Coronavirus Thread

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

43 minutes ago, Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo said:

 

I doubt you will, anti vaxxers are basically a different breed, and almost all of them subscribe to the idea that the opposite view to anything logical is (in their minds) correct

 

The earth is obviously spherical (or near enough). "The earth is flat"

5G is safe. "5G gives all your data to the Chinese government and then cooks all your insides and then all your inheritance ends up in China"

Coronavirus is a worldwide problem. "Covid-19 is a scam dreamt up by the 'REAL' leaders of the world to keep everyone acting like sheep for no reason whatsoever"

Vaccines are safe. "Vaccines are proven to give you autism. Look at this bullshit homemade website I found that states such a fact, and I know people on Facebook that agree so I'm right"

Can you provide sources for this information? "No. Why?"

 

This kind of person will never in a million years accept when they are wrong, they'll happily cut people out of their lives to save face as well. There may be some who are just genuinely concerned and aren't cliched conspiracy theorists, but the ones I've met are all cut from the same cloth.

I know the type and she has been raised as such by someone who thinks the Queen is a lizard, 5g does this and that, exactly the person you describe. Luckily the only thing that has made any impression is the vaccine stuff so it's their one connection to the madness, otherwise they're really sound and you wouldn't think it of them at all unless you spoke to them specifically about vaccinations. 

[Paninistickers]

1 hour ago, Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo said:

 

I doubt you will, anti vaxxers are basically a different breed, and almost all of them subscribe to the idea that the opposite view to anything logical is (in their minds) correct

 

The earth is obviously spherical (or near enough). "The earth is flat"

5G is safe. "5G gives all your data to the Chinese government and then cooks all your insides and then all your inheritance ends up in China"

Coronavirus is a worldwide problem. "Covid-19 is a scam dreamt up by the 'REAL' leaders of the world to keep everyone acting like sheep for no reason whatsoever"

Vaccines are safe. "Vaccines are proven to give you autism. Look at this bullshit homemade website I found that states such a fact, and I know people on Facebook that agree so I'm right"

Can you provide sources for this information? "No. Why?"

 

This kind of person will never in a million years accept when they are wrong, they'll happily cut people out of their lives to save face as well. There may be some who are just genuinely concerned and aren't cliched conspiracy theorists, but the ones I've met are all cut from the same cloth.

Why do you have to be so full on? I accept there's a hard-core of nutters....but there are surely plenty who are healthily sceptical of  pumping the body of genetically modified shite against a virus that is likely to cause them no.more than .a.runny nose and headache. I don't consider those people.nutters. 

 

(I'm one of them, btw,  but reluctantly took.the vaccine in the same way I reluctantly eat hormone and antibiotic fuelled beef and chicken. I know it's shite but, it won't kill.me.....yet!) 

[leicsmac]

40 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Why do you have to be so full on? I accept there's a hard-core of nutters....but there are surely plenty who are healthily sceptical of  pumping the body of genetically modified shite against a virus that is likely to cause them no.more than .a.runny nose and headache. I don't consider those people.nutters. 

 

(I'm one of them, btw,  but reluctantly took.the vaccine in the same way I reluctantly eat hormone and antibiotic fuelled beef and chicken. I know it's shite but, it won't kill.me.....yet!) 

The answer to the question is there.

 

The hardcore nutters are making the most noise and what they are saying is leading, directly, to cost in terms of money and more importantly health and lives.

 

That is why things must be full on.

[Paninistickers]

22 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The answer to the question is there.

 

The hardcore nutters are making the most noise and what they are saying is leading, directly, to cost in terms of money and more importantly health and lives.

 

That is why things must be full on.

Not helpful though to anyone who's sensibly cautious of a vaccine to be labelled as an anti vax nutter,  just because some are 

 

It's a kind of bullying,  peer pressure. 

 

Some people are veggies. Vegans. Some people like herbal remedies. Reflexology. Some people are religious. Some.people are risk takers. I just object to anyone not taking a vaccine to be labelled a nutter.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

1 hour ago, Paninistickers said:

Why do you have to be so full on? I accept there's a hard-core of nutters....but there are surely plenty who are healthily sceptical of  pumping the body of genetically modified shite against a virus that is likely to cause them no.more than .a.runny nose and headache. I don't consider those people.nutters. 

 

(I'm one of them, btw,  but reluctantly took.the vaccine in the same way I reluctantly eat hormone and antibiotic fuelled beef and chicken. I know it's shite but, it won't kill.me.....yet!) 

 

Sorry, just experience with anti-vaxxers I've met I'm afraid. I know people who have been hesitant about COVID-19 vaccines in particular and fair enough because they are relatively new (so we do have to take a chance on possible side effects), but I mean people who I've met who are completely against any sort of vaccine just strike me as absolutely going against the grain with their mindset without any logical basis. I shouldn't generalise I suppose

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Otis said:

Hi Babylon. The graphs are what was modelled. 

Why don't you give me a brief outline of what the report says.

And the report explains more detail of the how's and why's, part of it is posted a page back. 

 

As I've kept repeating, the amount of data we have on delta is tiny and not enough to assume anything from it just yet. And thus, some of the graphs are going to we worst case scenario (low vaccine effectiveness, high speed of spread). 

[leicsmac]

31 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Not helpful though to anyone who's sensibly cautious of a vaccine to be labelled as an anti vax nutter,  just because some are 

 

It's a kind of bullying,  peer pressure. 

 

Some people are veggies. Vegans. Some people like herbal remedies. Reflexology. Some people are religious. Some.people are risk takers. I just object to anyone not taking a vaccine to be labelled a nutter.

I would agree that less confrontational approaches would generally be more helpful, but I also think that really depends on the context and what the purveyor is trying  to "achieve", though.

 

Tbh it would help if there was a more rational argument that such folks could bring forward not to take vaccines - whichever one - anyway. The issues with the AZ vaccine were identified and jumped on damn fast even though the numerical risk was still much lower than a lot of other medicines that people take routinely, and as far as I know there is no systemic issue with any other vaccine at this time. I can understand people being afraid and that leading to irrationality, but I'm not sure I can entirely excuse it when that same fear then has the chance to affect people other than them negatively.

 

NB. I've also some sympathy towards the "appeal to nature" argument, but as charging bears, the candiru and extinction prove, natural doesn't always mean better.

[Leicester_Loyal]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/14/children-may-need-get-covid-jabs-avoid-disruption-education/

 

Children ‘may need to get Covid jabs to avoid disruption to education’

 

Here we go, if your child doesn't have a jab then they'll have to do daily tests etc. forever more.

[FoxesDeb]

5 hours ago, David Hankey said:

What would you suggest to stop the spread of this deadly virus?

That's not my job I'm afraid, and even if I did have suggestions I doubt very much that the people in charge of making those decisions would be interested   I can't agree that mandatory vaccination should be enforced though, people have the right to choose. I think those who remain unvaccinated by choice will find themselves facing further restrictions, though, the EU are bringing in a vaccine passport as we speak so folk might find themselves unable to travel. We might also find establishments refusing entry to people without proof of the vaccine, who knows?

[yorkie1999]

35 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/14/children-may-need-get-covid-jabs-avoid-disruption-education/

 

Children ‘may need to get Covid jabs to avoid disruption to education’

 

Here we go, if your child doesn't have a jab then they'll have to do daily tests etc. forever more.

Trouble is, for most young people there's no incentive to get a jab, never mind getting your kids jabbed. The standard reply is how does it benefit me, the fact that it does through all the reasons everyone knows about is immaterial. All this anti-vaxers stuff is bullshit, there's no such thing, if you said to someone who claims to be an anti-vaxer, i'll give you a million quid to take the vaccine, they'd snap your hand off, proving its just a fallacy  Other countries have realised this and offer gifts such as iphones and cannabis. 

[z-layrex]

42 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/14/children-may-need-get-covid-jabs-avoid-disruption-education/

 

Children ‘may need to get Covid jabs to avoid disruption to education’

 

Here we go, if your child doesn't have a jab then they'll have to do daily tests etc. forever more.

So vaccinate the kid.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

2 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Trouble is, for most young people there's no incentive to get a jab, never mind getting your kids jabbed. The standard reply is how does it benefit me, the fact that it does through all the reasons everyone knows about is immaterial. All this anti-vaxers stuff is bullshit, there's no such thing, if you said to someone who claims to be an anti-vaxer, i'll give you a million quid to take the vaccine, they'd snap your hand off, proving its just a fallacy  Other countries have realised this and offer gifts such as iphones and cannabis. 

Well said sir. I couldn't agree more.

[Leicester_Loyal]

10 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

So vaccinate the kid.

Would you ever forgive yourself if you did and something were to happen to your child?

 

I don't know if you have kids, but plenty I know refuse to let their child have it, I'd be doing the same if I were them I think.

[Leicester_Loyal]

13 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Trouble is, for most young people there's no incentive to get a jab, never mind getting your kids jabbed. The standard reply is how does it benefit me, the fact that it does through all the reasons everyone knows about is immaterial. All this anti-vaxers stuff is bullshit, there's no such thing, if you said to someone who claims to be an anti-vaxer, i'll give you a million quid to take the vaccine, they'd snap your hand off, proving its just a fallacy  Other countries have realised this and offer gifts such as iphones and cannabis. 

Offer the youths a gram of MD and they'll be signing straight up

[z-layrex]

5 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Would you ever forgive yourself if you did and something were to happen to your child?

 

I don't know if you have kids, but plenty I know refuse to let their child have it, I'd be doing the same if I were them I think.

Nothing would happen to the child. Do these parents feed their kids fast food? Far bigger risk to their health long term than a covid vaccine.

[Leicester_Loyal]

Just now, z-layrex said:

Nothing would happen to the child. Do these parents feed their kids fast food? Far bigger risk to their health long term than a covid vaccine.

Probably about the same risk as the child has from actually dying from COVID though.

 

I can see why plenty wouldn't just give their child the jab, at least not straight away without waiting a little while.

 

I remember a few months back people were saying AstraZeneca was as safe as houses, nothing would happen etc. Now it's been stopped to certain age categories.

[Col city fan]

15 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Would you ever forgive yourself if you did and something were to happen to your child?

 

I don't know if you have kids, but plenty I know refuse to let their child have it, I'd be doing the same if I were them I think.

Why?? Kids have all sorts of vaccines administered. Why not Covid? 

[Samilktray]

16 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Offer the youths a gram of MD and they'll be signing straight up

I’d be disappointed to have had my vaccine prematurely 

[Leicester_Loyal]

2 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Why?? Kids have all sorts of vaccines administered. Why not Covid? 

We've been through this loads on here, we all know it's probably safe. These other vaccines have been around for years, we have years of research and we've seen no ill effects.

 

In 6 months time once loads of kids have already had it, you'll find people are a lot more willing to allow their child to have it, IMO anyway.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Probably about the same risk as the child has from actually dying from COVID though.

 

I can see why plenty wouldn't just give their child the jab, at least not straight away without waiting a little while.

 

I remember a few months back people were saying AstraZeneca was as safe as houses, nothing would happen etc. Now it's been stopped to certain age categories.

Probably, however given that the vaccines have been shown to also limit transmission perhaps the risk of someone else dying from Covid because the kid gave it to them is a factor, too.

 

Of course, other people may be vaccinated too, but the arguments regarding this and those who for whatever reason cannot get vaccinated  have been repeated on here many times, yes.

[Leicester_Loyal]

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Probably, however given that the vaccines have been shown to also limit transmission perhaps the risk of someone else dying from Covid because the kid gave it to them is a factor, too.

 

Of course, other people may be vaccinated too, but the arguments regarding this and those who for whatever reason cannot get vaccinated  have been repeated on here many times, yes.

For once we agree!

 

But I do think people will put their own kids 'health' before others, i.e. they won't care if their child passes on covid, that's better than 'potentially' putting the kid at risk from the vaccine, but over time this will change IMO.

[Ric Flair]

28 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Why?? Kids have all sorts of vaccines administered. Why not Covid? 

Erm maybe because the other things they get vaccinations against have a higher % chance of making children seriously ill/die if they get the said virus/disease. Where as covid????

 

The enemy here isn't people who don't need the vaccine choosing not to if they don't want, that's what the government and media want the public to focus on but regardless of all that young adults have been queueing up round the block for the vaccine, a bigger take up than any prediction and yet still the narrative is that the young are selfish and the enemy of the elderly and vulnerable when it comes to covid, you know that cohort of people that are now double jabbed or should have been double jabbed and means we are in any other endemic or pandemic in a position where the restrictions to our freedom and peoples livelihoods wouldn't even be a debate. We'd be getting on with our lives.

[Ric Flair]

19 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Probably, however given that the vaccines have been shown to also limit transmission perhaps the risk of someone else dying from Covid because the kid gave it to them is a factor, too.

 

Of course, other people may be vaccinated too, but the arguments regarding this and those who for whatever reason cannot get vaccinated  have been repeated on here many times, yes.

Now we're in the realms of asking why everybody didn't get flu vaccinations every winter then. Not to protect themselves but the 10-20k of people that die each year of it.

 

Yet, nobody really gave a flying f cuk did they as ignorance was bliss unless it directly impacted on them. 

[leicsmac]

34 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

For once we agree!

 

But I do think people will put their own kids 'health' before others, i.e. they won't care if their child passes on covid, that's better than 'potentially' putting the kid at risk from the vaccine, but over time this will change IMO.

I don't see any evidence to the contrary tbh. Self-interest is always a hugely powerful motivator.

 

23 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Now we're in the realms of asking why everybody didn't get flu vaccinations every winter then. Not to protect themselves but the 10-20k of people that die each year of it.

 

Yet, nobody really gave a flying f cuk did they as ignorance was bliss unless it directly impacted on them. 

I would posit that there is rather a large difference in effect between the standard influenza and Covid, but as per above, you're right in that people don't tend to want to think about problems unless they're knocking directly at their door. See also; constantly rising average Earth temperatures already causing nastiness that will only get nastier.

 

Lack of foresight beyond our own line of sight can sometimes help, but in many cases it may well be a fatal hindrance.

[Ric Flair]

5 hours ago, reporterpenguin said:

As has been said numerous times before, this is not remotely comparable. Yes 20,000 people a year die from flu, when we’re living our normal lives with no restrictions. Well over 100,000 people died from Covid-19 last year, with enormous and unprecedented restrictions placed on all our lives. Unsurprisingly with the country under these restrictions, flu deaths were a fraction of what they usually are last years flu season. The two are not comparable. 

 

As for why flu is practically non existent now, I’m curious as to why you believe this has happened? It makes sense to me that the restrictions have dramatically reduced how the flu virus spreads, does it not?

 

It’s clear how hard you’ve found this horrendous time Harry, I really feel for you, but please try and help yourself by critically evaluating everything you hear and read. Not just the parts you disagree with while accepting things that reinforce your existing beliefs without second thought.

Interesting you mention the link between flu being non existent in the last year due to restrictions. It's obvious that flu, like many other respiratory viruses/diseases spread from contact with one another but young people weren't the enemy over the last however many years the seasonal flu vaccinations were available. Why weren't they being demonised for not having it for the sake of the elderly and vulnerable.