising in terms of deaths), is correct and holds up as the cases sky rocket further. In two weeks I'd hope we are in a position to re-open, even before the new deadline. 

 

The people in charge are responsible for the lives of millions of people, it's very very easy to say throw the shackles off a keyboard warrior. But I'd rather the people in charge of the country play it a bit more cautious. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

58 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

There have been others, but I'm not going to name them, they may since have changed their mind, and anyone who has been following this thread will know who they are. 

 

If by your second point you are referring to me, who had a wobble regarding the vaccine recently based on knowing two people personally who have died in their 30's as a direct result of the vaccine , which has been well documented in this thread, well I think that's a bit of a low blow. 

I wasn't refering to you, I've not seen any posts from you in this thread aside from the one I quoted.

Edited 14 June 2021 by Sol thewall Bamba

[AllGoneTitsSchlupp]

2 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I'm kinda interested in the opinion of some.medical professionals on here. 

 

I've got a freind who's a ICU nurse and yesterday was chatting about the fear the department now has to again run out of ventilators soon ....and the dread to have to choose life and death for patients based on point scoring

 

My argument was that twas ever thus. Doctors have surely ALWAYS made tough decisions for patients based on budget and availability. They don't pump.90 year olds with chemotherapy..or put 80 year olds on the waiting list for heart and kidney transplants. They won't do CPR on a dementia patient. 

 

Point is, are hospitals biting off more than they can chew? Some.people may just have to accept that expensive, invasive, time consuming treatment is not a given

 

 

its almost like criminally underfunding a health service for years and years...and years is coming back to bite us all in the arse

 

the nhs has been mismanaged for years in terms of budget and this was always the case, every year its at "breaking point" so these comments from the nurses etc are nothing new

 

Edited 14 June 2021 by AllGoneTitsSchlupp

[Sol thewall Bamba]

41 minutes ago, Babylon said:

So 250 deaths a month as it stands, the delta is doubling between every 4.5 and 11.5 days. If you take the median then it's every 8 days. And that's with restrictions, with no restrictions it's going to be at the lower end at best. 

 

So 1000's of deaths could quite feasibly be in the pipeline again. 

 

 

Do you think we'll ever get back to normal with the vaccines we have then? Because the variants aren't going away and you seem to be worried that the vaccines won't work well enough.

[Lcfc82]

4 minutes ago, Soup said:

I'll make a prediction now. The vaccines won't end this, vaccine passport's will. 

I think you might be right. There probably just trying to drag the restrictions out until they have got the vaccine passport system set up.

[Otis]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

Earth to Otis, 1000's could still die. Large difference between another 100,000 people croaking it an a few thousand. 

The words Could, Might, Maybe. you're acting like the vaccines don't work.

 

In the 6 months June 2020 to Jan 2021 less then 250 died in the age range 0-39yrs (baring in mind this is without any vaccine)

 

But you are saying 1000's could still die in 1 month (baring in mind some in that age range have had 1 shot & some 2).... I'm not buying that.

 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

We need to stop people from Mexico entering the UK.

 

The Mexican variant comes in waves......

[z-layrex]

8 minutes ago, AllGoneTitsSchlupp said:

its almost like criminally underfunding a health service for years and years...and years is coming back to bite us all in the arse

 

the nhs has been mismanaged for years in terms of budget and this was always the case, every year its at "breaking point" so these comments from the nurses etc are nothing new

 

The last time I had any sort of acredited education that wasn't funded out of my own pocket was 2015. And yet here I am expected to use evidence based practice and be every bit as good as nurses from other developed nations.

Edited 14 June 2021 by z-layrex

[Izzy]

18 minutes ago, Nalis said:

What's your opinion of people who ask you to go back a slide?

They obviously weren't paying attention, so public humiliation usually works 

[Otis]

13 minutes ago, Soup said:

I'll make a prediction now. The vaccines won't end this, vaccine passport's will. 

Vaccine passports are nothing without vaccines.

 

& if/when everyone is vaccinated why would we need a VP to attend an event?

[Babylon]

1 minute ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Do you think we'll ever get back to normal with the vaccines we have then? Because the variants aren't going away and you seem to be worried that the vaccines won't work well enough.

I would think there will continue to be disruption and caution for a year or two yet maybe, if a really shitty variant arrives and the vaccines aren't working as well against it. But, as the experts say the end goal it will be similar to how we deal with the flu, but for everyone and not just the elderly. 

 

[Col city fan]

26 minutes ago, Babylon said:

**** me... nearly a year and a half in a people still think it's the flu. 

It’s a terrible disease but did you know that as many people have died over the past year due to untreated physical illness, as due to covid?

The backlog of people waiting to be seen even for initial appointments is huge and in some cases will be years.

There has to be some compromise

8 deaths in a day, although tragic, is incomparable to the numbers of people who die every single day of other diseases. Eg cancers 

[Otis]

15 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Of course not, and it's not my end game that matters I'm not in charge. What I hope is that another couple of weeks of data just to make sure the data we are getting (which looks promising in terms of deaths), is correct and holds up as the cases sky rocket further. In two weeks I'd hope we are in a position to re-open, even before the new deadline. 

 

The people in charge are responsible for the lives of millions of people, it's very very easy to say throw the shackles off a keyboard warrior. But I'd rather the people in charge of the country play it a bit more cautious. 

We're getting somewhere now, so to be clear in 2 weeks time if there is no uptick in deaths you'd be ok to fully open up as planned?

[Babylon]

9 minutes ago, Otis said:

The words Could, Might, Maybe. you're acting like the vaccines don't work.

They have literally already said it doesn't work as well against this variant. And it's important you have two, many do not. 

 

9 minutes ago, Otis said:

In the 6 months June 2020 to Jan 2021 less then 250 died in the age range 0-39yrs (baring in mind this is without any vaccine)

And the rest of the population? 

 

9 minutes ago, Otis said:

But you are saying 1000's could still die in 1 month (baring in mind some in that age range have had 1 shot & some 2).... I'm not buying that.

It's basic maths Otis. If 8 a day are dying now, and the virus numbers double every 4.5 days. The data we have against Delta is only a small amount, you cannot take the risk. Because if the positive trend we are seeing doesn't continue, we're ****ed and back into a proper lockdown. 

 

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, Otis said:

We're getting somewhere now, so to be clear in 2 weeks time if there is no uptick in deaths you'd be ok to fully open up as planned?

Of course, why the hell wouldn't I be? Barring hospitalisations going through the roof. 

[Guest Harrydc]

35 minutes ago, Babylon said:

**** me... nearly a year and a half in a people still think it's the flu. 

20,000 people a year die from the flu. In 2018 we had some of the worst flu cases in history. 

 

We didn't lock down. We didn't ruin our economy and we didn't count every single case as if it was the worst thing in the world.  

 

Now, flu is practically non existant. Wonder why that is... 

[Bryn]

19 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I'm kinda interested in the opinion of some.medical professionals on here. 

 

I've got a freind who's a ICU nurse and yesterday was chatting about the fear the department now has to again run out of ventilators soon ....and the dread to have to choose life and death for patients based on point scoring

 

My argument was that twas ever thus. Doctors have surely ALWAYS made tough decisions for patients based on budget and availability. They don't pump.90 year olds with chemotherapy..or put 80 year olds on the waiting list for heart and kidney transplants. They won't do CPR on a dementia patient. 

 

Point is, are hospitals biting off more than they can chew? Some.people may just have to accept that expensive, invasive, time consuming treatment is not a given

 

 

 

We don't ration life saving treatment based on age in this country. I don't care if you're 33 or 133, if I think the treatment will benefit you I will offer it to you. We rationalise the treatment available to patients, for the most part, based on what the likely outcome is. It's the easiest thing in the world to pump a 90 year old full of chemo, but it is highly unlikely to work and merely tortures the person to death and deprives them of a chance to spend their final days at home with their family.

 

I think early in the pandemic there may have been a higher threshold to admit patients to ITU, but for the most part those decisions were still made based on a likelihood of them actually benefitting from what is incredibly unpleasant and invasive treatment. For a frail patient, a ventilator is a one-way ticket.

[Babylon]

5 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

It’s a terrible disease but did you know that as many people have died over the past year due to untreated physical illness, as due to covid?

The backlog of people waiting to be seen even for initial appointments is huge and in some cases will be years.

There has to be some compromise

8 deaths in a day, although tragic, is incomparable to the numbers of people who die every single day of other diseases. Eg cancers 

It's. Not. About. 8. Deaths. A. Day

 

If they were 100% it was going to stay at 8 deaths, there would be no delay. 

 

It's like Groundhog Day, the same stuff was said at the beginning. "It's only 5 people dead", "It's only 10 people dead", "It's only 20 people dead".... "****ing hell it's now 1000 a day in a complete lockdown"

[Bryn]

1 minute ago, Harrydc said:

Now, flu is practically non existant. Wonder why that is... 

Oh, you're pro lockdown I see.