The Premier League’s so-called ‘Big Six’ could become part of a new-look Champions League.

[sheffield_fox]

1 hour ago, Nalis said:

Champions league should be based on the 36 teams with the biggest social media presence.

A global survey of fans as to who they would most like to see in the champions league would probably be the best way of maximising profits. 

[Super_horns]

Dortmund fans making their point to UEFA.

 

 

https://talksport.com/football/846524/borussia-dortmund-unveil-banner-protest-uefa-champions-league/

[TJB-fox]

2 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

 

Nonsense. They should just decide on those teams most adept at conning refs with head clutching antics.

Slimy PSG would win that every year 

[HybridFox]

5 hours ago, Nalis said:

Champions league should be based on the 36 teams with the biggest social media presence.

 

4 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

Nonsense. They should just decide who wins based on most likes per player (LPP)

The best corporate rum deals

 

[when_you're_smiling]

 

[los dedos]

1 minute ago, when_you're_smiling said:

 

Was just about to share that myself. 

[ian__marshall]

Aside from the obvious points regarding degradation of the PL brand, and protectionism of the so called big 6, what concerns me is the impact on the transfer market. If the CL teams can't sell between themselves that means all of the top talent is hoarded amongst this protected group keeping them at the top table essentially forever. Not sure how this will sit with players as it essentially locks them in to one team for the remainder of their career whilst reducing their ability to enhance their earning potential as they won't be able to court offers from other clubs who could enhance their financial package. What happens in a situation like we're seeing with Messi currently whereby there is a disagreement between player and club? 

 

Also, if the only pool of players open to the priveledged teams is anyone outside of the elite, it's going to have a huge impact on clubs like ourselves who currently trade on potential. What worries me is that if an Ndidi or Tielemans becomes available these elite sides will just offer silly money either pricing us out of a deal or making it incredibly risky for a team like us as you could potentially end up in a situation where the player doesnt live up to expectations whilst carrying an over inflated wage. In the short to medium term this will be less of a risk to the elite as their cartel will undoubtedly ensure that they are financially secure and can afford to take a punt. 

 

The only thing that could bring the house crashing down is that if the CL teams are reliant on either their academy's or poaching non CL teams they're effectively limiting supply of talent to themselves. Longer term this could push the price of players outside of this group through the roof meaning that whilst their revenues increase their costs will too which then very much becomes a balancing act for these teams. Either increase revenues further (eventually they'll hit a ceiling) or cut costs. 

 

If this proposal does materialise I hope the remaining PL teams, FA, and PL have the courage to remove these teams from all domestic competitions. 

[Blue ROI]

If this ever becomes reality how would clubs like Juventus or Ateltico Madrid cope if they become Brighton, Genoa, VFB Stuttgart etc mid table fodder?

 

They might go crawling back to the domestic campaigns.

[OhYesNdidi]

38 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

Aside from the obvious points regarding degradation of the PL brand, and protectionism of the so called big 6, what concerns me is the impact on the transfer market. If the CL teams can't sell between themselves that means all of the top talent is hoarded amongst this protected group keeping them at the top table essentially forever. Not sure how this will sit with players as it essentially locks them in to one team for the remainder of their career whilst reducing their ability to enhance their earning potential as they won't be able to court offers from other clubs who could enhance their financial package. What happens in a situation like we're seeing with Messi currently whereby there is a disagreement between player and club? 

 

Also, if the only pool of players open to the priveledged teams is anyone outside of the elite, it's going to have a huge impact on clubs like ourselves who currently trade on potential. What worries me is that if an Ndidi or Tielemans becomes available these elite sides will just offer silly money either pricing us out of a deal or making it incredibly risky for a team like us as you could potentially end up in a situation where the player doesnt live up to expectations whilst carrying an over inflated wage. In the short to medium term this will be less of a risk to the elite as their cartel will undoubtedly ensure that they are financially secure and can afford to take a punt. 

 

The only thing that could bring the house crashing down is that if the CL teams are reliant on either their academy's or poaching non CL teams they're effectively limiting supply of talent to themselves. Longer term this could push the price of players outside of this group through the roof meaning that whilst their revenues increase their costs will too which then very much becomes a balancing act for these teams. Either increase revenues further (eventually they'll hit a ceiling) or cut costs. 

 

If this proposal does materialise I hope the remaining PL teams, FA, and PL have the courage to remove these teams from all domestic competitions. 

So a player earning £10k per week at Salzburg wouldn’t be able to join Manchester City who would be willing to pay him £80k p/W? Surely there’s laws in place for that? / in terms of player trade as apposed to the contract they’ve signed with the club 

Edited 10 March 2021 by OhYesNdidi

[reynard]

9 minutes ago, Blue ROI said:

If this ever becomes reality how would clubs like Juventus or Ateltico Madrid cope if they become Brighton, Genoa, VFB Stuttgart etc mid table fodder?

 

They might go crawling back to the domestic campaigns.

Seems like there is some real traction to this and may well happen now. The transfer ban between teams is as pointed out seriously bad news for clubs like us. I would 100% like to see these teams kicked out of all domestic competitions but doubt any domestic organisation would have the courage to do this.

[ian__marshall]

7 minutes ago, OhYesNdidi said:

So a player earning £10k per week at Salzburg wouldn’t be able to join Manchester City who would be willing to pay him £80k p/W? Surely there’s laws in place for that? / in terms of player trade as apposed to the contract they’ve signed with the club 

Completely agree. Contract law would have to supercede the rules. Of course they could implement a tiered system whereby you can't trade within the same tier, but again going back to the Messi point I highlighted this is surely a restraint of trade as it effectively locks the player into a team with no escape. No entirely convinced their ideas work in practice. 

[davieG]

....none elite clubs wouldn't be able to afford them even if the player was happy to drop out of the elite closed shop.

 

I see it being more directed at academy players enabling them to round up all the best potential even more than they do now and those players being stuck there.

[Basildon Fox]

49 minutes ago, davieG said:

....none elite clubs wouldn't be able to afford them even if the player was happy to drop out of the elite closed shop.

 

I see it being more directed at academy players enabling them to round up all the best potential even more than they do now and those players being stuck there.

What are the chances that a draft and trade system akin once more to the American system is introduced.  Would not be suprised at all myself.

[Sly]

1 hour ago, OhYesNdidi said:

So a player earning £10k per week at Salzburg wouldn’t be able to join Manchester City who would be willing to pay him £80k p/W? Surely there’s laws in place for that? / in terms of player trade as apposed to the contract they’ve signed with the club 

I stated this in an earlier response. It’s silly. 
 

They’d just setup a feeder team like PSG “B” for example. Or in the case of Spain, pay the player the £200,000,000 for him to buy put his contract, who can then join PSG on a free transfer. 
 

Unworkable, unethical and a restrictive of trade. 

[Sly]

1 hour ago, ian__marshall said:

Completely agree. Contract law would have to supercede the rules. Of course they could implement a tiered system whereby you can't trade within the same tier, but again going back to the Messi point I highlighted this is surely a restraint of trade as it effectively locks the player into a team with no escape. No entirely convinced their ideas work in practice. 

Can you imagine if they had a player like Alexis Sanchez, who’s career has nose dived as well. They couldn’t offload him if he was on £500k a week. No one outside the “elite” could pick up that tab. 

[Clever Fox]

2 hours ago, OhYesNdidi said:

So a player earning £10k per week at Salzburg wouldn’t be able to join Manchester City who would be willing to pay him £80k p/W? Surely there’s laws in place for that? / in terms of player trade as apposed to the contract they’ve signed with the club 

Yes this is a non starter as it would amount to restraint of trade for players. Which is pretty much why we have Contracts in the first place.

The Clubs should have challenged the Bosman ruling at the time, which failed to acknowledge any investment clubs had in players.

This was a big mistake by the Clubs and now they are trying a different way to control players and Agents. Who are a parasite on the game.

Not sure what they can do now.

[mozartfox]

The Elite Teams float these unacceptable versions first, then when the Small Teams kick-off and criticize certain aspects of the proposed plans, the Elite Crew give in on these and in fact end up more or less where they want to be at the outset . It's a game. 

 

I am struggling how they think this 'closed' shop approach based upon ancient history is going to work though.  Derby and the Trees have had more European Success than a lot Team Lined up for this new UCL.  Tottenham have never been Champions of the Premier League.

 

Our EPL win has started this whole thing. How dare little old LCFC take some of our cash.

 

 

[keithweller]

2 hours ago, ian__marshall said:

Completely agree. Contract law would have to supercede the rules. Of course they could implement a tiered system whereby you can't trade within the same tier, but again going back to the Messi point I highlighted this is surely a restraint of trade as it effectively locks the player into a team with no escape. No entirely convinced their ideas work in practice. 

I'm assuming they are just banning transfers in contract to 'control costs' as Agnelli put it.

 

Presumably you'd see 1-2 year contracts for these elite players who'd either renegotiate or sign for another one when it expires?

 

Either way, absolutely awful idea

[davieG]

1 hour ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

What are the chances that a draft and trade system akin once more to the American system is introduced.  Would not be suprised at all myself.

I can't imagine for one minute these elite teams passing over the opportunity to scoop up all the best potential. They're all about building a wall around themselves to keep all the money they can. Having more of the potential enables them to sell off the surplus for a profit they're not going to give that up.

[davieG]

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/andrea-agnellis-idea-for-an-18-team-premier-league-wont-help-competition-it-will-kill-ambition

 

Andrea Agnelli's idea for an 18-team Premier League won't help competition – it will kill ambition
By Richard Jolly 6 hours ago

Juventus chair Andrea Agnelli's proposals would worsen the Premier League's already imperfect competitive balance, argues Richard Jolly

 
Andrea Agnelli was looking at remodelling the footballing calendar. It may yet entail promoting clubs into an expanded Champions League on grounds of historical achievement, flouting sporting integrity and flying in the face of concepts of a meritocracy to give some of the additional four places to those who, conveniently, happen to be big, well-supported and whose presence tends to boost television rights. Then the chairman of both Juventus and the European Club Association seemed to turn his attention to reducing the Premier League. Clubs in England, he noted, can play 53 domestic games, compared to just 43 in Germany.

“We do think that currently, for competitive balance purposes, 20 teams in leagues - it's not just the big leagues, but in many leagues - there are too many,” he said.

The temptation is to suggest a 20-team Serie A has insufficient competitive balance, given that Juventus have won nine consecutive Scudetti in a time when five clubs have been champions of England, or that Ligue 1 lacks enough, given that Paris Saint-Germain have won seven of the last eight league titles. Or perhaps to argue that the Bundesliga’s status as an 18-club league scarcely brought more competitive balance when Bayern won the title eight years in a row, often by large margins. If each was insufficiently competitive too often, it was in part a product of Champions League revenues.   

And the point could be made that, with fewer teams, leagues such as Greece’s, Ukraine’s and Scotland’s are scarcely bywords for competitive balance. The chances are, however, that Agnelli was not thinking of any of them. His greater wish was to clear more of the calendar for Champions League games.

It is not English exceptionalism to say that the extra clubs, the ones Agnelli seems to suggest should just be demoted to give the superpowers to play each other, contribute much. Sheffield United may be dismissed as one of the worst teams in Premier League history now, but they have still won at Old Trafford. Last season, they beat Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham and went unbeaten in London.

Perhaps, as they came ninth then, they were not who Agnelli would have packed off back to the Championship. But consider their peers. West Brom may have been largely dismal this season but have still drawn with all four of England’s Champions League representatives. Fulham have just won at Anfield, emulating Brighton and Burnley; the Seagulls also beat Spurs, the Clarets also defeated Arsenal.

Look at previous seasons. In 2011/12, Manchester City won the title on goal difference in part because Manchester United lost at home to relegated Blackburn; in 2009/10, Chelsea won it by one point when United’s early-season defeat to promoted and relegated Burnley came at a cost.

And it is worth noting who the 19th and 20th clubs can be. Some of the division’s more endearing and improbable stories are facilitated by the Championship play-offs, which perhaps would be scrapped or altered. Its winners can include those long exiled from the top flight like Burnley (when they came up in 2009), Blackpool, Swansea and Huddersfield; recent winners include one of England’s grandest clubs, in Aston Villa, who could now qualify for Europe this season. If the division is chopped of two representatives, then its smallest members look most susceptible, but Wigan, for example, offered much in their eight-season stay.

Or if three-up, three-down were retained, then the clubs in 16th and 17th would go; last year that meant West Ham and Villa, two who have improved and illuminated the division this year. It underlines why everyone outside the ‘big six’ has no incentive to vote to reduce the Premier League; turkeys famously don’t vote for Christmas.

But it is also part of the dynamic of English football that, in part because of its history and their size, there are around 50 clubs who can imagine themselves in the Premier League (indeed, 49 have played there) if they get a season or two at a lower level very right. Some are now found in League One; the odd one, like Bolton, in League Two. 

Reducing the division, as Agnelli seems to want, comes at a cost to hope and ambition; it could consign some to permanent exile, with the Championship fattened by clubs who would otherwise be in the top flight. It would deny them of the sort of highlights that can be cherished for decades (Huddersfield, for instance, may have gone down with 16 points, but only after staying up at Chelsea and beating United the previous year). 

The Premier League has an imperfect competitive balance, but the £100 million each participant receives in television revenue gives them a chance; more, some would say, than some clubs in predictable Champions League pools have. Reforming that may have its merits, given it has often been a competition of two halves, a dull group stage followed by often outstanding knockout ties, in recent years, though Agnelli’s Swiss-style system looks more like a licence to print money than one designed to improve the early part of the competition.

But his interventions into domestic leagues look devoid of intellectual or sporting merit. Perhaps his most positive contribution to inject competitive balance was to sack Massimiliano Allegri to give others more of a chance of winning Serie A.

[ARM1968]

Even with this league idea one team would win it and likely dominate so everyone else would just be also rans. Staying in their own league gives them the opportunity to be champions at home AND a shot at the CL. If they say and thought about this I can’t believe many would see the merit. 

[dynamark]

 

Is agnelli from the fiat family who didnt have the sense let the makers of the italian job have fiats so they drove minis instead ? Im sure he makes a very nice spag bol

[Lineker's Left Foot]

Everton have a game in hand on us but I cannot work out who it is as their fixture list, like ours, only gives ten fixtures to go??

[OhYesNdidi]

2 minutes ago, Lineker's Left Foot said:

Everton have a game in hand on us but I cannot work out who it is as their fixture list, like ours, only gives ten fixtures to go??

Villa away

Edited 10 March 2021 by OhYesNdidi

[st albans fox]

15 minutes ago, Lineker's Left Foot said:

Everton have a game in hand on us but I cannot work out who it is as their fixture list, like ours, only gives ten fixtures to go??

 

12 minutes ago, OhYesNdidi said:

Villa away

This may the only time that Everton are mentioned in the European super league thread ......