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davieG

The Premier League’s so-called ‘Big Six’ could become part of a new-look Champions League.

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2 minutes ago, davieG said:

I'm not so sure it was because people got bored rather that the Cricket Establishment took on board what he had and replicated it more or less. At least that's my memory of it.

 

There in lies the danger. The cliché Money Talks has never been more true. Establishment people now want a slice of the cake before they're ousted.

Just to add Rick Parry is the perfect example.

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At least King Power have hedged their bets with OHL. Give them better players and they may well make the new European Super League every season via finishing high enough in the Belgian League:dunno:.  Or will that be members only too with Antwerp and Club Brugge making the cut? 

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https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-man-utd-face-grilling-23440473

 

Liverpool and Man Utd face grilling over European Super League plans in virtual meeting
The two Premier League giants are to face questioning about allegations of discussions with the likes of Real Madrid and AC Milan over a breakaway division


ByAlex Milne
09:35, 4 FEB 2021

Liverpool and Manchester United are set to be questioned about their involvement in talks over a breakaway European Super League on Thursday.

Rumours have emerged once again in recent months that the elite clubs around the continent are discussing forming a new division, which would see them no longer play in the Champions League or Europa League.

The controversial plans have been widely condemned, while FIFA have threatened any players who take part with bans from the World Cup.

And according to The SunLiverpool and United representatives will be grilled over their part in the developments during the Premier League shareholders meeting on Thursday.


It comes after La Liga president Javier Tebas recently blasted both clubs over their talks with FIFA chief Gianni Infantino and Real Madrid president Florentino Perez.

Tebas said: "This would be a disaster for football, it would destroy the ecosystem and balance of the game in Europe.

"This whole underground project started with Infantino and Perez — but the Glazers and Liverpool were active too and held meetings.

"They have all tried to keep it secret, before the stories emerged in October and since.”

It is believed United owner Joel Glazer will not be present at Thursday's meeting, meaning vice-chairman Ed Woodward will be the man under the microscope.

Any Super League breakaway would have huge financial implications for the Premier League teams not involved.

It is believed the traditional 'Big Six' of United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester City, Chelsea and Tottenham are all in contention to play in the tournament.

 

The league would be made up of 15 or 16 members from around Europe, with American banking giant JP Morgan allegedly willing to fund the highly lucrative event.

Supporters have come together to oppose the plans, however, with umbrella group Football Supporters Europe (FSE) releasing a statement earlier this week which read: "We are all united in our opposition to the creation of a European Super League - an unpopular, illegitimate, and dangerous scheme in the eyes of the overwhelming majority of fans."

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31 minutes ago, Babylon said:

It’s all a smoke screen. 
 

Look at this horrible idea, whilst we put through another one that’s not quite so horrible but everyone should be pleased as it’s not the really horrible one.

 

Absolute chancers thinking any fan wants the new format suggested.

 

Not finished in the top 4? Don’t worry Arsenal you get in on historic performance.


Bullshit.

Exactly this. Classic bargaining tool. Ask for something that’s totally unrealistic so you can get what you’re actually looking for. 

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2 hours ago, Ian Nacho said:

Exactly this. Classic bargaining tool. Ask for something that’s totally unrealistic so you can get what you’re actually looking for. 

Walkers Bowl.

 

Fans up in arms about the Bowl so they can get a sponsors name on the stadium

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9250577/UEFA-plans-protect-Europes-richest-benefited-Arsenal-Spurs-hurt-Leicester.html

 

REVEALED: Arsenal and Tottenham would have been promoted BACK into the Champions League in recent years under UEFA's new expansion plans... and Chelsea could be big winners too, but it's bad news for Leicester, West Ham and Everton
UEFA's plans to supersize the Champions League from 2024  include protected access to the competition for biggest clubs in Europe, at others' expense
Plan says extra places awarded on UEFA rankings based on European record
Sportsmail analysis suggests in the last three seasons Arsenal and Tottenham would have benefited, but Leicester City would have lost out
Clubs challenging the Big Six, like Everton, Villa and West Ham disadvantaged
By CHARLIE WALKER FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 10:05, 12 February 2021 | UPDATED: 10:05, 12 February 2021

 
UEFA's proposal for a safety net for Europe's biggest clubs if they miss out on Champions League qualification would have propelled Arsenal and Tottenham back into the lucrative competition in recent years, even though they did not qualify.

A group of Premier League clubs outside of the Big Six were infuriated when the top-flight was briefed on the plans last week, and they are now planning to oppose the change to qualification rules.

UEFA are proposing that, from 2024, the top four in the Premier League automatically qualify for the Champions League (as now), while two teams go into the Europa League and a seventh club enter the new Europa Conference League.

But two additional Champions League places, across Europe, would be handed to clubs that only qualify for the EL or ECL - based on their recent performances in European competition.

In an analysis by Sportsmail, Tottenham, last season's sixth-place finishers, would have qualified for this season's competition rather than fifth-place Leicester, and in 2017-18 Arsenal would have beaten Chelsea to a place, despite finishing behind them. 

Tottenham would have benefited from UEFA's plans to protect access to the Champions League for established clubs last season
Leicester's lack of pedigree in Europe will cost them
Arsenal would have been propelled back into the lucrative competition in recent years, even though they did not qualify.
Tottenham and Arsenal would have benefited under UEFA's plans in the last three seasons because of their records in Europe, while Leicester City would have lost out

CHAMPION BONUS
Under the rules proposed by UEFA, two clubs each season would be boosted from Europa League and Europa Conference League qualification places into Champions League.

This would apply across Europe, but in reality, it would only be those teams at the very top of UEFA's 400+ ranking that would benefit.

In the Premier League, this would mean any club finishing fifth, sixth or seventh could be propelled into the higher-level competition, based on their UEFA Coefficient ranking.

Two Champions League places would be decided in this way from 2024, under the UEFA proposal.

 

Sportsmail has analysed the European standings and UEFA coefficients for 2019-20, 2018-19 and 2017-18. On this basis, the clubs that would benefit form a Champions League boost would be:

2019-20 Season: Tottenham Hotspur (finished sixth) Roma (finished fifth in Italy)

2018-19 Season: Arsenal (finished fifth) Sevilla (finished sixth in Spain)

2017-18 Season: Arsenal (finished sixth) Sevilla (finished seventh in Spain)   

 

The plan is to supersize the Champions League from 2024, increasing the available revenue by accepting 36 teams instead of 32 and playing 10 'pool' games rather than six group matches. 

But with European performance being rewarded in those extra competition places, a club finishing seventh could leapfrog those in fifth and sixth and hit the jackpot with a bonus Champions League spot. 

Disgruntled top-flight clubs want the Premier League to reflect their fury in an official response through the representative European Leagues.

A senior executive at one of the clubs involved in the talks told The Times: 'There is a strong feeling among many clubs that qualifying for the Champions League should be on sporting merit only, and we are pushing hard for the Premier League to reflect that in its response.

'It would be ludicrous for a team like Leicester to finish fifth and be leapfrogged by the likes of Arsenal two places below them.'

The new rule would be a huge boon for wealthy clubs in England and the other leading teams in the major European leagues, who have a track record of success in international competition.

The system uses UEFA coefficients, which rank clubs according to their European success during the last five years.

It would benefit the likes of Manchester City (currently ranked fifth of all European clubs), Manchester United (6th), Liverpool (9th), Arsenal (10th), Chelsea (13th) and Tottenham (15th), who would have a good chance of promotion to the Chamions League, whenever they slip out of the automatic qualification places.

Those clubs would have a major advantage over the challengers to their Big Six status, such as Leicester City, (whose UEFA coefficient currently ranks them 49th due to their inconsistent appearances in Europe), Wolves (86), West Ham (90), Everton and Aston Villa, who don't even have a rank. 

 

 

The rule would not only apply to English clubs, it would promote the two highest ranked teams in Europa places across the continent.

But since the majority of the clubs in the top 15 coefficient ranking places finish high in their leagues each year and therefore automatically qualify for the Champions, it is likely that an English team or two will often benefit.

Outside of the Premier League, our analysis suggests that Sevilla, (currently eighth in the UEFA coefficient list backed by their great Europa League successes), like Arsenal, would have qualified from a Europa position in 2018-19 and 2017-18.

One of the additional two extra places on offer under the UEFA plan would be awarded to the highest ranked club that finishes as a champion in a league that does not have automatic qualification to the group stage of the Champions League - this would have Ajax this season.

 

The last extra place would be awarded to the country placed fifth in the UEFA rankings, which is often France. 

The plans are seen as UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin's response to the challenge from a rival European Super League.

Pushed by Real Madrid and reportedly supported by Manchester United, the £4.6billion Super League has promised greater wealth and a closed shop for the biggest clubs. 

Fifteen of the wealthiest teams would have protected status in the new league, guaranteeing huge incomes for years to come.

UEFA are believed to have been spooked by the advanced development of the Super League plans when they re-emerged last month, particularly in terms of the legal structures and financial backing.

The proposal by UEFA is opposed by the European Leagues group on the basis that it will undermine competition, not only through the use of the coefficient ranking system, but also because it will create an even greater gap between the continent's super clubs and the rest.

The European Leagues anticipates the enlarged Champions League will command a much greater share of broadcast revenue, which will flow to participating clubs at the expense of TV deals for domestic leagues where clubs will, in contrast, receive less money. 

Clubs with recent history of European success could have a protected route back in    +5
Clubs with recent history of European success could have a protected route back in

Sportsmail has applied the proposed qualification rules to the past three seasons    +5
Sportsmail has applied the proposed qualification rules to the past three seasons

 

UEFA RANKINGS 20-21
1. Bayern Munich

2. Barcelona

3. Juventus

4. Real Madrid

5. Atletico Madrid

6. Manchester City

7. Paris Saint Germain

8. Sevilla

9. Manchester United

10. Liverpool

11. Arsenal

12. Borussia Dortmund

13. Chelsea

14. Porto

15. Tottenham Hotspur

 

They also fear the huge proposed increase in Champions League fixtures from 125 to 225 matches a season would swamp domestic competitions, such as the Carabao Cup.

In a statement last week, the body said: 'The European Leagues have raised strong concerns about more matchdays of such a flexible system in an already very congested calendar. 

'They also questioned the possible impact of access as well as commercial components on the sporting and financial balance of domestic leagues.' 

In a complex negotiation, UEFA has to consult fan groups, as well as the leagues, football associations and the European Club Association (ECA).

The ECA is broadly supportive of the proposals, but discussions are not yet complete.

Ultimately, the decision to proceed rests with UEFA's executive committee.

It is due to decide on its plans at a meeting in the coming weeks, but no date has been set. 

It had hoped to agree the proposal this week, but that has now been pushed back after opposition from the European Leagues and it may not meet until March.

The 55 football European football associations were briefed on the plans on Tuesday, and there were no dissenting voices, Sportsmail has been told.

'There were only endorsements,' said a source involved in the consultation.

The Football Association has refused to comment on any aspects of the proposal. Discussion will continue between the associations and UEFA. 

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26 minutes ago, davieG said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9250577/UEFA-plans-protect-Europes-richest-benefited-Arsenal-Spurs-hurt-Leicester.html

 

REVEALED: Arsenal and Tottenham would have been promoted BACK into the Champions League in recent years under UEFA's new expansion plans... and Chelsea could be big winners too, but it's bad news for Leicester, West Ham and Everton
UEFA's plans to supersize the Champions League from 2024  include protected access to the competition for biggest clubs in Europe, at others' expense
Plan says extra places awarded on UEFA rankings based on European record
Sportsmail analysis suggests in the last three seasons Arsenal and Tottenham would have benefited, but Leicester City would have lost out
Clubs challenging the Big Six, like Everton, Villa and West Ham disadvantaged
By CHARLIE WALKER FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 10:05, 12 February 2021 | UPDATED: 10:05, 12 February 2021

 
UEFA's proposal for a safety net for Europe's biggest clubs if they miss out on Champions League qualification would have propelled Arsenal and Tottenham back into the lucrative competition in recent years, even though they did not qualify.

A group of Premier League clubs outside of the Big Six were infuriated when the top-flight was briefed on the plans last week, and they are now planning to oppose the change to qualification rules.

UEFA are proposing that, from 2024, the top four in the Premier League automatically qualify for the Champions League (as now), while two teams go into the Europa League and a seventh club enter the new Europa Conference League.

But two additional Champions League places, across Europe, would be handed to clubs that only qualify for the EL or ECL - based on their recent performances in European competition.

In an analysis by Sportsmail, Tottenham, last season's sixth-place finishers, would have qualified for this season's competition rather than fifth-place Leicester, and in 2017-18 Arsenal would have beaten Chelsea to a place, despite finishing behind them. 

Tottenham would have benefited from UEFA's plans to protect access to the Champions League for established clubs last season
Leicester's lack of pedigree in Europe will cost them
Arsenal would have been propelled back into the lucrative competition in recent years, even though they did not qualify.
Tottenham and Arsenal would have benefited under UEFA's plans in the last three seasons because of their records in Europe, while Leicester City would have lost out

CHAMPION BONUS
Under the rules proposed by UEFA, two clubs each season would be boosted from Europa League and Europa Conference League qualification places into Champions League.

This would apply across Europe, but in reality, it would only be those teams at the very top of UEFA's 400+ ranking that would benefit.

In the Premier League, this would mean any club finishing fifth, sixth or seventh could be propelled into the higher-level competition, based on their UEFA Coefficient ranking.

Two Champions League places would be decided in this way from 2024, under the UEFA proposal.

 

Sportsmail has analysed the European standings and UEFA coefficients for 2019-20, 2018-19 and 2017-18. On this basis, the clubs that would benefit form a Champions League boost would be:

2019-20 Season: Tottenham Hotspur (finished sixth) Roma (finished fifth in Italy)

2018-19 Season: Arsenal (finished fifth) Sevilla (finished sixth in Spain)

2017-18 Season: Arsenal (finished sixth) Sevilla (finished seventh in Spain)   

 

The plan is to supersize the Champions League from 2024, increasing the available revenue by accepting 36 teams instead of 32 and playing 10 'pool' games rather than six group matches. 

But with European performance being rewarded in those extra competition places, a club finishing seventh could leapfrog those in fifth and sixth and hit the jackpot with a bonus Champions League spot. 

Disgruntled top-flight clubs want the Premier League to reflect their fury in an official response through the representative European Leagues.

A senior executive at one of the clubs involved in the talks told The Times: 'There is a strong feeling among many clubs that qualifying for the Champions League should be on sporting merit only, and we are pushing hard for the Premier League to reflect that in its response.

'It would be ludicrous for a team like Leicester to finish fifth and be leapfrogged by the likes of Arsenal two places below them.'

The new rule would be a huge boon for wealthy clubs in England and the other leading teams in the major European leagues, who have a track record of success in international competition.

The system uses UEFA coefficients, which rank clubs according to their European success during the last five years.

It would benefit the likes of Manchester City (currently ranked fifth of all European clubs), Manchester United (6th), Liverpool (9th), Arsenal (10th), Chelsea (13th) and Tottenham (15th), who would have a good chance of promotion to the Chamions League, whenever they slip out of the automatic qualification places.

Those clubs would have a major advantage over the challengers to their Big Six status, such as Leicester City, (whose UEFA coefficient currently ranks them 49th due to their inconsistent appearances in Europe), Wolves (86), West Ham (90), Everton and Aston Villa, who don't even have a rank. 

 

 

The rule would not only apply to English clubs, it would promote the two highest ranked teams in Europa places across the continent.

But since the majority of the clubs in the top 15 coefficient ranking places finish high in their leagues each year and therefore automatically qualify for the Champions, it is likely that an English team or two will often benefit.

Outside of the Premier League, our analysis suggests that Sevilla, (currently eighth in the UEFA coefficient list backed by their great Europa League successes), like Arsenal, would have qualified from a Europa position in 2018-19 and 2017-18.

One of the additional two extra places on offer under the UEFA plan would be awarded to the highest ranked club that finishes as a champion in a league that does not have automatic qualification to the group stage of the Champions League - this would have Ajax this season.

 

The last extra place would be awarded to the country placed fifth in the UEFA rankings, which is often France. 

The plans are seen as UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin's response to the challenge from a rival European Super League.

Pushed by Real Madrid and reportedly supported by Manchester United, the £4.6billion Super League has promised greater wealth and a closed shop for the biggest clubs. 

Fifteen of the wealthiest teams would have protected status in the new league, guaranteeing huge incomes for years to come.

UEFA are believed to have been spooked by the advanced development of the Super League plans when they re-emerged last month, particularly in terms of the legal structures and financial backing.

The proposal by UEFA is opposed by the European Leagues group on the basis that it will undermine competition, not only through the use of the coefficient ranking system, but also because it will create an even greater gap between the continent's super clubs and the rest.

The European Leagues anticipates the enlarged Champions League will command a much greater share of broadcast revenue, which will flow to participating clubs at the expense of TV deals for domestic leagues where clubs will, in contrast, receive less money. 

Clubs with recent history of European success could have a protected route back in    +5
Clubs with recent history of European success could have a protected route back in

Sportsmail has applied the proposed qualification rules to the past three seasons    +5
Sportsmail has applied the proposed qualification rules to the past three seasons

 

UEFA RANKINGS 20-21
1. Bayern Munich

2. Barcelona

3. Juventus

4. Real Madrid

5. Atletico Madrid

6. Manchester City

7. Paris Saint Germain

8. Sevilla

9. Manchester United

10. Liverpool

11. Arsenal

12. Borussia Dortmund

13. Chelsea

14. Porto

15. Tottenham Hotspur

 

They also fear the huge proposed increase in Champions League fixtures from 125 to 225 matches a season would swamp domestic competitions, such as the Carabao Cup.

In a statement last week, the body said: 'The European Leagues have raised strong concerns about more matchdays of such a flexible system in an already very congested calendar. 

'They also questioned the possible impact of access as well as commercial components on the sporting and financial balance of domestic leagues.' 

In a complex negotiation, UEFA has to consult fan groups, as well as the leagues, football associations and the European Club Association (ECA).

The ECA is broadly supportive of the proposals, but discussions are not yet complete.

Ultimately, the decision to proceed rests with UEFA's executive committee.

It is due to decide on its plans at a meeting in the coming weeks, but no date has been set. 

It had hoped to agree the proposal this week, but that has now been pushed back after opposition from the European Leagues and it may not meet until March.

The 55 football European football associations were briefed on the plans on Tuesday, and there were no dissenting voices, Sportsmail has been told.

'There were only endorsements,' said a source involved in the consultation.

The Football Association has refused to comment on any aspects of the proposal. Discussion will continue between the associations and UEFA. 

If this happens then I am done with football.  Football is a sport firstly and elite competition should mean teams are at the top table on merit, not bank balance or the past.  Real fans do not want this.

 

This will be the death knell of many clubs in England if it happens as there will be less money at the top end of English football to drip down to the lower leagues once actual competition is taken away which this effectively is.  It will be impossible to compete with these teams who constantly have European competition no matter how they do in the league.  What have Spurs ever won to be considered for this...

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7 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

If this happens then I am done with football.  Football is a sport firstly and elite competition should mean teams are at the top table on merit, not bank balance or the past.  Real fans do not want this.

 

This will be the death knell of many clubs in England if it happens as there will be less money at the top end of English football to drip down to the lower leagues once actual competition is taken away which this effectively is.  It will be impossible to compete with these teams who constantly have European competition no matter how they do in the league.  What have Spurs ever won to be considered for this...

Couldn't agree more. It makes me sick. It's already near enough impossible for anyone to get near the mega-rich clubs as it is, but apparently they still need a leg up. This is not sport, it's a charade. What's the point of a football club if it doesn't have a fair competition to participate in? If this happens, football is dead to me.

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Absolutely sickening and it all comes down to business men at fifa/uefa and the likes of John Henry and the Glazers wanting to milk every last penny they can out of football. If this goes ahead then I'm glad Leicester are out of it. If it means we go back to playing Barnsley etc then fine, I don't want anything to do with the disgusting greed and corruption that is at the top of the game and neither will our owners. We've said for a while that they wanted a closed shop and the "big boys" hated us winning the league and fighting at the top of the table and this just proves it. I cant see the fa going for this at all and only 6 teams are likely to vote for it. 

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1 minute ago, Fox92 said:

Can't see it happening. There's been variations of ideas put together over the last decade and nothing has ever happened.

I can see it happening.  Sky and BT for example will want the biggest and best English teams in it every year as they will feel more people will watch and they will be in the competition for longer which gets them a bigger return on their investment.  They are not interested in the sport, just the money and will already have  made this clear to the 'big 6' I am sure.

 

You only have to look at their continued ignoring of us or Everton and West Ham as being in the Title/Top 4 race as it does not fit their agenda.

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3 hours ago, jayfox26 said:

I cant see the fa going for this at all and only 6 teams are likely to vote for it. 

 

4 hours ago, davieG said:

The 55 football European football associations were briefed on the plans on Tuesday, and there were no dissenting voices,

That includes the FA.

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3 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

How was it harder to win?

I guess every game was against a team that had won their National League and getting into the competition with only one entrant per country made it very exclusive.

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54 minutes ago, Foxaholic ME said:

Lets face it Forest  have won it twice when like Villa it was much harder to win

 

8 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

How was it harder to win?

 

2 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

It wasn't it was easier. Look at the teams they had to play on the way to doing it and how few games they needed to win!

It's impossible now as the European Cup competition hasn't been played for since 1992.

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The 'big six' has been created, I'm assuming sky started it but I cant see it ever changing, they will be known as that regardless of where where they finish. 

 

It doesn't really matter until they start getting privileges for being the "big six"

 

Note big six rather than top 6. I don't remember the last time they were the actual top 6. 

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2 hours ago, RowlattsFox said:

The 'big six' has been created, I'm assuming sky started it but I cant see it ever changing, they will be known as that regardless of where where they finish. 

 

It doesn't really matter until they start getting privileges for being the "big six"

 

Note big six rather than top 6. I don't remember the last time they were the actual top 6. 

Rich 6 is more appropriate and looking to get richer at every other club's expense.

 

 

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The whole thing obviously stinks. Sport is a completion, not a closed shop. These willy pullers are ruining football slowly but surely and giving way to maximizing revenues for the few. 
 

If anything like this happens the rest of Premier League should vote to kick them out. Surely that would soon change their mind, though am unsure if a vote such as this could be carried. 

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