The Premier League’s so-called ‘Big Six’ could become part of a new-look Champions League.

[Lcfc82]

27 minutes ago, Babylon said:

They don't really care about local fans, this is about all the glory hunters who outnumber the locals. 

You’re right. Most of the premier league clubs and I’d include us in this are only interested in appealing to their global fan base. They’re not interested one bit in local supporters 

[Grebfromgrebland]

14 minutes ago, Vlad the Fox said:

I sometimes wonder how much of this is aimed at reducing the the power of the premier league. Some of the top European clubs can’t compete financially with mid table premier league teams, reducing premier league fixtures, restructuring champions league, europa league etc etc, is it a power grab by some of these European clubs to try and grab some of the wealth or reduce the wealth and influence of teams like us, everton, wolves west ham etc who are all threatening to join the party. 

I think that's a massive factor in all of this.  There's an established elite that doesn't want the boat rocking.

 

Like everything in this world the rich and powerful will hang on to their power and riches at all costs.

[Super_horns]

They must be quaking in their boots that you and West Ham might get into the Champions league.

 

So more games for players and managers at a time when they are crying out that there is too much ?!

[mozartfox]

I pray that ourselves, West Ham and Everton take 3 of the top 6 places come May.  To see Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal without any European Football would be simply fantastic.

 

They will be looking for all manner of snookers and loop-holes to get their heads back in the troughs.

[Steven]

13 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Swiss scoring is used in Contract Bridge, I wonder if this is similarly conceived.

 

1 NT

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, Steven said:

1 NT

We risk getting side-tracked here..... 

 

(strong or weak nt?)

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

40 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

You’re right. Most of the premier league clubs and I’d include us in this are only interested in appealing to their global fan base. They’re not interested one bit in local supporters 

You’re wrong about us, our owners give lots of freebies out to local supporters plus aren’t we quite involved in the local community? 

[Lcfc82]

15 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

You’re wrong about us, our owners give lots of freebies out to local supporters plus aren’t we quite involved in the local community? 

I don’t know, the free stuff like the t-shirts and beer is just a bit of a publicity stunt to make them look like they’re doing something for supporters. I’d sooner then reduce ticket prices or reduce the cost of food and drinks in the ground personally.

 

Fair point on the community stuff though, the money given to Leicester hospitals is impressive.

[Basildon Fox]

3 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

If they are so daft, and take away the carrot.....All Other clubs fans could well demand their own competitions.....Leaving The Elite dangling...

One might even see L'pool home grown fans,change their alliance become Tranmere fans..London Club fans go to Palace,Wimbledon,Even Millwall..

 

This segregation would eventually create aggrevation...Touristen fans will drift, if they see another/ just different presentation, they will just drift away...!!!

Local fans will Rebuild what s been trashed,other  yet unknown clubs will come to the fore,because where the majority of fans stay, will be where the Market is..

 

 

 

If only this were true.  Unfortunately the media will push the new set up far more than the old one meaning the "big 6" will have even more coverage than before which means even less for everyone else.  The armchair fan will lap it up, as will the football tourist.  When you only see these teams on the tv, their fan base will grow and everyone else will decline.  The short term may see a number of fans switch but the long term will be only beneficial for the big teams involved throughout Europe.

 

As I have said before, this will be a death sentence for as many as half the remaining clubs in the Football League set up as even less money will drift down to the lower divisions.  Less clubs with youth teams due to the cost meaning less developed players and also when they go to the wall, less places for a Vardy or an Ian Wright to develop into top players.

 

When you have Americans fronting the proposal, the arrogance of their thought process of a closed shop works in America, it is impossible to get them to understand the true beauty of a league system.

[fuchsntf]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

They don't really care about local fans, this is about all the glory hunters who outnumber the locals. 

Yeh...unfortunately...Though Glory Hunter fans, can be somewhat fickle, then if it goes out of mode, or the In-thing or fashion, is to want again "real-footbal"

Then like real-ale, their Taste-bud might again become more refined

Or Local fans just have to make more offspring...

[davieG]

43 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

If only this were true.  Unfortunately the media will push the new set up far more than the old one meaning the "big 6" will have even more coverage than before which means even less for everyone else.  The armchair fan will lap it up, as will the football tourist.  When you only see these teams on the tv, their fan base will grow and everyone else will decline.  The short term may see a number of fans switch but the long term will be only beneficial for the big teams involved throughout Europe.

 

As I have said before, this will be a death sentence for as many as half the remaining clubs in the Football League set up as even less money will drift down to the lower divisions.  Less clubs with youth teams due to the cost meaning less developed players and also when they go to the wall, less places for a Vardy or an Ian Wright to develop into top players.

 

When you have Americans fronting the proposal, the arrogance of their thought process of a closed shop works in America, it is impossible to get them to understand the true beauty of a league system.

But even in the NFL there's a degree of equality with the Draft system and their merchandise is all NFL branded/controlled and shared equally amongst the clubs. This is how I understand it.

[Basildon Fox]

1 minute ago, davieG said:

But even in the NFL there's a degree of equality with the Draft system and their merchandise is all NFL branded/controlled and shared equally amongst the clubs. This is how I understand it.

And it will probably be the same for the teams involved across the competition.  It will not help the Bristol Rovers or the Fleetwoods of Europe though.

[davieG]

2 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

And it will probably be the same for the teams involved across the competition.  It will not help the Bristol Rovers or the Fleetwoods of Europe though.

Are you referring to the revamped CL proposal because I can't ever see them ensuring any sort of level playing field within that clique certainly not anything that could be deemed similar to the NFL draft scheme nor the pooling and equal distribution of merchandise revenue.

[Lambert09]

4 hours ago, Lcfc82 said:

I don’t know, the free stuff like the t-shirts and beer is just a bit of a publicity stunt to make them look like they’re doing something for supporters. I’d sooner then reduce ticket prices or reduce the cost of food and drinks in the ground personally.

 

Fair point on the community stuff though, the money given to Leicester hospitals is impressive.

Sorry but I disagree. Maybe at first it was but if any owners don’t need that type of publicity it’s ours. 
 

it’s a small jesture but I don’t think there’s anything attached to it. remember that those not at the game would barely even hear about this type of thing. 
 

Our owners bought us as a business, but have become part of the family. Of course they will look for the best commercial opportunities but we need that to be successful. We probably have the best blend of business and sentimentality that exists in sport. 
 

if it was just a fan owning the club they are far more privvy to act with too much emotion, in the heat of the moment or a bad run of form. Our owners have proved to make the right decisions at the right times and have earnt my trust 100% 
 

[st albans fox]

5 hours ago, Super_horns said:

They must be quaking in their boots that you and West Ham might get into the Champions league.

 

So more games for players and managers at a time when they are crying out that there is too much ?!

they want to reduce the prem by four games by cutting the numbers to 18 …… 

[Basildon Fox]

55 minutes ago, davieG said:

Are you referring to the revamped CL proposal because I can't ever see them ensuring any sort of level playing field within that clique certainly not anything that could be deemed similar to the NFL draft scheme nor the pooling and equal distribution of merchandise revenue.

It is more the teams who would be classed as permenant fixtures in the competition, like the Barcelonas, Madrids, Man Utd, Liverpool etc.  They will all make sure they equally eat at the top of the table, before any others.

 

The design will be to make sue they are better rewarded as they have a better co-efficient etc.  It will be financially heavily stacked in their favor with everyone getting an equal share to keep these teams happy.  It will not matter that it will be at the expense of other teams.

Edited 9 March 2021 by Zaphod Beeblebrox

[davieG]

2 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

It is more the teams who would be classed as permenant fixtures in the competition, like the Barcelonas, Madrids, Man Utd, Liverpool etc.  They will all make sure they equally eat at the top of the table, before any others.

 

The design will be to make sue they are better rewarded as they have a better co-efficient etc.  It will be financially heavily stacked in their favor with everyone getting an equal share to keep these teams happy.  It will not matter that it will be at the expense of other teams.

I take your point but the prizes for where you finish and the Media income will be graded so the winners get the most hence why some are saying if it includes the likes of Everton & WHU their fans will soon get tired of finishing bottom because they'll still be out financed by Barcelonas, Madrids, Man Utd, Liverpool etc. Sure they'll have more to maintain their status in the PL  but it wont help them in the revamped CL.

[Basildon Fox]

2 minutes ago, davieG said:

I take your point but the prizes for where you finish and the Media income will be graded so the winners get the most hence why some are saying if it includes the likes of Everton & WHU their fans will soon get tired of finishing bottom because they'll still be out financed by Barcelonas, Madrids, Man Utd, Liverpool etc. Sure they'll have more to maintain their status in the PL  but it wont help them in the revamped CL.

This is where we differ.  A revamped Champions Lague where the same teams are always in with little chance for change means it will not make a difference where say a Man Utd or a Liverpool finish in the Prem.  The major money will go toward the Champions League and there will be considerably less value attached to the Prem.

 

This will have a knock on effect on its marketability as the "big 6" will not have to win it or finish in the top 4 to get to the big one- The revamped Champions League. 

 

If the competition is taken away from the Prem, what is the point in them trying to win it?  They will focus on getting into the later stages of the Champions League every season.  At this moment they have to actually get there on merit (league position) which will not be the case moving forward. TV companies will put a bigger emphasis on the Champions League as they will be guaranteed the blockbuster teams showing every match day.

 

Money will then drift from our game and into the pockets of the rich few clubs which will put a lot of clubs in jeapardy in the English league system and probably in Spain, Italy, Germany too.

 

More over the winning of the Prem would be so much less prestigious.  Would you really be the best team in the country if Man City had played an U23 team for the majority of the season in the Prem and finished 12th?

[Steven]

6 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

We risk getting side-tracked here..... 

 

(strong or weak nt?)

 

Strong

[Finnegan]

58 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

This is where we differ.  A revamped Champions Lague where the same teams are always in with little chance for change means it will not make a difference where say a Man Utd or a Liverpool finish in the Prem.  The major money will go toward the Champions League and there will be considerably less value attached to the Prem.

 

This will have a knock on effect on its marketability as the "big 6" will not have to win it or finish in the top 4 to get to the big one- The revamped Champions League. 

 

If the competition is taken away from the Prem, what is the point in them trying to win it?  They will focus on getting into the later stages of the Champions League every season.  At this moment they have to actually get there on merit (league position) which will not be the case moving forward. TV companies will put a bigger emphasis on the Champions League as they will be guaranteed the blockbuster teams showing every match day.

 

Money will then drift from our game and into the pockets of the rich few clubs which will put a lot of clubs in jeapardy in the English league system and probably in Spain, Italy, Germany too.

 

More over the winning of the Prem would be so much less prestigious.  Would you really be the best team in the country if Man City had played an U23 team for the majority of the season in the Prem and finished 12th?

 

For evidence of basically all of this, see Northern Hemisphere rugby. 

[davieG]

54 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

This is where we differ.  A revamped Champions Lague where the same teams are always in with little chance for change means it will not make a difference where say a Man Utd or a Liverpool finish in the Prem.  The major money will go toward the Champions League and there will be considerably less value attached to the Prem.

 

This will have a knock on effect on its marketability as the "big 6" will not have to win it or finish in the top 4 to get to the big one- The revamped Champions League. 

 

If the competition is taken away from the Prem, what is the point in them trying to win it?  They will focus on getting into the later stages of the Champions League every season.  At this moment they have to actually get there on merit (league position) which will not be the case moving forward. TV companies will put a bigger emphasis on the Champions League as they will be guaranteed the blockbuster teams showing every match day.

 

Money will then drift from our game and into the pockets of the rich few clubs which will put a lot of clubs in jeapardy in the English league system and probably in Spain, Italy, Germany too.

 

More over the winning of the Prem would be so much less prestigious.  Would you really be the best team in the country if Man City had played an U23 team for the majority of the season in the Prem and finished 12th?

As understand the proposal it will be expanded to 4+2 where the 4 still have to finish in the top 4 places in the PL and the 2 will be on historical ranking. It'll still be possible for 1 or 2 to miss out if some of us also rans finish in the top 4. Of course with the 6 getting a more guaranteed chuck of money finishing top 4 will be significantly hard. But Rich 6 will still have to perform in the PL to achieve the top 4 places.

 

Unless I've misunderstood.

[Paninistickers]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

As understand the proposal it will be expanded to 4+2 where the 4 still have to finish in the top 4 places in the PL and the 2 will be on historical ranking. It'll still be possible for 1 or 2 to miss out if some of us also rans finish in the top 4. Of course with the 6 getting a more guaranteed chuck of money finishing top 4 will be significantly hard. But Rich 6 will still have to perform in the PL to achieve the top 4 places.

 

Unless I've misunderstood.

Agree. I don't think a 3rd or 4th place would lose a CL spot to, say, 11th placed Arsenal. 

 

Instead we'd get our place PLUS Arsenal.

 

Otherwise, it's subject to legal challenge. Restraint of trade, that sort of thing 

 

 

[Nalis]

Champions league should be based on the 36 teams with the biggest social media presence.

[fox_up_north]

4 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Champions league should be based on the 36 teams with the biggest social media presence.

Nonsense. They should just decide who wins based on most likes per player (LPP)

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, Nalis said:

Champions league should be based on the 36 teams with the biggest social media presence.

 

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

Nonsense. They should just decide who wins based on most likes per player (LPP)

Nonsense. They should just decide on those teams most adept at conning refs with head clutching antics.