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2020/21 Under 23's, U19's, Development ... thread

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1 hour ago, davieG said:

Depends what his role is. If it's managing the Academy re organisation, administration, education, player welfare, community interaction etc then he doesn't necessarily need to be a football coach just to have and understanding and affinity to the coaching job.

 

Then he needs to be first and foremost a good communicator and  manager. As long as there are great coaches his role could be down to being a facilitator so that the coaches can concentrate on coaching and not distracted by all those other things I've mentioned..

 

 

Fully agree with the fist point you make and i don't think its been suggested that from an education and admin perspective he is incapable or not doing a good job.

 

The point of this discussion is that there are NOT great coaches doing a great job at U23s level downwards and if you are the Academy Manager but don't have a background or great knowledge of football, how would you recognise where the fault lies and how would you identify what is required to fix that?

 

"If players are not being developed properly then we've either got crap coaches, they're being told to coach them the wrong way or they're not 100% on the role".

 

Who would you suggest is responsible for identifying and solving the issues you quote above if not the Academy Manager (ie Ian Crawley) as im pretty sure Beaglehole isnt going to fire himself?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Fully agree with the fist point you make and i don't think its been suggested that from an education and admin perspective he is incapable or not doing a good job.

 

The point of this discussion is that there are NOT great coaches doing a great job at U23s level downwards and if you are the Academy Manager but don't have a background or great knowledge of football, how would you recognise where the fault lies and how would you identify what is required to fix that?

 

"If players are not being developed properly then we've either got crap coaches, they're being told to coach them the wrong way or they're not 100% on the role".

 

Who would you suggest is responsible for identifying and solving the issues you quote above if not the Academy Manager (ie Ian Crawley) as im pretty sure Beaglehole isnt going to fire himself?

 

 

Well again it depends if he's just 'Managing' the Academy as I described then I think it's down to Rudkin hopefully with input from Rodgers or whoever is the Manager to recruit the coaches, lay down the blue print and monitor the progress/success of the coaching.

 

All I can do is use myself as an example I managed a Product Development Team of Software, Electronic and Mechanical Engineers, my role was to manage and facilitate on behalf of those engineers who were way more qualified than me and earned way more than me because the business didn't want to lose any of their development skills and if I say so myself I was better than they were at managing, logistics, buying, managing all the admin, co-ordinating with other departments and facilitating on any problems they had.

 

The Director was responsible for recruiting the Engineers. I had no problem with them earning more as their skills were harder to recruit and were then not wasted. It worked very well.

 

PS. I'm not saying this is the case I'm just pointing out that dependent on responsibilities his position is not necessarily the reason for any perceived failing with the Academy.

 

Anyway if there are then for me the buck stops with Rudkin.

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5 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

Is this you moving on from Tavares? The sheets aren’t even cold yet 

Hahahahahaaa I bring them through in to the limelight, they pay me a finders fee and then I move on to the next one. How else do you think I pay for all this Flair I bring?

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2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Hahahahahaaa I bring them through in to the limelight, they pay me a finders fee and then I move on to the next one. How else do you think I pay for all this Flair I bring?

But did Sidnei like your post @Ric Flair?

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On 02/05/2021 at 13:56, The People's Hero said:

I don't think there is much doubt it needs a massive revamp; I just wonder when we'll see it. Hopefully this summer.

Sorry forgot I posted.

 

I'm not sure people can really grasp how bad it is tbh! 

 

I'm a life long lcfc fan and the club is a massive part of my life and I'm shocked at how poor it is. We travel around the country most weeks as they have the same programme as the first team and lcfc are put to shame by most other clubs! Wolves,Forest,Birmingham plus more in Midlands are so far ahead.

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On 05/05/2021 at 10:46, Stadt said:

Our current head of the academy since 2016 is Ian Cawley - who was formerly the head of academy education at the club. 
 

Now maybe I have the wrong end of the stick and he’s brilliant at his job - but a premier league club with European ambitions and a £100m+ state of the art training ground should perhaps have an academy manager with a stronger track record.

 

It’d almost be like having a very talented England squad and putting somebody under qualified in charge...

He's shocking!

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1 hour ago, Thefoxman said:

He's shocking!

...without  going into any kind of character assassination, can you expand on that statement!!!

  It is interesting to hear your perception of the academy and the people involved in running it.

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16 hours ago, happy85 said:

Who this chap training with 1st team ?

EC0F42D0-CD1E-4CCC-8908-C405628FD2B4.png

There was a few under 18s missing from the match squad on Tuesday who look like they may be training with the first team as Sammy Braybrooke is also in the gallery photos
 

The other 2 missing were Marcel-Madivadua and Maswanhise so could be them

Edited by moore_94
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4 hours ago, Thefoxman said:

Hi, sorry for delay.

 

First there's coaches there that have been there so long that they don't give a toss. There not interested in actually developing players or coaching them to improve.

 

They play constant matches in training nothing else with silent coaching, unless you are the top couple of boys and then you get the preferential treatment.

 

If you make a compliant nothing is done ect. There's so much wrong it would take a week to write but we feel it was a mistake to sign at lcfc and would have been better at Forest,Wolves,Brum,Derby

 

Thanks for your reply, doesn't sound like things are great there at the moment.

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I've seen very little of Tavares in matches but watched the fairly lengthy highlights of last night and I was highly impressed by him - the way he carried the ball so swiftly and positively out of defence, and the accuracy of his passing (often hit on the run with seemingly little deliberation).  I hope he does sign a renewed contract at the end of the season.

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10 hours ago, deep blue said:

I've seen very little of Tavares in matches but watched the fairly lengthy highlights of last night and I was highly impressed by him - the way he carried the ball so swiftly and positively out of defence, and the accuracy of his passing (often hit on the run with seemingly little deliberation).  I hope he does sign a renewed contract at the end of the season.

He's got a lot of ability, I just hope he has the mental determination needed to fulfill that. I'm confident he'll stay and Rodgers will get him there.

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22 hours ago, Thefoxman said:

Hi, sorry for delay.

 

First there's coaches there that have been there so long that they don't give a toss. There not interested in actually developing players or coaching them to improve.

 

They play constant matches in training nothing else with silent coaching, unless you are the top couple of boys and then you get the preferential treatment.

 

If you make a compliant nothing is done ect. There's so much wrong it would take a week to write but we feel it was a mistake to sign at lcfc and would have been better at Forest,Wolves,Brum,Derby

 

I am not surprised to read of your experience but i would add a couple of comments...

 

Absolutely right about the coaches....they are in a very privileged position at one of Europe's leading clubs but their "job for life" mindset is to the detrement of the club and the potential of young players

 

It will always be the case that the exceptional 2/3 players in each group will receive preferential treatment, and I don't think this is specific to LCFC as im sure this happens at almost every club.

There are some "big time" parents at football academies who fail to understand this until it is too late and while it is wrong, it is sadly the way it is. The important thing is to recognise this from the outset and enjoy the experience and privilege it brings as the vast majority who convince themselves that their son is on the way to fame and fortune are in a for a very hard and painful fall... 

 

However, you are definitely right about complaints being disregarded....unless you are one of the preferential players.  The mindset of Academies is that those who complain are troublemakers (unless you are a preferential player!) and their kids future opportunities will suffer as a result..... yet if you don't highlight issues, their kids will continue to suffer unfairly.

Its a bit of a no-win situation but that is the reality of Academy football where coaches treat other peoples kids in a way they would feel unacceptable if it were their own kids being treated in the same way.

 

Im not entirely convinced your experience would be any different at Forest, Wolves or Derby as i think its an endemic way of working that seems to be acceptable in football but would definitely NOT be acceptable in any other walk of life.  Its absolutely wrong....but sadly that's just the way it is and i doubt its ever going to change because of the closed mindsets of people who work in Academy football.

 

(ps Ironically, it is the coaches who have left after becoming disillusioned that always offer the best insight.....and they nearly always paint the same picture!)

 

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52 minutes ago, Foxy-Lady said:

I am not surprised to read of your experience but i would add a couple of comments...

 

Absolutely right about the coaches....they are in a very privileged position at one of Europe's leading clubs but their "job for life" mindset is to the detrement of the club and the potential of young players

 

It will always be the case that the exceptional 2/3 players in each group will receive preferential treatment, and I don't think this is specific to LCFC as im sure this happens at almost every club.

There are some "big time" parents at football academies who fail to understand this until it is too late and while it is wrong, it is sadly the way it is. The important thing is to recognise this from the outset and enjoy the experience and privilege it brings as the vast majority who convince themselves that their son is on the way to fame and fortune are in a for a very hard and painful fall... 

 

However, you are definitely right about complaints being disregarded....unless you are one of the preferential players.  The mindset of Academies is that those who complain are troublemakers (unless you are a preferential player!) and their kids future opportunities will suffer as a result..... yet if you don't highlight issues, their kids will continue to suffer unfairly.

Its a bit of a no-win situation but that is the reality of Academy football where coaches treat other peoples kids in a way they would feel unacceptable if it were their own kids being treated in the same way.

 

Im not entirely convinced your experience would be any different at Forest, Wolves or Derby as i think its an endemic way of working that seems to be acceptable in football but would definitely NOT be acceptable in any other walk of life.  Its absolutely wrong....but sadly that's just the way it is and i doubt its ever going to change because of the closed mindsets of people who work in Academy football.

 

(ps Ironically, it is the coaches who have left after becoming disillusioned that always offer the best insight.....and they nearly always paint the same picture!)

 

Some lovely stuff in here! :worship::appl:

 

I am not suggesting that the decision makers at LCFC have an easy job however! 

 

Its an elite environment! However does employment law take this into consideration? So now we are talking payoffs to incompetent staff...

 

Also how can you attribute blame when apparent failure occurs?  There are literally endless possibilities as to why a wonderkid talent at 9 might not be the player they could be at 21.

 

This doesn't excuse incompetence, or even worse apathy towards the job of development, but if you can not attribute blame to recruiters, coaches, or heaven forbid the "suits" and their systems they have signed off... how do you make it elite? 

 

Also whilst I'm going on... If you have a good position, and you hire a dud staff member who apparently ticks all the boxes, you cant get rid because then questions will be asked of you! & what staff member wants that, in an environment where you cant quantify ability, other than some historic goodwill, a badge or they have worked at this big club and have contacts, so must be good right? Wrong! Sadly that is people, and protecting their own positions, that is understandable, but its a problem that you introduce with the wrong people in the jobs. 

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Under 18s have just kicked off at home against West Ham

 

1. Doherty, 2. Kutshienza, 3. Dawkins, 4. Cover, 5. Godsmark-Ford, 6. Cook, 7. Cartwright, 8. Ewing(c), 9. Russ, 10. T. Pennant, 11. K. Pennant

 

Bench: 13. Chibueze (GK), 12. Popov, 14. Fitzhugh, 15. Butterfill, 16. Lewis

 

Few players missing from the squad after the 5-1 win against Aston Villa; Odunze, Booth, and Solomon

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